The Awakening of the GOP?

February 5, 2010 at 2:00 pm 195 comments

by Brian Leubitz

As I was perusing Reason Magazine, writing my previous post, I recalled something I had read at the website a few years back. In fact, during the 2008 election season when Prop 8 was still an open question.

It was an article by former Congressman Tom Campbell in opposition to Prop 8. Campbell announced that he would be running for Governor a few months later, only to switch to the Senate race a few weeks ago. But despite the fact that he’s running in a very conservative party here in California, he decided to publicly oppose the scourge of Prop 8.

Same-sex couples already exist, so do different-sex couples. Californians in these relationships are our firefighters, nurses, police officers, and small business owners. They pay taxes and contribute to our economy and our society. Californians come in different shapes and sizes; that’s what’s made our state great. If two people want to make their relationship more stable, and commit more deeply to each other, that can only be good for California. That’s true whether the couple is gay or straight. …

Gay couples are asking for a chance to play by the rules. We can give them that chance. For those of us who are proud of our party’s and our state’s reputation for fairness and against discrimination, our choice is very clear: No on Proposition 8.

While he’s not campaigning on this issue in his Senate campaign, he’s not running away from the issue either. He acknowledges his support of gay rights and marriage equality when asked. It’s not likely to net him all that many votes in the primary, where he’s facing a challenge from a right-wing state assemblyman, Chuck DeVore, and the fired CEO of H-P, Carly Fiorina. But the fact is that he’s made the decision that it was worthwhile, or at least not too damaging to hide his real opinion.

So, what does this mean for politics in the future? Is there a coming wave of gay-friendly Republicans? The likely answer is yes and no. For the next ten to twenty years, people like Megan McCain and Tom Campbell will be hanging out there by themselves, too scared of the Christian Right. But eventually, more and more Republicans, will see there are more votes with equality than with bigotry.

Despite my position as a strong progressive, I think it improves our democracy when our the LGBT community has a choice in who to support politically. When it comes to electable candidates, for too long, our community has had to choose between abhorrent (the Republicans) and mildly tolerant (the Dems.) Even today, Campbell’s position on marriage equality is far better than most Democrats. It’s about time that both parties start competing for our votes rather than using us as a scapegoat or taking us for granted.

Entry filed under: Uncategorized.

The Real Threat to Religious Liberty Hiding from Sunlight

195 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Bill  |  February 5, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    I am afraid that Tom Campbell has failed the GOP’s ‘purity test’ and therefore, Republicans will say he is not really a Republican.

    You know, him being a compassionate human being, and all…

    Reply
  • 2. dieter  |  February 5, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    This clip says it all…LOL

    go grannies!!!

    Reply
    • 3. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:36 pm

      Amen on that one, Dieter! Guess this one is a lesson in why you don’t piss grannies off, isn’t it?

      Reply
    • 4. Ronnie  |  February 5, 2010 at 4:39 pm

      haha..Sarah just put this on another thread….

      I don’t know whether to be scared of them or be one for Halloween…heheh

      Reply
  • 5. waxr  |  February 5, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    “Californians come in different shapes and sizes.”

    That is the campaign line to take the next time ssm is on the ballot.

    Reply
    • 6. Bill  |  February 5, 2010 at 4:09 pm

      Same-sex marraige should never appear on any ballot ever again. Bigoted heterosexuals really do not have the right to do what they are doing. They are simply using force to acheive their immoral goals. They have simply agreed to disobey the Constitution where their LGTB children are concerned.

      It is Unconstitutional for complete strangers to be voting on another human being’s civil rights.

      This trial is the first of many steps which will establish that.

      Reply
      • 7. Ronnie  |  February 5, 2010 at 6:08 pm

        Maybe if they see this….it will simplify things:

        Reply
      • 8. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 5, 2010 at 6:26 pm

        Once again, Ronnie! You done good! I am proud of you, young man! Keep up the god work!!!

        Reply
  • 9. Bill  |  February 5, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    I hereby officially suggest that everyone here in our little family should agree from this point forward to COMPLETELY IGNORE KAY MOORE 100%.

    Kay has a plethora of web sites that she (or he) can visit that will keep her the superstar she (or he) is in her own mind.

    But the fact that she (or he) comes to a web site where LGTB people turn to each other for support and to help each other out, in an attempt to undermine those people, I feel, morally excludes her from warranting ANY recognition here on our web site.

    This has become a special place for us. Kay Moore can sense this.

    And she has only come here to destroy our hope and to try and make us feel bad about ourselves, when the person she (or he) is really feeling bad about is herself. (or himself)

    I believe that is reason enough for us to decide as a group that she has no business being here, other then to try and further degrade us.

    Of course, we can not stop her from posting. However, if each and every one of us agree to COMPLETELY IGNORE HER, she loses her voice here.

    Besides, it is clear that she has nothing intelligent to offer anyhow. instead, she chooses to kick people when they are down in an attempt to raise herself up. A fine example of morality?

    Morality indeed, Kay Moore.
    Morality indeed.

    PLEASE SIGN THE PLEDGE:

    I hereby solemnly swear that from this point forward, I will not respond to any of Kay Moore’s attempts to kick the LGTB community when it is down. By ’signing’ below, I acknowledge that Kay Moore’s behavior on this web site crosses a line of morality that I as a member of the LGTB community do not agree with and can no longer support.

    Signed,
    Bill

    Reply
    • 10. Bill  |  February 5, 2010 at 2:27 pm

      (I carried this over from the last thread, as we ALL know she’ll be back!)

      Reply
      • 11. dieter  |  February 5, 2010 at 2:44 pm

        She may not come back. I hear her mother is one of those religious folks arrested in Haiti for KIDNAPPING innocent children in attempt to sell them to get herself out of debt.

        Reply
      • 12. Dave T  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:08 pm

        Can we add George to the pledge?

        Regardless, I’ll sign that :-)

        Dave

        Reply
    • 13. Frijondi  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:34 pm

      Signed. She and George aren’t here to have an intelligent discussion; they’re more like vampires coming back again and again to feed.

      Reply
    • 14. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:39 pm

      I hereby solemnly swear that from this point forward, I will not respond to any of Kay Moore’s attempts to kick the LGTB community when it is down. By ’signing’ below, I acknowledge that Kay Moore’s behavior on this web site crosses a line of morality that I as a member of the LGTB community do not agree with and can no longer support.

      Signed,

      Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)

      Reply
    • 15. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:41 pm

      @ Dave T (#10) Yes, but when we do, we need to write “Team George.” After all, that is one handle for a team who have signed up to be at the central comuter at specific times on specific days, much like signing up for a slot on a prayer vigil list. Consider my signature to be on it.

      Reply
      • 16. David Kimble  |  February 5, 2010 at 4:23 pm

        yeppers, sign me up too! I am sorry for my rant about Islam, but I have found those few that I know to be very welcoming.
        Love,
        David

        Reply
    • 17. rpx  |  February 6, 2010 at 3:03 pm

      Okay if Fiona will stop fereding the trolls I’ll agree also.

      Reply
      • 18. fiona64  |  February 7, 2010 at 8:58 am

        I have been willfully disregarding Kay and George. One is a Randian (pointless to discuss anything) and the other is a chauvinist (same matter).

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
      • 19. David Kimble  |  February 7, 2010 at 9:08 am

        Yes, I think it is wise to just ignore them. If you don’t feed them, they will soon realize they don’t have an audience here and leave.
        Love,
        David

        Reply
      • 20. Ronnie  |  February 7, 2010 at 9:33 am

        Hey fiona64, If you notice that on the one thread I have been willfully ignoring her/it but talking over her/it and not mentioning her/it by name and yet she/it still ASSumes I’m talking to her/it and about her/it…I mean really the ego…its quite amusing when a Bigot unconsciously ASSumes the world revolves around them and that everybody is talking about them as if they are any importance to that persons existence other then to make that person sick to their stomack….you know what I mean.

        It’s like when I’m in public and two Latin-Ameican Girls are talking to each other in spanish about how Hot I am and ASSume that I don’t know any spanish…but then I go up to them and say…”Thank you for the compliments ladies….but Yo soy gay…Encantado de conocerte!”…..I don’t speak much Spanish(un pequeno muy poco) next to none actually but I understand the basics and I have my iPhone to translate…lol….but in this case I was not directly talking to or about said K.I.A…….do you see what I’m getting at Fiona64?

        Reply
  • 21. David Kimble  |  February 5, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Did anyone see my comments comparing her to the Nazi’s – it was deliciously evil, I know, but sometimes I just can’t help myself. However, getting back to the story at hand…
    I believe it is about time that we stopped getting pacification from our elected representatives. The comment was made, during the trial that we have on our side – Feinstein or Boxer (sorry, I can’t remember which one it was) – someone made the comment “Can we give them back?” Before voting I always study the candidates closely and see how they stand on issues that are dear to me. Another point, I feel is worthy of making, so many of candidates in the electorate promise our community “real change”, if they are elected, yet we have yet to see many of them come through on a promise. I personally miss the “Harvey Milk’s” from the 1970’s and 1980’s – those candidates who were passionate about a cause and would fight for the LGBT community.

    Reply
    • 22. Bill  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:05 pm

      The only problem there is that many Democratic candidates tell us they support LGTB rights when they have their hands out for money, only to be silent on our behalf after we have given them said money.

      Reply
      • 23. David Kimble  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:07 pm

        Then I suggest, when they run again (they always do) – do not support them or send them any money.

        Reply
      • 24. Mouse  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:31 pm

        So when the choice is between a feckless liar who says he supports you but then does nothing, and a bigot who actively campaigns against you… ?

        Reply
      • 25. Frijondi  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:40 pm

        Every time the DNC calls me asking for a donation, I tell them the Democratic Party won’t be getting another dime from me until it starts taking a stronger stand on gay rights. When the phone banker acts surprised, I point out all the party’s recent sins of omission, especially in Maine.

        What really makes them perk up their ears is when I tell them I would happily vote a mixed ticket, if a pro-gay Republican candidate should emerge. I am so glad Tom Campbell’s back in politics.

        Reply
      • 26. LoriH  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:58 pm

        The DNC calls me on the average of twice a month and each time I’ve told them I am not contributing any more money until I see satisfactory progress on the repeal of DOMA and DADT. The last time they called I added marriage equality to my list of demands and told them that the money I would have contributed to the DNC I’ve sent to groups like Lambda Legal, HRC, Equality California and the Courage Campaign,

        Reply
      • 27. Andrea  |  February 5, 2010 at 5:43 pm

        @Frijondi: +1 on being glad Tom Campbell is back.

        Reply
      • 28. Andrea  |  February 5, 2010 at 6:23 pm

        PS – The California GOP has opened its primary to independent voters. Registering “Decline to State” will leave you the option to request a Republican ballot, so you can help out the Log Cabin and Liberty Caucus candidates if you want to. And of course you can vote for whomever you wish in the general election no matter how you register.

        Reply
    • 29. fiona64  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:05 pm

      Dear David:

      I really wish there was some sort of a central figure, like Harvey (or Cesar Chavez with the farmer workers), around whom LGBT people and allies could gather; it would indicate a centralized, working organization.

      Right now, it all feels so very scattered. I’m not saying we need a figurehead, really, but a *face.*

      Love,
      Fiona

      Reply
      • 30. David Kimble  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:17 pm

        Yes, I agree, Fiona and I don’t know of anyone, who fits the bill either, but maybe we should keep our eyes out for someone, who could fit the bill. To give you an idea of the inane politicians we have representing us currently. About a year ago, I had a friend, who lived in Russia, who wanted to come to America. I sent a long letter to Diane Feinstein about him and what were the possibilities. In return, I received a letter, which didn’t even answer my questions posed to her – it had all the feel and looks of a canned response letter. Then to boot, she aske me for money for her campaign! I wrote her off as an ally at that time.
        Love,
        David

        Reply
      • 31. PDXAndrew  |  February 5, 2010 at 9:26 pm

        Fiona, as always, you’re spot-on in your observation… I’m tempted to nominate YOU to be that “face” :)

        Reply
      • 32. fiona64  |  February 6, 2010 at 8:25 am

        PDXAndrew, I’m not sure a middle-aged straight woman is the right face for a marriage equality argument … but I thank you for your kind words.

        Love,
        Fiona (who is originally from PDX)

        Reply
      • 33. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 6, 2010 at 8:35 am

        And, Fiona, what would prevent you from being the right face for marriage equality? You have said more than once that you feel your marriage would actually be strengthened by granting marriage equality to ALL Americans. AndI agree with PDXAndrew thta you would make a great face for the movement. YOu are ver lovely, you are smart, you are strong, you are courageous, and your strength is increased by your convictions and your willingness to stand up for them. You would be PERFECT!

        Reply
      • 34. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 8:50 am

        I concor….but we still need a Milk(RIP)

        Reply
    • 35. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:43 pm

      Thank you, David. I am so glad to know that I am not the only one who misses the Harvey Milks of this world.

      Reply
      • 36. David Kimble  |  February 7, 2010 at 10:05 am

        I would gladly accept the nomination, but feel a need to point-out, I have not been well, since my diagnosis of prostate cancer, but hey, it could be fun!
        Love,
        David

        Reply
    • 37. Bill  |  February 5, 2010 at 4:17 pm

      “So when the choice is between a feckless liar who says he supports you but then does nothing, and a bigot who actively campaigns against you… ?”

      Then go and spend that money at iTunes or Kmart or Dolce & Friggin’ Gabanna.

      At least you’ll get something for your money besides lies and immorality.

      I gave a very large donation to the DNC before the election. I gave that money on faith toward promises that were made to me by our candidate. And I want my money back!!!!

      I decided that from that election forward, I will never again give to a political cause of any kind. I will support organizations that DIRECTLY benefit the LGTB community, but NEVER AGAIN to a political campaign or to try and stop the Religious attacks of me at the ballot box. It is wasted money, in my opinion.

      Reply
      • 38. Ronnie  |  February 5, 2010 at 4:57 pm

        Dolce and Gabanna, Fendi and Ladonna….Sharing may be caring……But they don’t care about me!

        I couldn’t help myself

        Reply
  • 39. David Kimble  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Here is my response to her,
    “As to the Al Qaeda terrorists, they don’t need to “hide” behind Islam… the Koran provides for martyrdom against paganism which is precisely how Islamic terrorists represent their cause. It is not a problem with Islam or someone hiding behind it… it is a problem of their justification being highly plausible to the majority of adherents to their faith.”

    Kay, the quote I have included with your post I do take objection to on the grounds that most of the Islamic world ar peaceful; to paint them in this light is really no better than what Hitler did with the Jews during WWII. \

    I have some very dear friends, who are of the Islamic faith and I have had long discussions with them about just such topics. The reality, as explained to me, there are radicals in all religions and Bin Laden is just one of those radicals.

    Another point I wanted to make is that at one time, Osama Bin Laden was an ally of the US and he only turned, when our government “hung him out to dry”, as it were following some CIA covert operations in Pakistan.
    Love,
    David

    Reply
    • 40. Roger  |  February 6, 2010 at 1:42 am

      Careful, Kay. There is a descendant of the Prophet among us, and he repudiates the lies you tell about Islam.

      Reply
    • 41. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 6, 2010 at 8:03 am

      Amen, David! I, too, know many people who are of the Islamic faith, either those I have worked with in the past, or gone to school with, or met through other various activities. They took the time to sit down with me and explain the Quran to me, and what the passages meant. Yes, the Quran does justify holy war, or Jihad, but most Muslims agree that the event of 9/11 were NOT justifie by the quran, and never will be. It was my Muslim friends who informed me that the individuals responsible for 9/11 and theother acts since, are not TRUE Muslims, but only radicals who want to hide behind the Islamic faith, much like those who call themselves “conservative Americans,” yet refuse to realize that if you are a conservative, and an American, you do not want the government in your bedroom, or anywhere else in your home, and that by forcing the passage of Prop h8, tey are putting the government right square in the middle of EVERYONE’S home, because with this, if the government decides to check up on someone to see if they are violating Prop h8, they willl then have the right to storm into your house to make sure that the couple who live there are indeed an opposite sex couple who are engaging in heterosexual activities. Bet Team George and KM didn’t think about that one, did they?

      Reply
      • 42. David Kimble  |  February 7, 2010 at 9:27 am

        Thank you all for realizing the truth. It is only when the myths are dispelled and the dust settles will we see the fruits of our labors. It has been my experience most of these “Christians” (and I use the word loosely, since I find little if anything Christian about their views) are content to go to Church every Sunday and be spoon-fed, what the Bible says and not question anything they are being told. It has also been my experience that some, if not most, of these same people do an egrious sin, when they espouse “love they neighbor”, yet in the same breath condemn us, for being who we were born to be. I know I was born gay – when I was in High School and the rest of the boys were talking about “Sue” and called her hot, I did not share their views. I have never had a “wet dream” about a girl in my life, just others of the same sex.
        Love, David

        Reply
      • 43. Ronnie  |  February 7, 2010 at 9:44 am

        I know what you mean David K….When I was younger I tried to watch straight porn thinking that It would make me straight but all I did was focus on the guy and wish that that Betch would shut up…especially my freshmen year of college (the first school i went too)…Some of the guys and I were watching heterosexual porn….and I fell asleep….My friend woke me up and said if you want to watch gay porn we can….first I was shocked…and then I was like you would do that?…..He said and I quote,”Hey even gay guys need to get off too right?” (we were not doing that, just watching, I don’t know why) I was shocked….SHOCKED!!!!….lol

        Reply
      • 44. David Kimble  |  February 7, 2010 at 9:59 am

        Gosh, that is great! Your straight friends offered to show you “gay porn” – WOW, I think we have come a long way, but we still need to get equal rights, which I am certain this case has established beyond any reasonable doubt.
        Love,
        David

        Reply
      • 45. Ronnie  |  February 7, 2010 at 10:09 am

        I agree….especially since Now we know that Judge Walker is Gay….I mean its the Gay Agenda….the the…The Gay Agenda!!!!…Kit-Kat Bars must be going crazy with commercial ideas….LMAO!

        Reply
      • 46. David Kimble  |  February 7, 2010 at 10:31 am

        Thanx, Ronnie, my sentiments exactly! ROFLMAO
        Love,
        David

        Reply
  • 47. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    And let’s not forget:

    Ted Olson

    Jerry Sanders, mayor of San Diego

    Margaret Hoover, FOX News contributor

    Steve Schmidt, chief strategist of John McCain’s presidential campaign

    Bill Baroni, New Jersey State Senator – in the recent NY and NJ senate votes, the only Republican to vote in favor of marriage equality

    Reply
  • 48. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Brain, you are so right! It is about time that BOTH parties begin to take us seriously and see the truth about us–that we are law-abding, tax-paying citizens who deserve a fair chance to play by the rules. People who deserve the right to have LEGAL, CIVIL Marriage and full recognition of the validity of our commitment to each other. Then, and ONLY THEN, will we truly become first class citizens in the country in which we were born and raised, and now live. At the same time, it is up to us to continue coming out of the closets, to continue refusing to hide who we are and who we love, to refuse to be trodden down like specks of dirt. In short, it is up to us to band together as brothers and sisters and stand up proudly for ourselves. This includes those of us who are veterans coming out in uniform with any and all decorations proudly worn, to prove to those who refuse to acknowledge us, that we can and do serve honorably and with valor in all branches of the armed forces. We need to start a new series of pride parades that focus, not on the outre segments only, but focus on the couples, the families, and the jobs we hold. In short, we need to organize events where we show up in whatever our working attire is, including briefcases and laptops if that is part of it. We need to be seen, we need to be eard, and we need to do it as a community. We need to do it en masse. There is strength in numbers. And we all need to not only register to vote, but get our butts to the polls in every election, big and small, and exercise that right to vote. More of us need to run for political office in our communities, local, county, state, and national positions. We need to increase our visibility and our activism. We need to leave the silence behind, once and for all.

    Reply
    • 49. Ronnie  |  February 5, 2010 at 5:01 pm

      I kinda getting tired of crying I want my rights too….now I’m like….GIVE ME MY FRIKIN RIGHTS!!!! OR YOU WILL PAY…my cell phone bill…I’m broke…shit!

      Reply
      • 50. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 5, 2010 at 5:48 pm

        You are so like your “adpoted father”.

        Reply
      • 51. Ronnie  |  February 5, 2010 at 5:55 pm

        heheh….Richard A. Walter…..<3…Daddy!!!!!!

        Reply
      • 52. PDXAndrew  |  February 5, 2010 at 9:34 pm

        Great… Now I’ve got that Moving Pictures song, “what about me” stuck in my head…
        What about me?
        It isn’t fair
        I’ve had enough, now I want my share
        Can’t you see, I wanna live
        But you just take more than you give

        Reply
  • 53. David Kimble  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    “At the same time, it is up to us to continue coming out of the closets, to continue refusing to hide who we are and who we love, to refuse to be trodden down like specks of dirt.”

    Yes, exactly, higher visibility does improve our chances considerably. Yet, most of us recognize there are those individuals, who cannot come out of the closet, albeit for personal reasons, family, etc. Yet for these people I would encourage them to at least make an attempt – the biggest fear many have is not being accepted by friends and family. To these people I would say, if people are truly your friends, they will be supportive and understanding.
    I want to take a minute and share a personal story that happened to me, when I still lived in Washington State. I had a friend, who lived a few houses down from me and I was afraid of telling him for fear I would lose his friendship. Joe was a pipefitter at WPPSS (Washington Public Power Supply System) Nuclear plant #2. Finally, one day, I got up the courage to tell him I was gay and to my relief, he told me, he had always known, but was just waiting for me to tell him. He and I are still good friends to this day and we talk on the phone several times a year. He is married and has two boys and lives in Spokane, now.
    Love,
    David

    Reply
    • 54. fiona64  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:49 pm

      Dear David:

      Thank you for telling your story. I have mentioned that one of the soldiers who worked for me remained closeted until he mustered out. Well, his partner is still not out to family and friends; he tells people that J. is his roommate.

      I understand that there are people who feel that they cannot be out, and it was a real education to learn from my LGBT friends that it is not like taking off a band-aid. I would hope that there is *one* person that a LGBT person can trust to tell the truth; it saddens me that such might not be the case.

      Love,
      Fiona

      Reply
      • 55. David Kimble  |  February 5, 2010 at 3:56 pm

        I dunno, maybe it’s just me, but living a lie has never been something I have been comfortable doing, yet I do recognize there are circumstances where my openess and candor come into conflict with others. I learned a long time ago, if they are truly my friends and family they will understand and if they are not, then perphaps I am better off not knowing them. By the way everyone I have told has been remarkably supportive (save my mother and brother), but then they are both Mormon.
        Love,
        David

        Reply
      • 56. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:37 am

        Yes, I am on Facebook.
        Love,
        David

        Reply
  • 57. David Kimble  |  February 5, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    oops, forgot to mention the midnight Mormon callers that were less than friendly, to the say the least…
    Love,
    David

    Reply
    • 58. Bill  |  February 5, 2010 at 4:27 pm

      Mormons are just morons with an extra ‘M’

      If your Mom & Brother chose religion over their own flesh and blood, might I suggest you’re better off?

      If having a gay son & brother isn’t enough to snap them out of their religious coma, I fear nothing will.

      They raised you and grew up with you, so clearly, they know you are a kind and special human being, and not the evil demon that religions teach, yet they still choose their religion.

      That’s kinda dumb.

      We’ll adopt you, David!!!!

      Reply
      • 59. Sheryl  |  February 6, 2010 at 12:00 am

        Please do not brush all Mormons with the same brush. I am Mormon and I support equal rights for all. My son is gay and is the light of my life. I do not understand parents who disown their kids (or other family members) due to sexual orientation.

        As I’ve taught my son, you will find all types anywhere (work, neighbors, church, family). some we want to associate with, others we don’t and not because of sexual orientation but because of the type of person they are (honest, caring, etc).

        I do not believe that God will judge by sexual orientation but rather by our character.

        Only wish the leaders had kept the Golden Rule on this issue.

        Sheryl

        Reply
      • 60. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 6, 2010 at 8:08 am

        And David, Sheryl is right. Don’t paint all mormons with the same brush. I met a young man who is bisexual, and was raised as a mormon, and he was really having a struggle with how to reconcile his faith and his sexual orientation. We talked, and he finally came to the conclusion that he would go through his process of coming out slowly, beginning with the people he felt the safest with being the first ones he told. Once he felt he had a large enough safety net of people, he told his parents. The reaction he got was totally different from what he expected. He was one of the lucky ones. And I would also like to take this opportunity to repeat from my heart what Bill said. Yes, we will adopt you, David!!!

        Reply
      • 61. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 9:19 am

        Thank you Sheryl, I do understand completely what you said about painting all Mormons with the same brush. I have some friends, who are Mormon, who still live in Washington State that are great. I am a returned missionary from the Southern California, Anaheim mission – I served for two years 1973 – 1975 – the entire time I was on my mission I had feelings for some of the other missionaries in the field. As a matter of fact, one day, while I was zone leader in the Deaf Mission, another one of the missionaries kissed me on the lips – I was aghast, since I thought I did a very good job of hiding who I was from anyone else. I did not return his advances and said nothing to him about it to him or anyone else. It was only after I had returned from my mission that I began to explore who I was sexually – it was a journey, as it is wtih all in our community. While I was on my mission I lived a lie and that didn’t feel at all good and I again had thoughts of sucide. After returning home I decided to end the lies and tell them who I really was – it was then, I had midnight callers with baseball bats that beat the S**T of out me, thinking they could somehow change me with violence. (btw, I did recognize at lest one of my attackers as being from the Mormon Church by a very distinctive class ring he wore and since I had spoken to no one else about any of this – I will let you draw your own conclusions) It had taken me years to be able to admit to others, who I am and I have never been apologetic for being who I was born to be. My life has not been without troubles (I think it safe to say no one’s life is without troubles).
        I hope this will help others to understand my anomosity toward the Mormon belief system.
        Love,
        David

        Reply
      • 62. Sheryl  |  February 6, 2010 at 9:50 am

        David, I’m so sorry you have been thru all that you have. Unfortunately, that violence toward gays is not just by Mormons. Those are the type of people who, when you find out the type of person they really are, that one does not want to associate with.

        At least my gr. nephew did not (to my knowledge) experience violence to show him the error of his ways. He just kept getting invites to church events (including wedding receptions of people he didn’t even know). Like going to these would change him (DUH, he grew up going church). His parents are very accepting as are his sisters (2 married in the temple).

        as I said, I do not understand parents who disown their family members (or quit associating with people who were once their friends).

        My home ward is what I refer to as a “John Birch’ ward. I wish I had found the MormonsforMarriage site earlier in the Prop8 campaign. That gave me the courage to put that No on 8 bumper sticker on my car and not care what anyone thought. I had my No on 8 sign that I waved at those waving their Yes signs.

        People in California fell for the half lies and innuendos that was propogated by the YES side. I had a friend mention how terrible it was that those children were taken to their teachers wedding. she had no idea that it was the parents of those children and not the teachers who arranged the trip and that the children were not forced to go. It would be nice if our media would report all of the facts. IMHO, the no side did not do enough to counteract those lies and innuendos. and why was that, because we thought the people of California were more intelligent and would see that voting to strip a segment of society their rights only opened up a very big can of worms for all of society.

        sorry, off my soapbox. Again, I’m sorry that you have endured all that you have. the violence toward gays is one thing that I worry about for my son. Know SF is a safer place to live than most places but it still happens here also.

        Are you on facebook, David? I’d love to have you as one of my facebook friends.

        Reply
  • 63. Bill  |  February 5, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    ‘Coming out’ is a daily, sometimes hourly event for LGTB people.

    It never ends. It never will.

    Until I found TRUE love, I was always nervous to come out.

    When I found TRUE and lasting love, I found that I no longer gave even the slightest care to what straight people thought and I never will again.

    That’s how wonderfully healing ture love can be.

    Reply
    • 64. Ronnie  |  February 5, 2010 at 5:10 pm

      I always introduce myself like this:

      Hi, I’m Ronnie Mc, I’m funny, I’m Cute, I’m Gay Is that Ok.

      One response I got was, What” The funny part?

      Reply
  • 65. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 5, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    I don’t know if anyone here listens to The Moth podcast. It consist of short personal stories, told without notes. I recently listened to a story presented by Jeffery Rudell called “Under the Influence” (second from top under “Mainstage”) about his coming out story and the extreme reaction of his mother. I just have no words, I don’t understand how parents could treat their own kid this way. It’s around 10 minutes, very worth a listen.

    Reply
    • 66. Bill  |  February 5, 2010 at 5:03 pm

      Mine did. Showed me the door at 17, and I haven’t seen or heard from them since.

      I’m now 40, and haven’t heard from mom, dad, or 3 siblings in 23 years.

      I’m sure they are very, very miserable in life.

      But I am sure not.

      Reply
      • 67. David Kimble  |  February 5, 2010 at 6:18 pm

        Wow, what a powerful story – I cried…I cried…and then I cried some more. His story echoes so many of our lives in so many ways. I remember, when I told my mother…I was prepared tor the usual questions and I had a book “Now That You Know” for her, which she never read. Still that was about 25 years ago now and I find myself her caregiver. It goes against who I am – a loving person – to ignore anyone in need. When I moved home to help her, she had just been diagnosed with breast cancer (when I was able to work, I worked on an Alzheimer unit). After she had recovered from breast cancer, she had a massive stroke and I became ill with cancer again and stayed. I remember once hearing or reading (sorry, I don’t recall) the best way to deal with hatred and bigotry to love the person, who is exhibiting this behavior. The relationship with my mother is still tenuous, but I stay, not because she needs me, but because I need to give love, where every I can in life.
        Love,
        David

        Reply
    • 68. Bill  |  February 5, 2010 at 5:09 pm

      I just listened to the podcast.

      Quite powerful.

      I relate totally to his story.

      Reply
    • 69. Ronnie  |  February 5, 2010 at 5:22 pm

      My mother doesn’t care…actually I never really said Mom I’m gay…I just kinda am….my father doesn’t know though I haven’t seen him since I was 18 (i’m 25)…he has a whole other family of his own…and I disowned him…His wife is a evil bitch and my brothers are demon spawns.

      I keep in touch with my aunts and cousins form his side though and they love me for me.

      I want to show up at his house with my boyfriend(sill looking) and be like dad this (?) and we are getting married…DEAL WITH IT!!!!!!!!!

      Reply
      • 70. Ronnie  |  February 5, 2010 at 6:40 pm

        I mean don’t think I’m nonchalantly saying that it was easy for me to come out…my family just kinda knows…My 14yo cousin asked me when he was 8…..8!!!!!!!….I already put my life story on another thread so I won’t repeat myself..but I wasn’t out in high school but everybody knew…I denied it…went through all the motions, trying to kill myself 3 times, girlfriends, trying to hide the raging hard on after track practice in the locker room. When I came out to myself all of sudden I was Mr. popular but I was still lying to my friends…2 words that should not be in the same sentence unless you are trying to spare their feelings. I came out officially in college and it has just been uphill since then….. I dated I got a job at the clubs in NYC, I got a job at Abercrombie and Fitch…no I am not ho, like most bigots think gay people are. I am only 25 and I have only been with 5 guys and only 2 of them sexually….so does that make me a ho?……I have been threatened in high school(he was expelled works @ gas station) and attacked granted he was the one that wound up in the hospital not me(DON”T UNDER ESTIMATE ME!)

        At the end of it all My family lief was easy, but public I was a total complete mess until I was 16 then I was just a complete mess until I was 19…now I’m just mess….lol

        Reply
      • 71. David Kimble  |  February 5, 2010 at 6:51 pm

        Thank you Ronnie, the suicide theme is very common in our community – it kinda goes with the lie thing and not feeling good about lying. I remember PE in school too, I would always shower wtih my back to everyone, so I didn’t have to look and get a hard-on. Still there was one guy, I remember – WOW – I had the hots for him, but never felt comfortable in talking to him about anything, but those were differnt times – 1968 – 1971. The sexual revolution had started, but the community I grew-up in (Washington State) was very conservative. Everyone was expected to be in church on Sundays and if you weren’t there, questions were raised – where were you?
        Love,
        David

        Reply
      • 72. Ronnie  |  February 5, 2010 at 7:09 pm

        Your welcome David K….People don’t realize that this whole indoctrination thing is not happening because we want to teach kids how to be gay…they are the ones asking the Qs….LGBT people are all over the TV, movies, news, magazines, the internet, cell phones….your kids will see it and do see it whether its in schools or not. That’s why I feel this anti-SSM thing has nothing to do with marriage it has everything to do with re-criminalizing homosexuality…they don’t want us period.

        NEWSFLASH…we aint goin no where…lol

        I’m so tired of hearing…You make me sick, you are going to hell….well it makes me sink when I hear you say things like that to me…why are your feelings more important then mine? honestly you need to check yourself because if your biggest problem is why I kiss Adam and what wedding invitations we pick out….then I don’t want to hear you crying “I can’t pay my rent”… “I can’t feed my kids”…”I can’t get it up”….”My husband won’t touch me”

        Well maybe you need to get another or better job…. you betta cut some food stamps….I hear viagra works….maybe he’s gay…..but if those are less important then stopping me from marring the man that I love…well you’re f-ed regardless.

        You know what I mean David K.?

        Reply
      • 73. David Kimble  |  February 5, 2010 at 8:01 pm

        Yes, Ronnie, I know exactly what you mean and then there are always uncomfortable family gatherings where you want to scream “I’M GAY”, when a well-meaning family member, who ‘doesn’t know’ (but really does) wants to set you up on a date with a nice girl!
        Love,
        David

        Reply
      • 74. Ronnie  |  February 5, 2010 at 8:13 pm

        OMG….Thats never happened to me….they tried to set me up with guys….my family is way to supportive gay gung-ho…lol

        Reply
      • 75. David Kimble  |  February 5, 2010 at 8:21 pm

        That’s great to hear! Good for you – it is always nice to have support.
        Love,
        David

        Reply
    • 76. rpx  |  February 6, 2010 at 3:45 pm

      Other side of the coin, when your son/daughter tells you they are gay, what it feels like. Okay I’ll share. Our son we home from college over winter break. It was about 2am and we were searching together on the internet searching out scholarships for him. He heads to the bathroom and as he is walking away from me down the hall I shoult over my shoulder, “Ryan you are not gay are you?” I saw there were a whole bunch of scholarships for gay people. He walks back down the hallway and says, “What did you say?” I say “Well ther are all inds of scholarships I found for gays.” and he says, “Mom I am gay” I almost fainted right there. I wasn’t seriously asking him and never expected to hear that answer. It was a real shock to me. But he was nice and patient and told me he would be fine. Of course my first worry was for his safety and how this might mean he would have a difficult life. He was very reassuring and thought that he would ave a good life. Of course I asked he stupid question if he was sure. He says, “Mom I’m sure, I’m gay”
      He didn’t want me to tell his father, my hsuband and I told him I wouldn’t but that he would ahve to. It wasn’t fair to me to expect me to keep this secret from my husband. I asked him if he thought his sister was also gay and he said I would ahve to ask her, so the next day I did and she told me she was gay alos. This was a shocking couple fo days but then Ryan told me to got to PFLAG which I did and after reading the PFLAG I kind of settled down a bit. In about 2 weeks both my son and my daughter told my husband and it took him more like 2 weeks to get over the shock. But then we were okay with it and called virtually everyone in our family and told them both our kids are gay and everyone, and I mean everyone, was very supportive. From there on out we as a family were jsut rather nonchellant and open about it.

      Trust me when your kids tell you they are gay it is a shock to the system. You mourn for the life you though they, and you would have. Gee both kids are gay i’ll never be a grandmother, things like that. Finally my husband came to terms with it and said, “I love my children” If I had a choice in t he matter my kids would be hetro. But I don’t have any say in the matter they are both adults and it is what it is. It is their life and they are who they are. I don’t stop loving them because they are gay. But I never knew ever, before coming to this website how much gays and lesbians are hated by the religious communites. I’m not gay so I never before visited gay websites, why would I? But when I read in the MSM news about this trial and my gosh, really there is a chance my children can legally marry their beloved partners, now I read every word. I have read every word of the transcripts of the trial and most of the Amicus Briefs. I want this so bad for my children and mostly for my grandchildren I can’t even adequately express it here.

      Reply
      • 77. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 4:07 pm

        Thank you for that rpx….as I said b4….I am only 25 and my family is supportive…100+ people…The only person that doesn’t know is my father his wife and my 3 half brothers…not because I haven’t told them,,,they are not apart of my life anymore but my aunts on his side know and are 100%supportive and hardcore Christian….anyway,,,I really don’t think people see the parallels btw. Civil Rights, Women’s Rights and LGBT Rights….when you go right down to the root of the Hate you have two things:

        1.All 3 are about religious filled hate and oppression
        2.All 3 are about the hate of who you are; for civil rights it was about the color of a person’s skin and family lineage, for women’s rights is was about gender and holding onto traditional religious female practices while women wanted to vote on things that affected them as well and needed to find jobs in cases where they couldn’t have kids and so forth, and now its about orientation. Sex is not just what LGBT people are about if that was the case then heterosexuals are just as guilty. I don’t see heteros not having sex or dating.

        African American people were attacked and murdered because of their color,

        Women where beaten because of their strength and ideals,

        And while both of those were going on LGBT people were murdered and attacked for the same reason, ideals, looks, actions, and who we are and who we want to be openly.

        You and your husband are brave people…Thankyou….<3

        Reply
  • 78. slsmith66  |  February 5, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    For anyone in the Sacramento area, looks like we just avoided this due to the weather. I’m sure they will figure out another day to come soon.

    http://www.sacbee.com/latest/story/2516775.html

    Reply
    • 79. dieter  |  February 5, 2010 at 5:12 pm

      I am in Sacramento, and I am glad they did not show up. It probably just saved me a life sentence for what I would have done.

      Reply
      • 80. Andrea  |  February 5, 2010 at 5:28 pm

        Stay calm, guys. San Francisco figured out how to make them leave quietly. Now start making absurd signs. ;)

        Reply
      • 81. fiona64  |  February 5, 2010 at 6:32 pm

        Hee, Andrea! Remember me mentioning my lesbian cousin whom I had known for 10 year before we discovered we were related? She was the one with the “Mikey hates everything” placard.

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
    • 82. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 6, 2010 at 8:15 am

      And they are the ones who keep saying G-d hates us! Looks like G-d intervened on our behalf on this one (as usual), doesn’t it?

      Reply
    • 83. rpx  |  February 6, 2010 at 4:11 pm

      Can you please summarize the news story? I won’t let the site save a cookie on my computer so I can’t see any of the stories.

      Reply
      • 84. Richard W. Fitch  |  February 6, 2010 at 4:27 pm

        There is no reason to distrust Sacbee. I live in Indiana and have been an online subscriber for quite awhile. With all that’s going on in CA of LGBT significance, Sacbee and SFGate are good regional news sources.

        Reply
  • 85. Ronnie  |  February 5, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    I think we should all sign up for our Chorus Line…It sure would make coming out in pubic and to our families easier….yeah?

    Reply
  • 86. David Kimble  |  February 5, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    “I’m so tired of hearing…You make me sick, you are going to hell….well it makes me sink when I hear you say things like that to me…why are your feelings more important then mine? honestly you need to check yourself because if your biggest problem is why I kiss Adam and what wedding invitations we pick out….then I don’t want to hear you crying “I can’t pay my rent”… “I can’t feed my kids”…”I can’t get it up”….”My husband won’t touch me”

    Well maybe you need to get another or better job…. you betta cut some food stamps….I hear viagra works….maybe he’s gay…..but if those are less important then stopping me from marring the man that I love…well you’re f-ed regardless.”

    BTW, I was away from computer – watching Wheel of Forturne and Jeopardy! – my two never miss programs of the day. LOL

    This is so true!
    Love,
    David

    Reply
    • 87. Ronnie  |  February 5, 2010 at 9:45 pm

      i love W.O.F…..I’m very good at it…the other day…I don’t remember what the puzzle was but it was a song with like the whole board covered…I got it with only 6 letters showing….my mother hates that because when I was younger we would watch together and she would always beat me and now I have surpassed the teacher…lol

      Reply
  • 88. CuriousObserver  |  February 5, 2010 at 10:52 pm

    If a woman has the right to marry a man, shouldn’t a man have that exact same right? Anything less is discrimination on the basis of gender, and therefore unconstitutional.

    There you go, sexual orientation doesn’t even need to be brought up. After all, orientation is merely the reason why a man would want to marry another man, as opposed to the constitutional bearing on whether or not he should be able to do so in the first place.

    Reply
    • 89. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 6, 2010 at 8:18 am

      And curious observer, there is also the flip side to your coin. If a man has the right to marry a woman, why shouldn’t a woman have that same right? Again, anything less is discrimination based on gender and therefore unconstitutional. BTW, are you a lawyer?

      Reply
      • 90. CuriousObserver  |  February 6, 2010 at 2:09 pm

        That’s exactly what I’m saying, Richard. :) If a man has the right to marry a woman, then a woman should have that exact same right. And if a woman has a right to marry a man, then a man should have that exact same right.

        No need to get fussy. I’m completely for gay marriage.

        Reply
      • 91. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 6, 2010 at 6:03 pm

        Also, your argument was so logical that I was actually hoping that you are a lawyer. You would be a great on to have on our side in the courtroom.

        Reply
    • 92. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 6, 2010 at 6:01 pm

      I’m sorry Curious Observer, I did not mean to get fussy. I only meant to follow the logical progression of what you were saying. I fullyl believe that as long as two people are of legal age, it should not matter one little bit whether it is two men, two women, or a man and a woman. The important thing is whether they love each other enough that they want to solidify their commitment. And I truly hope that some lesbians will file a sexual discrimination lawsuit over the right to marry their wives, because to me it is only fair that they be allowed to do so. If I upset you with my previous post, I apologize. I just typed the first thing I thought, because when you posted @ #79, I just got so happy to see one more logical argument in favor of marriage equality that I didn’t stop to think how it would sound.

      Reply
  • 93. Billy  |  February 6, 2010 at 1:13 am

    In CA Independents can choose which primary they want to vote in. Mr. Campbell is trying to get old style CA republicans (pre 1980), who do not appreciate the church in the state house and all the other neocon folderal, but want be fiscally conservative, and therefore left, or never joined, the GOP, to vote for him by appearing to be socially progressive. Independents voters will be the key to the 2010 elections.

    Reply
  • 94. Jose Luis  |  February 6, 2010 at 1:29 am

    HI from México…

    I’m a young mexican 22 y/o from Tijuana, final semester in communication sciences. Well, I’ve had this teacher that I respected a lot, and has a lot of expertise in psychology, although she isn’t a real psychiatrist. But, last semester she casually repeated a common slander against gays, but I ignored it. (even tough she is no ragging homophobe and talks rarely about controversial issues). But, she repeated it again.. “it has been proven that 80% of male homosexuals grew up with a strong mother and weak father” the usual bullshit. I couldn’t help it and gently (at least I tried) told her that as a gay man (at that moment, I came out to my whole class, with very funny but kind reaction from a friend beside me :p ) and that I found the whole statement insulting.

    Now, I expected her reaction, which is to say that there was none. She is VERY adapt at sounding both neutral and convincing, typical “soft homophobe” reaction. She repeated the study, and almost comically said to the whole class that “there are ABSOLUTELY no studies that prove biological reasons for homosexuality”. I knew, and so did most of the class, that that is the equivalent of the other common right wing myth about there not being any proof of evolution or global warming. There are hundreds of studies showing amazing prof of homosexuals having distinct biological characteristics, even different brain functions. But, she is still the teacher and we where in a Advance Writing class, not a psychological class. She claimed that “the guy who took homosexuality out of the DSM in the 70’s, now says that he was wrong and gets lynched by the pro gay groups” (and she says this in a very gentle, comical and convincing tone)

    Of course, I asked for her sources… No surprise. NARTH of course, or the mexican groups affiliated with them.

    So I looked it up. Found out it was Robert Spitzer she was talking about, which made the “controversial” study about ex-gays, and that ex-gay groups have been using as evidence that “the guy who too homosexuality out of the mental illness section of the DSM now says that he was wrong”… Nothing, of course, could be further from the truth, and Spitzer himself supports gays rights and says that the Christian right has twisted his words to conform to his agenda.

    But, I studied all of this in-depth after getting home from school, and I’m still gunning up on studies, quotes and more about this Robert Spitzer guy and the real story about the reason why homosexuality was removed from the DSM-III list of mental illnesses (Evelyn Hooker was the one who responsible for that) and other stuff.

    But, I need something to fight her bogus claim about the strong mother weak father theory. I looked all over the Internets, and found absolutely nothing, only some claims in mexican websites about that being a “fact”.

    Can anyone help me?

    Reply
    • 95. Billy  |  February 6, 2010 at 3:18 am

      http://www.fallwell.com/cause.html

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud%27s_views_about_homosexuality

      http://www.christianpost.com/article/20081129/homosexuality-misconceptions-in-ministry/index.html

      http://www.drthrockmorton.com/article.asp?id=209

      http://rodina.pastorbonus.sk/plugins/studie/upload/V%20seutter,%20rovers-%20emoti…ournal%20of%20psy%20and%20theology.pdf

      One of the things your teacher may be citing is the last item I linked entitled “Emotionally Absent Fathers: Furthering the Understanding of Homosexuality”. This journal was written by Ray A Seutter, a psychologist that specializes in “pastoral counselling” in Edmonton Alberta, Canada. To me, the journal is skewed because it samples male Roman-Catholic seminarians. In my opinion, it isn’t that the gay men in the study aren’t gay because of an absent father, but rather the fathers feel “emotionally absent” due to the strict religious upbringing and a church culture of bigotry against homosexuals.

      This “emotional distance” is both difficult to quantify and also subjective. It could be that the father subconsiously knew that his son was gay at an early age and subconsiously withdrew himself. It could have to do with the church culture against homosexuality and a father’s choice between accepting his son as he is or facing the wrath of the church and God. It could also have to do with the gay man realizing that he is different from his peers and thus, not relating to anyone in his immediate life, withdraws into himself.

      Even Seutter in his own journal admits the limitations of his own findings: “Further reasearch to better understand the complexity of sexual orientation is essential, especially personal development within the family of origin and possible biological determinants of personality. A study of remembered childhood intimacy with fathers and mothers as well as a replication of this study with women would be appropriate. The creation of two new, untested sub-scales is also a methodological limitation. We wonder if there are specific sensitivities in these participants who are to become priests that might not exist in the general population. These variables need to be explored in further research. The small sample size is also noted.”

      TL;DR – If having an absent father made you gay, given the nation’s 50% divorce rate, there’d be a lot more homosexuals running around huh?

      Reply
    • 96. Felyx  |  February 6, 2010 at 5:55 am

      For one, ask her why she is ‘teaching’ pseudo-psychiatry in a writing class? REGARDLESS of subject matter! If her response doesn’t satisfy you, ask her if she would feel it was ok for you to check with the dean of her particular college for the appropriateness of the content. Do it in a nice and respectful way and explain that making this subject a matter for classroom discussion is taking away from the intended academic studies.

      Any way you work it, the point is to expose her and the false information into the light of day and directly to her superiors. Bring a calm quiet group of friends to stand behind you if you go to the hierarchy so as to make a silent but potent impact.

      Con Suerte M’igo,

      Felyx

      Reply
      • 97. Cammie  |  February 6, 2010 at 7:28 am

        I dunno if there’s any studies explicitly disproving that bit of pseudo-psych, so I guess you can just attack her lack of reliable basis for that claim, and counter the premise of gayness being nurture-influenced at all by going back to pointing out studies that point towards biological factors. (Younger of multiple sons more likely to be gay because of conditions in the womb as the mother ages/has more pregnancies, digit ratio theories linking lesbians to higher levels of androgen in the womb I think, identical twin studies, etc.)

        Reply
      • 98. Felyx  |  February 6, 2010 at 7:50 am

        I would ammend my comment. If she doesn’t know your position on the matter and you fear reprocussion in your grade due to bias and prejudice you may want to initiate an anonymous letter campaign. Write a general (TWIMC) position paper and send it to her dean, the dean of the college or university, pres, vp, local student paper, local city paper and even the govenor (although anonymous letters usually do not get attention.)

        With that kinda coverage it will definitely get some notice. If nothing else she will want to shut up just to keep her job. (BTW, don’t ever threaten! Bad move. Instead, discuss everthing in terms of academic apropriateness and not in terms of a controversial social issue. This way the university is taking a stand on academia and not on socio-political issues…which they might want to ignore and try to sweep under the table.)

        Reply
      • 99. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 8:33 am

        Wait wait wait….No No No…I don’t agree…You pay the school, you pay the teacher. if you have a problem with that teacher said you say something and you report them. If this teacher give any grade that is less then what you clearly deserved you call the teacher on it.

        I have brought 5 of my teachers to court for that very reason. They think they are gods gift to students, but they forget we pay them to do a service. If you like the service you do something about right? Sure Ryan Reynolds will spit in your food, but you have the right to say something if effects your life in anyway.

        Similar to what we are fighting for, they take out taxes the same as everybody else but want to treat us differently and separately…..There’s so many obvious parallels in life and in history but yet the Bigots cannot see that because all they care about is me me me me, blah blah blah…My kids, my marriage…wah wah

        Well Bigots….what about me me me me…blah blah blah…Think about this way with modern medication and science technically heterosexuals are not even needed any more..we have in-vitro and can reproduce without having sex…the only problem with that is that there is no way to stop heterosexuals from being born and any less then you stop homosexuals. There is not like magic sirum we can use to make sure all babies come out gay….right?

        Think about that,,,anyway back to the teacher thing…the teachers personal feelings towards a political and societal issue has no place in the classroom or lecture hall.

        Reply
      • 100. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 8:55 am

        I have another point that everyone seems to have danced about and that is check the position of your school on such matters being discussed in the classroom, where more opinion is proffered than fact. My second recommendation is download the transcripts of this trial, where studies were cited. While I fully understand there are bigots in the world, we need to fight them with the facts.
        I hope all goes well for you.
        Love,
        David

        Reply
      • 101. Casey  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:04 am

        I agree that a teacher’s use of such insanely biased “studies” is inappropriate in a classroom, but as teacher, I disagree that we believe we are “God’s gift to students”. It is true that tax dollars pay teachers, but be realistic: since teachers are valued so little that they can barely pay their bills, the profession does not always attract the best candidates. This a problem in America, but since Jose Luis gives us his story from Mexico, I don’t know to what extent that issue is shared. When teaching here in the American South, my class and I frequently bring up topics of inequality of all types. I freely share my views with my students, and they freely share theirs with me and one another, in a scholarly style. We do not always agree, and I have had uncomfortable conversations with families about the inclusive content in my classroom. It is unrealistic to think that teachers will leave every single personal view at the door to the school. Teachers make no money. Many will not shut up just to keep their jobs. Imagine if my principal came to me and asked me to stop redirecting kids for using the word ‘fag’, or holding discussions about the use of the word ‘gay’ in the student culture. Do you think I would shut up? No. I would rather be fired. As sad as I am that teachers who preach hatred exist, I doubt they would shut up either – I just don’t think threats are effective. That being said, I am on the same page that it seems this particular educator was attempting to sway the students to her views, instead of presenting material and letting conversation ensue. The grade she assigns needs to be reflective of effort and accuracy, which she seems to lack. I suggest another route: in a writing class, it is certainly appropriate to create arguments and hold a scholarly debate. That will give students of both sides a chance to research studies (or “studies”, as the instructor brought…) and encourage a conversation that could go way beyond the classroom. That would give a brave and wonderful soul like Jose Luis a forum for presenting his findings, and discussing the bias of the NARTH crap.

        Reply
      • 102. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:10 am

        I’m sorry casey..I meant College proffs….I understand respecting the teacher but respect in those situations needs to be earned not not demanded…I have had several proffs tell me I’m your superior and you will respect me..and I’m Excuse me I pay you over $1500 and you are going to tell me what to do, what to say, and how to act.?….You done lost your Mother lovin mind!

        Reply
      • 103. Felyx  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:34 am

        I have to agree with Dave,

        Checking the policies is a very good was to go about handling the situation. Arming one’s self with accurate information is essential but beware of taking the debate to the classroom when you are there to learn something.

        My first comment was made after consulting with two (gay) professors who live with me. First politely address the instructor privately, then, if one is still dissatisfied, proceed to the departmental dean.

        My second comment was made based on past experience where I was treated politely to my face but skillfully backstabbed afterwards. There is the ideal world, which often is decent, but then there is the real world, which allow gay discrimination without recrimination.

        Most of all, make a clear decision as to whether you want to debate social policy or whether you want a quality education….don’t win a battle to lose your GPA…winning a long forgotten battle doesn’t get you a job!

        Reply
      • 104. Felyx  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:46 am

        You know, I just hit me….doesn’t she have to wait until AFTER universal civil marriage is legal before teaching about Homosexuality in school?!!!!!

        I mean, this IS the oppositions arguement is it not?!

        Reply
      • 105. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:52 am

        Bwaaa….Indoctrination…omg!!!!!…AHHHH!!!!

        Reply
    • 106. Bill  |  February 6, 2010 at 9:34 am

      So, if what your teacher said WAS true; if those studies ARE true, then why are heterosexuals making their LGTB childlren pay for THIER sins and for THEIR parental mistakes and THEIR emotional shortcomings???

      Think about it.

      Your ‘teacher’ was basically saying that studies show that homosexuality is the result of bad parenting.

      Doesn’t logic follow, then, that it is heterosexual parents that should suffer the discrimination, and not the victims of their bad parenting?

      Jeez, these kind of people are so friggin’ dumb.

      Reply
    • 107. rpx  |  February 6, 2010 at 4:31 pm

      Oh and the next time she brings up NARTH make sure and humm the melody from Star Wars. You could also offer a bit of humor by saying something like, “Oh yes NARTH where the editors definitley need better light sabers.”

      There were many hysterical comments on the day of the livblogging when the chinese man Dr. Tam (?) testified. He also refered to NARTH as his authoratative source and the comments right after his testimony were belly laughing funny.

      Reply
      • 108. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 4:37 pm

        skkkkk….shhh….skkkkkk….shhh…Luke…skkkkk….I am a Homo!…skkkkkk!

        Reply
  • 109. dieter  |  February 6, 2010 at 1:37 am

    great song:

    Reply
    • 110. dieter  |  February 6, 2010 at 2:01 am

      last link did not work but here is a different great clip:

      Reply
      • 111. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 10:30 am

        I love this Woman….another Hero to add to my list.

        Reply
    • 112. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 10:41 am

      I can’t see this either…What is going on?…Am I the only one he can’t see these? Dieter what did you do?

      Reply
      • 113. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 10:46 am

        Back, sorry it took so long, my mother decided I needed to defrost the freezer.
        Love,
        David

        Reply
  • 114. dieter  |  February 6, 2010 at 1:38 am

    Reply
    • 115. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 10:33 am

      What video or comment is supposed to be here?…I can’t see it…I am I the only one who can’t see this?…What did you Dieter?

      Reply
  • 116. Ali  |  February 6, 2010 at 4:33 am

    Amen to this post!

    Reply
  • 117. fiona64  |  February 6, 2010 at 8:36 am

    Dear Friends:

    In a different thread, bJason brought up an interesting point about how people just want to belong somewhere — and how fears may keep them from speaking their mind in support of LGBT peoples’ rights if their “crowd” is against it (e.g., LDS people who do not feel safe to be “out” as allies). I wholly concur that it is human nature, because that was a survival tactic from the earliest days of evolution. One person was in danger, two people less so … and that is how we developed. I’m sure it’s part of our limbic brain and organic memory.

    Well, I was thinking about how many people have “adopted” brothers, sisters or children here to create a family of choice. It seems to me that we have all been harmed in some way, often by religious organizations (I include myself in that number) or biological families, and that we have come together in purpose to support one another and show the kind of love and kindness to each other that we wish we had received ourselves.

    Yet another song came to mind when I was considering this, from Disney’s “Hunchback of Notre Dame.” I remember sobbing in the movie theatre when I heard it the first time.

    God Help The Outcasts (Bette Midler)

    I don’t know if You can hear me
    Or if You’re even there
    I don’t know if You would listen
    To a gypsy’s prayer
    Yes I know i’m just an outcast
    I shouldn’t speak to you
    Still I see Your face and wonder
    Were You once an outcast too?

    God help the outcasts
    Hungry from birth
    Show them the mercy
    They don’t find on earth
    God help my people
    They look to you still
    God help the outcasts
    Or nobody will

    Chorus: I ask for wealth
    I ask for fame
    I ask for glory to shine on my name
    I ask for all I can possess
    I ask for God and his angels to bless me

    I ask for nothing
    I can get by
    But I know so many
    Less lucky than I
    Please help my people
    The poor and downtrod
    I thought we all were
    The children of God
    God help the outcasts
    Children of God

    I don’t know if there’s a reason
    Why some are blessed, some not
    Why the few You seem to favor
    They fear us, Flee us
    Try not to see us

    God help the outcasts
    The tattered, the torn
    Seeking an answer
    To why they were born
    Winds of misfortune
    Have blown them about
    You made the outcasts
    Don’t cast them out
    The poor and unlucky
    The weak and the odd
    I thought they all were
    The children of God

    Love,
    Fiona

    Reply
    • 118. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 6, 2010 at 8:59 am

      And Fiona, you have once again proven why you are the PERFECT face for the marriage equality movement. And now that I have found out that I am not the only Bette Midler fan on here, how about this one?

      FROM A DISTANCE the earth is blue and green and the snow capped mountains white;
      FROM A DISTANCE the ocean meets the stream and the eagle takes to flight.
      FROM A DISTANCE there is harmony and it echoes through the land!
      It’s the voice of hope, it’s the voice of peace, it’s the voice of every man.

      FROM A DISTANCE we all have enough and no one is in need;
      There are no guns, no bombs and no diseases; no hungry mouths to feed

      FROM A DISTANCE we are instruments marching in a common band,
      Playing songs of hope, playing songs of peace, they’re the songs of every man.

      God is watching us, God is watching us, God is watching us FROM A DISTANCE!

      FROM A DISTANCE you look like my friend, even though we are at war;
      FROM A DISTANCE I just can’t comprehend what all this fighting’s for.

      FROM A DISTANCE there is harmony and it echoes through the land;
      It’s the hope of hope, it’s the love of love; it’s the heart of every man!
      It’s the hope of hope, it’s the love of love; it’s the heart of everyone!

      God is watching us, God is watching us, God is watching us FROM A DISTANCE!

      I remember singing this so many times at St. Mary’s MCC in Greensboro, NC, and the choir there would sing it as they marched in the Pride Parade here.

      Reply
    • 119. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 9:27 am

      Thanks, Fiona,
      Bette is great and one of her song that I absolutely adore is:

      Some say love, it is a razor
      that leaves your soul to bleed.
      Some say love, it is a hunger,
      an endless aching need.
      I say love, it is a flower,
      and you it’s only seed.

      It’s the heart afraid of breaking
      that never learns to dance.
      It’s the dream afraid of waking
      that never takes the chance.
      It’s the one who won’t be taken,
      who cannot seem to give,
      and the sould afraid of dyin’
      that never learns to live.

      When the night has been too lonely
      and the road has been to long,
      and you think that love is only
      for the lucky and the strong,
      just remember in the winter
      far beneath the winter snows
      lies the seed that with the sun’s love
      in the spring becomes the rose.
      Love,
      David

      Reply
      • 120. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 5:38 pm

        Hey Ladies, Gentlemen, and all those who have yet to make up their minds….In the spirit of Bette Middler I think that we should all dress in complete white and shut down every single city and dance and sing too:

        Reply
      • 121. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 6, 2010 at 6:07 pm

        I can see it now, Ronnie. But I would have to wear pants like Goldie Hawn is doing. I don’t have time enough to shave my legs to look that good in a skirt and tights.

        Reply
      • 122. Richard W. Fitch  |  February 6, 2010 at 6:12 pm

        OH! OH! I LOVE that movie and three of my favorite ladies. Ronnie is too young to know but Bette has always been extended family. She got her start singing in one of the NYC bath houses (the Columbia?) and her piano player was Barry Manilow! {ah, the good ole days}

        Reply
      • 123. Richard W. Fitch  |  February 6, 2010 at 6:13 pm

        The Continental

        Reply
      • 124. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 6:13 pm

        I would dress like Goldie too…except I would wear skin tight white leggings and Swarovski covered 5 inch heals….Yeah Betch I can walk in 5 inch. heals..and we all know that takes a real man…yeah?

        Reply
      • 125. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 6, 2010 at 6:37 pm

        Yes, Ronnie, and not just any real man–walking in 5 inch heels takes a real man with extremely good balance! I used to perform as a variety of female country performers.

        Reply
  • 126. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 9:20 am

    I wanted to share this with you guys, I told this to a friend and he posted it on another MB, although a little O.T….the parallels, like everything else, are uncanny:

    When my neighbors house on the left of me was picked up by a twister, I did not welcome them into mine…

    When my neighbors house on the right of me was swept away by a flood, I did not say Mi Casa Es Su Casa…

    When the family across the street lost their house during the earthquake and mine was left standing, I said I can’t offer you a room or a couch to sleep on because I’m all full up…

    But when My house caught on fire and everything was lost, Nobody was left to say, You are welcome to stay until you get back on your feet.

    Reply
    • 127. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 9:31 am

      Thanks, Ronnie,

      Gosh I am crying already and it isn’t even 10a here in California!
      Love,
      David

      Reply
      • 128. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 9:35 am

        You’re welcome….Good morning …it’s the afternoon here and Just woke up….LOL….my breakfast right now consists of cornbread, fried chicken, my mothers home made macaroni salad and coffee…UMMMM!!!

        Reply
    • 129. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 6, 2010 at 6:38 pm

      No, ronnie, this is not off-topic. This is spot on, just like the one about they came for____and I didn’t speak out.

      Reply
      • 130. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 6:44 pm

        That’s what I though too, but you know…some people(shrugs).

        Reply
  • 131. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 9:41 am

    Yes, that does sound like YUMMMY! Good Afternoon, I think – I dunno I get all confused about what time it is where! LOL, but then as I tell people (jokingly), I wrote the book of confusion – direct all questions here about the subject and I guarantee I will answer, maye, I dunno…!
    LOL

    Reply
    • 132. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 9:48 am

      LOL……its 12:47pm here in good old segregated NJ

      Reply
      • 133. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 9:50 am

        OK, thanks! BTW, is this a new thread here today or did they take most of the comments from last night and keep the same thrread going?
        Love,
        David

        Reply
      • 134. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 9:52 am

        I don’t think so.

        Reply
      • 135. fiona64  |  February 6, 2010 at 9:56 am

        Ronnie, I swear if I was in NJ I’d come right over. I’d probably skip the macaroni salad … but everything else sounds great. :-)

        Love,
        Fiona (who is probably going to hit the farmer’s market and Grocery Outlet store today)

        Reply
      • 136. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 9:58 am

        OK, thanks I think I must be in one of my more confused parts today. LOL
        Love,
        David

        Reply
  • 137. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 10:00 am

    Speaking of food, I need to eat – will be back in about 45 minutes.
    Love,
    David

    Reply
  • 138. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 10:12 am

    We’re here….We’re Queer….and our straights will keep you clear….

    Our taxes…we pay…reassure our rights today….

    Keep your god on your home shelves….so Gay teens will not kill themselves…

    The law says marriage is a fundamental right…so stop right there you’ll loose the fight….

    Actual Reality..Act up Fight Hate!!!!!!!…not all humans can procreate…..

    The Gay Agenda is not true……Like Harry Potter, its fiction too…

    We will not go away….so STFU or come and play…..

    We’re here we’re Queer and our straights we keep you clear!

    “You have been weighed. You have been Measured. And you have definitely been found wanting. Welcome to the real world. And god save you, if it is right for him to do so.” – Heath Ledger(RIP): A Knights Tale circa 2001A.D.

    Reply
    • 139. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 10:49 am

      Thanks, Ronnie, I had not seen that one before – I believe if we can find the courage to come-out to our friends and neighbors and become a voice for our communities, this is probably the best way we have to fight for our cause.
      Love,
      David

      Reply
      • 140. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 10:52 am

        Didn’t see what?…The movie or the chant?

        Reply
      • 141. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:00 am

        The chant, sorry, it takes me a while to catch-up here.
        Love,
        David

        Reply
      • 142. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:05 am

        Oh Ok…no I just made it up…lol….I’m really good at that stuff….I was a cheer leader my last year of high school and I’m pretty good with words…I can’t type if my life depended on it but…I have a lot of typos, as you can see, and don’t catch them until after I post….spellcheck sucks.

        Reply
      • 143. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:17 am

        When I was in High School, I typed 100wpm with no errors – my speed is no where near that anymore. BTW, when I was in high school, I wanted to be an attorney. I was on the Debate team and went to State one year with an oratory on schizophrenia.
        Love,
        David

        Reply
      • 144. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:22 am

        That’s cool…I don’t even know my wpm….but I sure can talk fast….lol

        Reply
      • 145. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:24 am

        Yeah, I can too…hmmm, I wonder if it’s contagious? ROFLMAO
        Love,
        David

        Reply
      • 146. fiona64  |  February 7, 2010 at 9:05 am

        David K: Ditto on the debate trophies!! My other events were dramatic interp, expository, after-dinner speech and radio commentary. :-)

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
  • 147. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 10:53 am

    BTW, I am on facebook – look for me under David Kimble or kimble9@iwvisp.com.
    Thanx,
    Love,
    David

    Reply
    • 148. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:38 am

      David Kimble…there’s like a bagillion David Kimbles on FB……lol

      Reply
  • 149. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:47 am

    I hope not all with the same spelling, as mine – perhaps try sending me an e-mail.

    Thanks,
    Love,
    David

    Reply
    • 150. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:50 am

      All the same…yes…lol

      Reply
    • 151. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 6, 2010 at 6:10 pm

      David, please get with me on FB. Richard Walter from Hope Mills, North Carolina. I tried looking you up and was so scared I would get the wrong one.

      Reply
  • 152. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:51 am

    yeppers! LOL

    Reply
  • 153. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:53 am

    oops, no not all the same – I am the one with blonde hair and there is a mirror behind me in the picture.
    Love,
    David

    Reply
    • 154. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 11:57 am

      Blue shirt?..I’m not on FB a lot…I kinda just pop in..but I’ll friend request.

      Reply
      • 155. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 12:02 pm

        Yes, it is a plaid shirt I have on and there is a mirror behind me you can see that shows – you can also send me e-mail at address I sent in first message here. I check it regularly.
        kimble9@iwvisp.com
        Love,
        David

        Reply
      • 156. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 12:14 pm

        cool I think i sent the request…I had to log out because one of my friends just logged in and can’t talk to her right now…she would have my attention all day..lol….even though she coming over 2morro..and as i typed this you accepted….lol

        Reply
  • 157. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Listen up World!….I mean seriously there is a lot of us, Gay and Straight, How do you expect to hide this many people and shut us up…I don’t think you have the man power…and think you really need to look at how inhuman you really are…..pictures don’t lie, they tell a thousand words….Pay close attention to end of this video….THIS IS WHAT YOU DO…..THIS IS WHO YOU ARE…but it’s not to late you can change…or at least show some semblance of a heart…”Gay is Ok! How many lives before you Learn?”

    Reply
    • 158. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 12:32 pm

      Wow – who made that video – it is so powerful! Thanks for sharing it with us!
      Love,
      David

      Reply
      • 159. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 12:39 pm

        I found it on youtube…it was posted on there by sn EterrnalSSA on Dec.8,2007

        Reply
    • 160. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 1:15 pm

      Thanks there are a lot of very good videos on youtube. There was one line at the end of the video that I particularly appreciated “Treat others as you want to be treated. Then you will truly show your love to God.
      Love,
      David

      Reply
      • 161. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 1:19 pm

        So true…I may be harsh sometimes to a certain someone someone on here but that K.I.A. deserves it…but I’m trying to be good and Gay…lol

        Reply
      • 162. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 1:29 pm

        Well, I have got to go for now – please send me a message, Ronnie, I would like to stay in touch.
        David

        Reply
      • 163. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 1:37 pm

        sure thing…TTYL

        Reply
    • 164. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 7:01 pm

      Wait where did it go?…Ok I’m freaking out… I am the only one that is not seeing some of these videos?

      Reply
      • 165. Ronnie  |  February 7, 2010 at 7:16 am

        I don’t know if I am the only one who can’t see this video but here is the link: (Don’t forget to add http://www)

        .youtube.com/watch?v+gg4gg4Q0vC79Y

        Reply
      • 166. Ronnie  |  February 7, 2010 at 7:19 am

        Wait no that is the wrong link it:(add the www)

        .youtube.com/watch?v=gg4Qg0vC79Y

        Reply
  • 167. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    Thanks for the great video – BTW, I just sent you a message on FB – please read and send me a message- I think you will understand, when you read message.
    David

    Reply
    • 168. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 12:27 pm

      You’re welcome…I’ll check but i can’t stay logged on…or my friend will keep me busy all day….she is like Six from “Blossom”…F-ing nuts…lol

      Reply
  • 169. Felyx  |  February 6, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Seen under a picture of a hetero couple on Yahoo just now…

    5 signs you’re headed toward a breakup

    Funny, not one of them mentioned Gays getting married!

    Reply
    • 170. Sheryl  |  February 7, 2010 at 12:43 am

      Gee, how could they have missed that one. LOL, too funny Felyx

      Reply
  • 171. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    she is like Six from “Blossom”…

    ROFLMAO – thanx that was precious!
    Love,
    David

    Reply
  • 172. Billy  |  February 6, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Hi everyone!

    Just wanted to send a quick message and say hello. Keep up the positive attitudes! :D

    Reply
    • 173. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 1:04 pm

      Thank you Billy!
      Love,
      David

      Reply
      • 174. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 1:10 pm

        Helllllloooooo…ooo….oooo…..oooo!!!!…hahah…lol

        Reply
  • 175. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Ok Everybody check out the home page for Armani Exchange….oh this is just too good for words……lol…<3

    It has in the middle a straight couple, on one side a lesbian couple, and the other a gay couple…and says(granted they are all models but still)

    "Share The Love" in big red all cap letters

    Reply
    • 176. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 1:50 pm

      Ok so the link will not post so I will just tell you. I just found this article and proves that they want to re-criminalize everything LGBT…you can be gay as long as I don’t have to see it…..They are angry because of the sexuality which is understandable but the are really P.O.ed because of the images of models in gay couplings….WTF….NEWSFLASH the owner is a Gay man…..UGGGG!!!!

      “Online Group Protests Gay-Friendly Armani Exchange Ad Campaign”- Monica Evans, edited by Jason Vaughn Feb.4,2010

      KANSAS CITY, MO – An online mothers support group wants upscale retailer Armani Exchange to pull its new ad campaign, which the group claims promote homosexuality.

      The ads, launched for Valentine’s Day, show same-sex couples embracing and urges customers to “share the love.” But some people claim that they aren’t feeling love when they see pictures of same-sex couple showing affection, and instead they say that the ads are demoralizing.

      “Sex sells and that has not changed,” said Phillip Cosby of the National Coalition for the Protection of Children and Families. “It is not just commercialism and unfortunately it is predatory in its nature.”

      Cosby and the group OneMillionMoms.com want Armani to remove the ads from their Plaza store, claiming that the “window displays poison children with 10-foot posters that are nothing but soft porn,” according to the group’s director, Monica Cole.

      Armani’s corporate office did not respond to FOX 4’s request for a comment.

      But while the ads are appalling to some, others say that the ads are appealing, and that the campaign shows acceptance.

      “It’s love and love is love,” said actor Larry Powell. “We are going into a world and energy and reality were same sex relationships are not a threat, it’s just a way of life and that’s the way it is.”

      “I think people have a problem with homosexuality and it being in public display in such a place as the Plaza,” said Lauren Franklin of Kansas City. “Some people may be uncomfortable with it.”

      Franklin, who says she works in retail, does say that the ads are slick and will probably draw people into the store to shop.

      Cosby says that if enough people speak out against the ad campaign or stop shopping at Armani, then Armani will drop the ads. The director of OneMillionMoms.com says that last summer the group was successful in getting Calvin Klein to remove a sexually explicit billboard in New York City.

      “If people are offended by those ads they can go to their local prosecutor and file a complaint for promotion of obsenity to a minor,” said Cosby.

      Reply
      • 177. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 2:23 pm

        Oh and this makes it even better….OneMillionMoms.com is paid for by the American Family Association(afa) which helped defeat the SSM Bill here In NJ

        The also accept donation through the Evangelical Council for Finical Accountability (ECFA)…..

        We are Absolutely 100% fighting against Homophobia…Marriage is not a trial …..It is Homosexuality …..Oh…I am so P.O.ed

        WE NEED TO GET LOAD!!!! no more being quiet!

        Reply
      • 178. Richard W. Fitch  |  February 6, 2010 at 3:24 pm

        I subscribe to the AFA propaganda skreeds to keep an eye on their idiocy. Why can’t all that effort and money be spent on something that is really important???

        Reply
      • 179. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 3:42 pm

        You mean like helping parentless children and Katrina victims? Or stopping priests from molesting boys? How about keeping track of repeat sex offenders? Or kids who are being raped by their fathers? Maybe women who are being beaten by their husbands or in vice versa(It does happen)? How about Gay teens being kicked out of their homes btw. the ages of 14 and 16? Or helping gay teens emotionally so they don’t kill themselves? Or you know stopping kids from bring guns, knives, and bombs to school?

        I can go on but that’s a good start…yeah?

        Reply
    • 180. Sheryl Carver  |  February 6, 2010 at 3:06 pm

      http://www.armaniexchange.com/

      Here’s the link – hope it works.

      Reply
  • 181. David Kimble  |  February 6, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Thanx, that was a good one – alright Armani! I will definitely shop there!

    Reply
  • 182. dieter  |  February 6, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Hathway Quits Catholicism for Gay Brother

    By Advocate.com Editors
    ANNE HATHAWAY X390

    Oscar nominee Anne Hathaway tells GQ Magazine she and her parents have left the Catholic church because of the religion’s views on gay issues. Hathaway, whose brother is gay, says she and her parents became Episcopalians shortly after he came out.

    “The whole family converted to Episcopalianism after my elder brother came out,” she said. “Why should I support an organization that has a limited view of my beloved brother?”

    Hathaway, who has been a vocal champion of gay rights since starring in Brokeback Mountain, says she isn’t quite at home with the Episcopalian Church either: “So I’m… nothing (no denomination). F**k it, I’m forming. I’m a work in progress.”

    Reply
    • 183. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 2:28 pm

      Yesssss! I love her….don’t these people realize they are losing…..I fthey want to live in a theocracy, then move to the Vatican….this America God dang it! (pardon my use of words)

      Reply
      • 184. rpx  |  February 6, 2010 at 5:04 pm

        es Ronnie, they should move right into the heart of Vatican city which is noted as the country wiht the absolute lowest age of consent in the entire world. Age of consent for sexual relations in Vatican City? The ripe and ready age of 12! Ronnie you will have to remember this fact in your tirades against teh Catholics. I spent a lot of time looking that up during the live blogging day that that Chinese guy Tam was on. He didn’t wnat gay marriage because he said countries who have gay marriage have lowered thier age of consent to 14 years old. So I looked up age of consent for all countries int he world. I wonder if the Mormons know that about the catholics?

        Reply
      • 185. Richard W. Fitch  |  February 6, 2010 at 5:14 pm

        rpx – You would probably be hard pressed to find any one nearly that young in Vatican City. I’m making a guess that the median age is somewhere close to 60. Now that doesn’t account for the altar boys who come in from the city of Rome itself. ;-)

        Reply
      • 186. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 5:26 pm

        LMAO!!!!…oh you guys…..And yet they forget Rome’s sordid past….the Gods and Goddesses, The Gay Gladiators, and all those Roman Virgin Orgies…..Hypocrites…lol

        Reply
      • 187. David Kimble  |  February 7, 2010 at 6:38 pm

        I’m back – have had a bad day – been nauseated since this early this afternoon – I took my nausea medication and it is marginally successful.

        Reply
  • 188. Ronnie  |  February 6, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    Hey have any of you guys and gals been to the Lime Light in NYC?

    Reply
  • 189. Ed-M  |  February 8, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    I hereby solemnly swear that from this point forward, I will not respond to any of George or Kay Moore’s attempts to kick the LGTB community when it is down. By ’signing’ below, I acknowledge that George and Kay Moore’s behavior on this web site crosses a line of morality that I as a member of the LGTB community do not agree with and can no longer support.

    Signed,
    Ed-M

    Reply
  • 190. geekgirl  |  February 10, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    If the Republicans were smart, they would take this opportunity to turn the gay marriage issue in their favor. During a Democratic presidency in which the advancement of gay rights is not flying along as many gay rights supporters had hoped, Republicans could take this issue and turn it from a wedge issue into a bridge issue. The Tea Partiers have broken off in an attempt to distance themselves from GWB’s Republicans, but they have gone flying off in exactly the wrong direction – even farther to the right. They needed to move to the center, embrace gay rights, and just leave abortion rights alone, and watch the independents flock to the voting booths to cast their votes for the new, more socially centrist GOP. There are a lot of independents out there who would vote for a fiscal conservative/social “liberal”.

    Reply
    • 191. Felyx  |  February 10, 2010 at 2:47 pm

      Such an astute observation. I have thought so myself.

      I wonder what damage the Tea Party antics will have on the GOP? And you gotta ‘hand’ it to Palin to show off her ‘mad skillz’ with the speechifyin’!

      I get the feeling that many of the Tea Partiers will refuse to vote…at least Republican or Democrat. Reminds my of how Perot changed the party dynamics.

      Needless to say, I don’t think the TPers are in anyway pro gay….(or even pro-black.)

      Reply
    • 192. Andrea  |  February 10, 2010 at 3:29 pm

      Zombie Goldwater 2012!
      It might actually work.

      Reply
      • 193. John  |  February 10, 2010 at 3:30 pm

        I’d probably still vote for him over Palin.

        Reply
      • 194. Andrea  |  February 10, 2010 at 3:37 pm

        I’d vote for him over a generic Democrat.

        Reply
      • 195. John  |  February 10, 2010 at 3:38 pm

        The way they’re handling things these days, I might even be inclined to agree with that.

        Reply

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