New York Fights Back for Equality

February 27, 2010 at 6:36 am 126 comments

By Julia Rosen

After 38 New York Senators voted down the marriage bill last year, it became clear that marriage equality wouldn’t become a reality unless things changed in Albany.

A new group launched yesterday called Fight Back New York, which is focused on creating the political landscape needed to bring marriage equality to New York. There are a number of great organizers behind this effort, including several friends of mine. Fight Back New York got its initial seed money from major LGBT political donor Tim Gill, but this project is designed to build a larger movement and base of support for independent expenditures in opposition to those who voted against equality.

Gay and lesbian New Yorkers have waited too long already for full equality. Committed activists have worked diligently for years to educate the public and our elected officials about the need for marriage equality. Last year a group of New York State Senators voted against marriage equality, neglecting the will of their constituents. Now a great group of progressives are fighting back.

To find out more and join the fight go to: http://fightbackpac.com/fight.

Their first target is former Senatore Hiram Monseratte, who is quite a piece of work:

Fight Back New York’s first campaign is aimed at defeating expelled State Senator Hiram Monserrate. Sen. Monserrate is currently running in a special election (scheduled for March 16) to regain his seat. Sen. Monserrate was expelled from the state senate in February following his conviction for misdemeanor assault of a female companion.

Following the March 16th special election, Fight Back New York will engage in a strategic examination of the political landscape and—together with allies and partners—determine where to channel its significant energies and resources in the rest of the 2010 New York election cycle.

It’s not long until that special election, but it will be interesting to see what Fight Back New York is able to accomplish in that window and how they build upon that to catapult into the rest of the election year.

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Closing Arguments May Be Televised 294 Pages To Equality

126 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 8:04 am

    Thank you Julia….since I live in NJ I’m going to look into this joining this group…..

    “Sen. Monserrate was expelled from the state senate in February following his conviction for misdemeanor assault of a female companion.” – – – One should noticed that the dumb B!tch has accepted his marriage proposal and I believe they are still engaged…..she’s a FOOL!!!!……<3…Ronnie

    Reply
    • 2. Straight Grandmother  |  February 27, 2010 at 8:07 am

      Ronnie, doncha know? A wife doesn’t ahve to testify against her husband… Dumb like a fox that dirtball is.

      Reply
    • 3. fiona64  |  February 27, 2010 at 8:17 am

      Domestic violence is a complicated dynamic, Ronnie. By the time the physical assaults begin, the verbal and emotional abuse has been going on for a long time. The victim is so beaten down mentally that she (or he, though it is more rare) is afraid to leave. In fact, statistically speaking, the *most* dangerous time for the victim is when she leaves.

      I’ve mentioned before that I am a survivor of domestic violence. My former colleague, Stephanie Rodriguez, was not so fortunate. She had managed to escape her abusive husband and was living with her father. Leo (the husband) went to court and demanded that she be made to return to the town where he lived and keep him apprised of her address. His reason was that “she is keeping me from my children.” Despite Leo’s numerous arrests for spousal battery, the judge concurred.

      Stephanie moved back to Hollister (it’s not far from Monterey) and complied with the judge’s request. She also obtained a handgun … which was stolen when her apartment was broken into.

      Two weeks after that break-in, Leo called Stephanie and told her that their youngest child was with him, that the school had called Leo and asked him to pick up the child because he was ill. Leo asked Stephanie to meet him at a somewhat remote location. Stephanie decided that she would call the school, because that didn’t make any sense to her. She was on the phone with the school when Leo broke her door in.

      Leo was wearing body armor when he shot Stephanie at point-blank range with her own gun. He then killed himself.

      I tell you all of this to say that the courts are not always the allies of DV victims, and that getting away is not as easy as it looks on the surface.

      I regret to say that the last time I saw Stephanie alive was a hot day in July — and she was wearing a long-sleeved turtleneck sweater. I *know* how those garments are used to cover bruises. We were at a meeting, and I never had a chance to talk with her alone and offer to help her. I carry a lot of guilt because I don’t know whether she’d still be alive today if I’d had a chance to do something.

      This is not a made-up story to be an example. It’s true. http://www.freelancenews.com/news/76086-trail-of-abuse-preceded-murder . I wish it weren’t. :-(

      It’s never as easy as “why doesn’t she just leave.” I left my abuser 9 times before I had the guts to make it final.

      Love,
      Fiona

      Reply
      • 4. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:01 am

        Fiona, my father was also abusing my mother….when he was mad at her he would stuff into a closet the size of a refrigerator…I think i said this before…anyway to this day she is still claustrophobic…..The one and only time she road the elevator in the Empire State Building to the top this little boy started counting the floors and she freaked out….I had to hold back from attacking the little boy….although sad it is quite a funny story…she laughs at it now….back on topic…My father forced my mother to have an abortion before me and right after I was born one night after he hit her right in front of me she left him while he was sleeping…like me he’s a deep and heavy sleeper….she took nothing but the clothes on our backs and all his credit cards and maxed them out the next day….he did nothing it she still will not tell me why…

        another short story..I think I may have mentioned this too….My mother s co-worker who was in her late 20’s was also in an abusive relationship called the police on him….when he got out on bail….he stabbed her and she died….so I do know about domestic violence…well that and Ike and Tina or is that Chris and Rhianna….bwaaaaaa…..<3….Ronnie

        Reply
      • 5. Richard Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:47 am

        Yes, and fiona, it is even harder to leave when there are children involved, as there are so many cases where the children are being abused and the victims feel there is no other recourse. Espeically when our system is so screwed up that it protects the rights of the abuser more strongly than it does the rights of the victims. I am sure that you, adn all the others on this site, will agree with me that child abuse is also domestic violence, especially when the perpetrator is someone who is supposed to be a parent. I also want to let you know that yu are not to blame yourself. As survivors of domestic abuse, you and I both know that it not only takes guts to leave and make it final, it also takes years of restorative work on the self-esteem that the abuser has so thoroughly annihilated before one is able to leave and make it final. You did everything you could, but unfortunately, until the victim realizes that he or she is not the one at fault (which is the biggest part of the abuser’s hold) no one is able to help. Thank you for sharing this.♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥

        Reply
      • 6. Sheryl  |  February 27, 2010 at 3:40 pm

        Yes, I also have been there and done that. The thing that finally got me out of the relationship was my son. Two reasons, first, the older he got the more likely he would become the target and the second was that I finally realized that by staying with his dad I was teaching him that it was OK to treat your wife this way.

        It is a very complicated thing. And not easy to get out of and, as fiona64 said, the courts are not always the friends of the abused person.

        However, I certainly hope that he is not re-elected.

        Reply
  • 7. Straight Grandmother  |  February 27, 2010 at 8:06 am

    Good Luck New York! I still think it humiliating that LGBT’s have to go around with their hat in their hand bagging for Equal Rights, …for Civil Rights. The only thing is, those resouces both human and monetary could have been spent on court cases challening the basic civil rights issues. Court cases int he State Courst and court Cases in the Federal Courts. there are many issues that could be the basis of court cases. My duaghter is not allowed to be the legal parent of her children produced by her wife through an ananomous sperm donor. That right there is a court case in Virginia and also another one in Federal Court.

    I guess it doesn’t hurt anything, at a minimum it is a PR moment for us to awaken the indifferent hetrosexuals who are not heavily invested one way or the other. I am more of the opinion of Bill though, what he wrote yesterday. (might have been Bob but I think it is Bill) The fight is better moved off the streets and into the courtrooms.

    Reply
    • 8. Bill  |  February 27, 2010 at 8:58 am

      It was most definitely me preaching about the courts! I’ve been saying it to anyone and everyone who will listen for as long as I can remember.

      The referendums are costing us a fortune. And we lose everytime. Only crazy people would continue to participate in the referendum process when it CLEARLY is not working.

      $40 million was spent by our side on Prop 8. That is money we may as well have flushed down the toilet. That’s as much good it did us.

      So again, I say let these haters pass every single referendum against us they would care to. We will see them in court. Statistically speaking, we will DO BETTER THERE. We CAN’T do worse than we are doing at the polls. So why waste our time and money.

      It is time for us to STOP SEEKING OUR CIVIL RIGHTS FROM THE VERY PEOPLE WHO SEEK TO DENY US OUR CIVIL RIGHTS.

      Who does that? Stupid people.

      We MUST STOP induging these haters by playing their little ‘we’re-better-than-you-are’ game ONCE AND FOR ALL. There should be NOT ANOTHER CENT spent by our side in trying to defend our basic civil rights at the ballot box. AS CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY WE ARE NOT REQUIRED TO DO SO.

      We must ONLY and ALWAYS seek protection from the courts. It is the only way. Without civil rights legislation for LGTB Americans, we will have to fear what will happen to us each and every time an election occurs in this country. That is not legal. The Constitution’s PURPOSE is to protect us from that. IT CAN NOT BE DENIED. It can be understood in different ways, but not denied. Bit at the ballot box, our fellow citizens have shown not only a willingness, but an EAGERNESS to vote OUR EXISITNG RIGHTS away. They are willing to IGNORE THE CONSTITUTION when it comes to their LGTB children. What does that tell us????

      That we NEED THE PROTECTION OF THE COURTS.

      Changing hearts and minds is for fools. Look at history.
      The courts are the way.

      I hate to be redundant, but I am so certain that it’s the way to true success that i have to say it again…

      THE COURTS ARE THE WAY.

      Reply
      • 9. Linda  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:19 am

        Bill, I see your point. It offends me that we should ever have to ask permission to claim our civil rights.

        However, I’m wondering if the courts would be all that favorable to us, if we never stood up for ourselves in the referendums. They might look at the overwhelming vote against us, and our lack of effort, and conclude that it really isn’t that big of an issue.

        Just wondering…..

        I do think that the most effective wins for us will be in the courts. I think that, but I don’t really know anything about the law or government. I guess I’m just basing that on my own life experience as an elem. school teacher. There, the rules keep the majority from persecuting the minority. And if they *do* pick on the minority (you know, the funny-looking kids, or the not-so-bright kids, or the poor kids, or the loner kids….etc., etc.) then the kids who are doing the bullying get in trouble. They are held accountable for their actions. Even that one, lone kid in the class who is the one all the others have decided to despise has equal rights in the eyes of the school.

        Silly comparison, I know, but that’s how it seems to me. It would be nice if a majority agreed that we are people, too; but I definitely look to the courts to step in and settle this fight in our favor. They need to pull that bully off our backs and tell them to leave us alone.

        (Oh dear, I think I’ve been in school too long!)

        Love,
        Linda

        Reply
      • 10. Bill  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:20 am

        Sometime the court will favor us. SOmetimes the court will not favor us.

        Even if it’s 70/30, AT LEAST WE END UP WITH SOMETHING.

        Something besides a $40 million dollar loss and the knowledge that our fellow citizens do not think we are equal to them and want to keep it that way.

        THE COURTS ARE THE WAY!!!!

        Reply
      • 11. Ed-M  |  February 27, 2010 at 11:09 am

        Bill, I see your point, too. But until the courts rule that THE MAJORITY CANNOT VOTE TO TAKE AWAY THE RIGHTS OF THE MINORITY! Oh, wait, that was already done in Rmer v. Evans. Shows that we should have sued the first time any referendum was passed. We will HAVE TO FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE AND WATER! Deconstruct their lies before they are able to trot them out. Deconstruct the lies again after they trot them out. Then slam them as the bigots they are. All the while having a widespread grassroots coming out and visibility campaign to people in all areas. The ones suffering the most and will continue to suffer the most until the hate ends are our fellow LGBTIQQ youth in the homophobic areas dominated by fundevangelical “churches.”

        Reply
    • 12. Bob  |  February 27, 2010 at 12:17 pm

      Okay, so there’s some debate about where to have the fight, in the old days it started on the streets, it just happened that way we were pissed off about our rights being infringed upon and we just acted out, the one thing about going to the streets is we became visible to each other, and through the fear we looked at ourselves and gained strength, we had no concept of taking our action to the court, to overthrow the laws that were written against us.
      Like Rosa Parks, one day you just had enough, you declare yourself eligible for the front seat and take it, It then becomes their job to get you out and prove you don’t belong there. We all know the end of that couragious story.,.
      So yes now we have gained ground through court battles, the point I make is that wherever it is , it’s still a fight, which requires movement on our part, courage on our part, action on our part.
      Perhaps the two go together, but it seems that watching court cases somewhat removes us from the actual process.
      There’s something to be said for rising up, remember fight in this context would be defined by prior civil rights movements,( in a form foreign to the Ha8ters,) non violent,
      We can’t afford to sit smuggly in the comfort of our gay ghettos and think our battles are being fought for us. Like before let’s move out become visible and meet our aggressors, so that we can actually face each other.
      That’s one way to ensure that we become real to each other, actual people, not justy stereotypes, when they hauled Rosa of the bus, it became obvious she was really just a person, real human being that they were dealing with.
      When they marched, it moved white people to see their neighbours become visible and that sight alone changed many minds.

      Reply
  • 13. Straight Grandmother  |  February 27, 2010 at 8:34 am

    I don’t visit other LGBT sites very often, mainly just Courage Campaign. For some reason I decided to check out http://www.MarriageTrial.com today and I noticed that they have the commercials on their website. I don’t know why when they re-enected the trial why they didn’t put that in there for us to see, maybe because they did not have permission. But anyway the links are there.

    I was floored at the commercials. Many of us are not from California so we have never seen these commercials. How sad is all I can say, how very sad. These commercials worked, they swayed people. It made me really sad to watch them.

    Reply
    • 14. Linda  |  February 27, 2010 at 11:27 am

      I agree, SG, the commercials are sad…and maddening on so many levels. The lies are blatant; but the fact that so many otherwise intelligent people believed those lies is even more scary. It’s propaganda at its most effective. These are the lies that need to be exposed, repeatedly.

      I just watched the interview by Bill Moyer with Olson and Boies, and I am encouraged. Bill Moyers is so respected; the fact that he gave this 30 minutes of his airtime is significant. And the discussion was thorough, balanced and comprehensive. I was impressed. Hopefully we will see more of this type of journalism in the coming weeks/months. I do believe that the more we can expose the prejudice and lies of our opponents, the more the moderates will wake up and come to our support.

      Here’s hoping!

      Reply
      • 15. Ed-M  |  February 27, 2010 at 12:01 pm

        Not just the moderates but also the conservatives! Small government and a tyranny of the majority are inherently incompatible. If we get stuck with the tyranny of the majority the hateros win; we and the hetero liberals, moerates and conservatives ALL will lose as the hateros impose their police state on us all.

        We shouldn’t have to beg for toleration and support from the hetero majority but as long as the courts don’t uniformly recognise that WE HAVE CERTAIN UNALIENABLE RIGHTS LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, these rights will still be wrongfully alienated and we will still be vulnerable to homophobic antigay propaganda and HATE. President George Washington told the Jewish congregants of the Touro Synagogue in Newport, RI that because their rights and everybody else’s were universally included into and protected by the Constitution, they were NO LONGER DEPENDENT on the toleration of the non-Jewish majority and that they no longer had to beg. The time has come to RESTORE OUR ALIENATED RIGHTS.

        Reply
      • 16. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 12:04 pm

        “The lies are blatant; but the fact that so many otherwise intelligent people believed those lies is even more scary. It’s propaganda at its most effective.” Yes, I agree Linda, the lies are obvious to anyone with a brain that uses it to think, rather than just filler space. I watched the commercials, when they ran, here in California. Unfortunately, the people, who were swayed by these commercials saw what they wanted to see and then voted, based upon what they saw. <3 David

        Reply
  • 17. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 8:47 am

    So this is the second time this is being mentioned first by dieter on the “Ken Starr” thread and then by me about E.Q. in NJ last week on the “CPAC membership” thread….. but the evidence is blinding:

    http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/chile-earthquake/19376192?ncid=webmaildl1

    Massive Earthquake Hits Chile……”A huge 8.8-magnitude earthquake hit south of Chile’s capital this morning, severing power and phone lines, triggering a tsunami and rattling buildings across South America. So far 82 deaths have been counted and the country’s president said the toll could rise.”

    also

    “A tsunami warning is in effect for neighboring countries of Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, Panama and Costa Rica as well as farther-flung Hawaii, Australia, Russia and Pacific nations. A tsunami advisory was issued for the coast of California and an Alaskan coastal area from Kodiak to Attu islands, The Associated Press reported.”

    Where do I start….
    Chile = not recognized
    Peru = not legalized
    Ecuador = C.U.’s but marriage is man & woman
    Colombia = de facto, but separate is not equal
    Panama = not recognized
    Costa Rica = not recognized
    Hawaii, Australia, & Russia = not legal, not legal, not legal
    California = enough said
    Alaska = enough said

    In the Bible “God” only punishes those who sin not the ones who are doing his good work…..Like S&G which the hateros keep comparing us too….shouldn’t his wrath be falling down upon the people of Canada, Portugal, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden ect. ect. ect…….and Massachusetts, Vermont, Iowa, Connecticut ect. ect. ect…..as well as our fine nations capital, D.C. and the capital of Mexico, Mexico City?

    Nooooooo! it looks like “God” and/or Mother Nature are bringing their wrath down all those who oppose Equality…..bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa…..<3…Ronnie

    Reply
    • 18. Richard W. Fitch  |  February 27, 2010 at 8:58 am

      Well, remember that Job was a virtuous man and look at all the trials he suffered.

      Reply
    • 19. Richard Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:53 am

      This just in! Hawaii is now bracing for a Tsunami. Remember, Hawaii recently voted against SSM. Coincidence? As Carrie Underwood sings in “The More Boys I Meet”–I Don’t Think So!

      Reply
    • 20. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 10:34 am

      also form aol news:

      “Today’s quake came hours after a smaller 6.9-magnitude one in Japan, where an initial tsunami alert was also issued. There were no reports of major damage.”

      hmm…it seams every time the hateros open their mouths to speak out about Equality….another natural disaster occurs and people die….what a co-winky-dink…yeah?

      I suggest we sacrifice Lauren Ashley tho appease the Gods…..yea?…….<3….Ronnie

      Reply
      • 21. Felyx  |  February 27, 2010 at 7:11 pm

        Does Lauren Ashley have enough fat?….;p

        Reply
    • 22. Kathleen  |  February 27, 2010 at 11:32 am

      My thoughts are with the people of Chile. As so many of us in California know, the magnitude of the quake that has hit is almost incomprehensible. To get perspective, the 8.8 quake that’s just hit Chile has approximately 500 times the energy of the one that hit Haiti (per USGS spokesperson). It was also relatively shallow, increasing the surface damage. I just hope everyone here can try to remember that real human beings are suffering through a horrible tragedy at the moment.

      Reply
      • 23. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 11:36 am

        I concur…and I agree with your last statement….but I’m sure Haggie and Pat Robertson will have something to say about this….<3…Ronnie

        Reply
      • 24. Ed-M  |  February 27, 2010 at 12:03 pm

        Chile is Roman Catholic. Maybe Pat Robertson will manage to alienate ole Mags by blaming the Chileans’ majority religion. One can only hope.

        Reply
  • 25. Richard Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Thank you, Julia. You have just given me another venue to use so that I can leave a legacy that I will be proud of. The same legacy that Courage Campaign and all of my family here on the Trail Tracker are building, which is the legacy of fighting for the triumph of good over evil.

    Reply
    • 26. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 11:47 am

      Apparently the whack job religious jerks in florida can now predict the future. I am posting the news story from today in the “Florida Baptist Witness”

      Please note the date:

      Judge in high-profile Prop 8 case is homosexual
      Mar 9, 2010

      (note that date is 10 days in the future)

      SAN FRANCISCO (BP)—The federal judge in the California Proposition 8 “gay marriage” case apparently is himself a homosexual—a fact that has been known for months by attorneys involved in the case but one that only became public when it was discussed in a San Francisco Chronicle Sunday column.

      The newspaper’s Phillip Matier and Andrew Ross said Judge Vaughn Walker’s sexual preference was the “biggest open secret” in the landmark trial, which could result in “gay marriage” being legalized in all 50 states. Walker, 65, is not married.

      Walker’s homosexuality has been discussed on homosexual blogs ever since he was randomly assigned the case last summer, with many of them asking: Is it true? The attorneys defending Prop 8 in court had heard the rumors, too, and in interviews with reporters either refused to comment or said making it a big issue would not help their case. After all, they had little chance of getting a new judge.

      The Chronicle’s Matier and Ross talked to Walker himself, asking him if he had any concerns about being characterized as gay.

      “No comment,” Walker said.

      But a federal judge who was unnamed subsequently contacted the Chronicle columnists, saying he had talked to Walker and was concerned “people will come to the conclusion that [Walker] wants to conceal his sexuality.”

      “He has a private life and he doesn’t conceal it but doesn’t think it is relevant to his decisions in any case, and he doesn’t bring it to bear in any decisions,” the unnamed judge said.

      The public revelation has both sides in the debate questioning whether it will impact the case’s outcome.

      Conservatives say that Walker—whether he is homosexual or not—already has sided with anti-Prop 8 attorneys in the case.

      Reply
      • 27. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 1:13 pm

        Thank you for posting this story, btw, the wording of the story is nearly word-for-word from the San Francisco Chronicle, which first broke the story. It is ironic the story has the wrong dateline and additionally, I wonder how this affects Florida. <3 David

        Reply
      • 28. Felyx  |  February 27, 2010 at 7:16 pm

        I like the fact that they emphasize that he is unmarried. So either they are pointing out that he is gay or they are pointing out that he is not interested in getting married to a man as he already had an opportunity. Either way it just seems an odd thing to point out!

        Reply
    • 29. Kathleen  |  February 27, 2010 at 11:58 am

      Here’s an episode of Charlie Rose with David Boies discussing the case, aired June 3, 2009. It’s interesting to see Boies’s perspective at the time the suit had just been filed.
      http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/10348

      Reply
      • 30. Kathleen  |  February 27, 2010 at 11:59 am

        Didn’t mean to have this post as part of this thread – was supposed to be a new comment.

        Reply
  • 31. dnitzer  |  February 27, 2010 at 10:09 am

    A must-watch YouTube video showing activists collecting signatures for the http://www.rescuemarriage.org attempt to protect marriage yet again in CA in 2010.

    2010 MARRIAGE PROTECTION ACT Signature Drive

    http://www.rescuemarriage.org

    This one seems to say it all, folks, in ways that make it all too clear what they are about.

    Share it with your friends. ;-)

    Reply
  • 32. Kathleen  |  February 27, 2010 at 11:47 am

    There are two new documents available at the AFER site: Plaintiffs’ Proposed Finding of Fact and Conclusions of Law + Plaintiffs’ Response to Amicus Curiae Filings
    http://www.equalrightsfoundation.org/our-work/legal-filings/

    I know D-I’s filed the same yesterday. I wish the Justia Docket website would update so we could see them. Hasn’t been an update there since Feb 12.

    Reply
    • 33. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 12:05 pm

      Thanx, Kathleen…I just downloaded them to the puter! <3 David

      Reply
    • 34. Kathleen  |  February 27, 2010 at 12:34 pm

      BTW, when reading the Response to the Amicus briefs, when there’s reference to a “Doc #” the document in question can often be found at the Justia Docket site. Unfortunately, there are some omissions at Justia – attachments that should be there but aren’t.

      Reply
      • 35. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 1:15 pm

        Do you have a website reference, Kathleen? I am not very good at navigation any more. <3 David

        Reply
      • 36. Kathleen  |  February 27, 2010 at 1:36 pm

        Here you go
        http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-candce/case_no-3:2009cv02292/case_id-215270/

        As mentioned, some of the briefs are missing, others are embedded within the motion to file, some are mistitled in the attachments, but quite a few are available. If you have trouble finding any particular one, let me know; I’ll be happy to help.

        Reply
  • 37. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    So Virginia has decided to strip gays of all their rights there, and today we see yet another example of what happens to states who deny equality:

    PHILADELPHIA – A van carrying a Temple University dance team to a competition in North Carolina crashed in southern Virginia early Saturday, killing one student and injuring seven others, police said.

    Kammini Ragoopath, 21, of Lansdale, Pa., died after the van veered off Interstate 85 and hit a guardrail in Dinwiddie County, according to Virginia State Police.

    Manisha Modi, a passenger who said she broke part of her jaw and collarbone, called the crash “a freak accident.”

    “There wasn’t anything that was out of control or irresponsible,” Modi, 19, said from the hospital. “There’s no one to blame.”

    Reply
  • 39. Bolt  |  February 27, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    I would expect them to put Ruben Diaz on the top of their list. That guy is a raging religious lunatic who needs his powerful career terminated now, and ten years ago!

    Reply
  • 40. Bob  |  February 27, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    go to-______ http://www.soulforce.org/ and check out the equality ride

    Reply
    • 41. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 4:26 pm

      Breaking news:

      Marie Osmonds 18 year old son just committed suicide by jumping from an 18 story building……

      Reply
      • 42. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 4:46 pm

        WOW – was he gay? I am sorry to hear her son lost his life in this way, but I hope he is happier now than before. <3 David

        Reply
      • 43. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 4:53 pm

        I was wondering the same thing…but I didn’t want to say it first…this isn’t the first time though…he was in rehab for trying to kill himself before….either way Gay straight bi tie……It is sad…and even though I LOATH the Osmonds my thoughts are with them…as a suicide survivor myself….i t had to be rally bad to do it that way…..<3…Ronnie

        Reply
      • 44. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 5:00 pm

        Yes, I concu, Ronnie. I, too, am a sucide survivor! I was much younger and very naive, I saw my world remaining static, which is of course not true. <3 David

        Reply
      • 45. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 5:01 pm

        He left a note saying he felt he had no friends and that is why he jumped.
        Also to the gay thing. No he was not, but Marie does have a daughter who is gay, and contrary to what many articles have written about it, Marie has stated emphatically that she supports her daughters right to get married to whomever she wishes, and even went so far as to do a poster ad in which she denounced the Mormon churches decision to project so much money to the anti-gay prop 8 effort!

        Reply
      • 46. Kathleen  |  February 27, 2010 at 5:01 pm

        I’m so sorry to hear this. As a parent, it’s just too painful to contemplate losing a child.

        I don’t know if he was gay; I do know she has a lesbian daughter and has taken a public pro gay civil rights position.

        Reply
      • 47. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 5:08 pm

        I am a little relieved to know that about Marie…I didn’t know that….but I’m sure they haven’t disclosed the entire note….it has got to be more then I don’t have any friends…I mean to do it the way he did…its very effective….<3…Ronnie

        Reply
      • 48. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 5:13 pm

        Yes, I agree,. there has certainly got to be more from the note, that is not disclosed, however I am sure they derserve their privacy in this matter. <3 David

        Reply
      • 49. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 5:18 pm

        True they need their privacy..but since they are celebrities they won’t get it….The Jacksons didn’t…those poor kids where hounded….<3…Ronnie

        Reply
      • 50. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 5:25 pm

        “Also to the gay thing. No he was not, but Marie does have a daughter who is gay, and contrary to what many articles have written about it, Marie has stated emphatically that she supports her daughters right to get married to whomever she wishes, and even went so far as to do a poster ad in which she denounced the Mormon churches decision to project so much money to the anti-gay prop 8 effort.”
        dieter – what is your source for this information, which I have included with the post?

        Reply
      • 51. Richard Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  February 27, 2010 at 5:32 pm

        Could it be that the LDS church was hounding him because of his sister, and also because of Maries’s very public stance in favor of marriage equality? I still remember Marie including him in her video for “No Stopping Your Heart.” My heart goes out to them.♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥

        Reply
      • 52. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 5:40 pm

        dieter, I have searched the Internet and can find no story about her son commiting suicide. Additionally, I can find no confirmation that her daughter is indeed gay.<3 David

        Reply
      • 53. fiona64  |  February 28, 2010 at 9:45 am

        David K., it is true and I have verified it via MSM sources.

        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35619717/ns/entertainment-celebrities/

        We have GOT to talk about mental health issues, people. The main reason folks don’t reach out, as I said, is the *shame* attached to being mentally ill.

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
  • 54. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Reply
    • 55. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 5:14 pm

      I watched this movie several days ago on Sundance Channel and it was very moving…this is the trailer to to the movie. <3 David

      Reply
    • 56. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 5:35 pm

      David, You can simply Google Marie Osmond gay daughter, and you will find many stories that state exactly what I said was true. It really is getting annoying to have my posts questioned incessantly in here.

      Don’t know why I come back here.

      whatever..I am outta here.

      Reply
      • 57. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 5:45 pm

        Thanx, dieter, I didn’t mean to question your facts, only that I could not find a link to story in any web searches I had done. BTW- here is a link to the story –
        http://www.seattlepi.com/tvguide/415983_tvgif27.html
        <3 David

        Reply
      • 58. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 5:45 pm

        Oh dieter…please don’t be like that….just post a link next time…Like I said i’ve been Q’ed when I posted something without siting it….you do contribute a lot…..look you started a convo…about Marie Osmond…and I learned something good about her….Now I only Loath her as an entertainer but not as a person…unlike the Hateros I can separate the two…..but just goes to show you another celebrity that doesn’t agree with them…I mean what is that?….why can they only get ditzy blonde beauty queens to follow them?…I’m just saying….<3….Ronnie

        Reply
      • 59. Straight Grandmother  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:01 pm

        dieter, ease up a bit. I am not saying this in a mean way but just as an obervation, you are a little thin skinned around here sometimes. A lot of times we llike to go look it up ourselves as we are curious just like you are. So if you find a good story somewhere perhaps if you just included the link so we can check it out in depth ourselves it would save us from having to question you about where you got the information.

        Also when I post “Really” 99% of the time it is meant as in a, Really- I am surprised, rather than, Really- I don’t trust you.

        Stick around you add value to the conversation.

        Reply
      • 60. Felyx  |  February 27, 2010 at 7:26 pm

        Dieter, please just post websites as you announce new information. It is a courtesy. That is all it is. No one is questioning that you are right or not, we are asking that you share the website so that we can see for ourselves. Common courtesy is what we are asking for.

        Sincerely,
        Felyx

        Reply
  • 61. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    In light if all the natural disasters and suicides that are occurring….just know it is not our fault….no matter what the Hateros say…notice that they only occur when they speak out against Equality and Love….coincidence?….I think Not…..My thoughts are with ALL the victims of nature both human, plant, and animal….and to those touched by suicides with all good intentions I actually do Love you as my fellow Human Brothers and Sisters…. “I ain’t giving up on Love”…….<3….Ronnie:

    Reply
  • 62. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    “I will explain to everyone who thinks Marie is for Gay rights. Marie believes what the Mormons say when they say that it’s ok for young Mormons to be Gay, but not to act on thier desires. This is what Miss Osmond believes. It is ok for Jessica to be a Lesbian as long as she doesn’t kiss her Girlfriend in front of Marie and as long as she doesn’t want to marry her girlfriend. as you can see, Marie isn’t totally for Gay Rights.”

    I found this somewhat interesting quote about Marie that I think more adequately applies to her, than the story that Marie supports gay marriage. <3 David

    Reply
    • 63. Straight Grandmother  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:09 pm

      Good for the goose is good for the gander…I guess it is okay to be hetrosexaul as long as you don’t act on it! Come on Marie…

      Reply
      • 64. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:16 pm

        That is what they believe – I used to be Mormon – even did a 2 year mission for them, when I was 19 years old and so very naive! <3 David

        Reply
      • 65. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:21 pm

        well it seems to me that you could save alot of time by simply TYPING in the words into ANY search engine, rather than attacking me for my posts and insinuating that I am making shit up. and as to your thin skinned comment…don’t even TRY to guess what I am thinking or feeling..you have no clue who I am or what my thoughts are.

        Reply
    • 66. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:12 pm

      http://www.afterelton.com/people/2009/5/marie-osmond?page=0%2C1

      Here is a link to the story I found on the Internet about her daughter. <3 David

      Reply
    • 67. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:24 pm

      Simply not true.. Marie whole heartedly supports her daughters right to marry ANY person she chooses.
      and now since everything I say is disputed by people who refuse to look up facts on their own…you can all kindly KISS it….I am off to a site where adults can do the work themselves, and do not consistently cast aspersion on other posters…
      to assume that all people are anti gay because of their religion is no better than people who say all gays are bad people…enjoy your little stone throwing site. It has clearly gone to hell since it started….
      buh-bye…

      Reply
      • 68. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:36 pm

        You know what now you offended me dieter…..everybody has supported you….and where did that religion thing come from?….nobody said anything about religion….and nothing has changed about this site other then the trolls bogglins being gone….everybody either posts the article or the link to make things easier for the other people who apart of this community…thats what we do for each other….Its common courtesy…you know dieter some people on here are at work and don’t have the time to google but are really interested…..you are being a little mean….<3…Ronnie

        Reply
      • 69. Linda  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:51 pm

        Here’s another link re: Marie Osmond and her daughter. It’s a phone interview.

        http://www.towleroad.com/2009/05/marie-osmond-on-gay-rights-and-her-lesbian-daughter.html

        Reply
      • 70. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:54 pm

        well RONNIE..you don’t have to worry about me anymore. and as to the religion thing..either you are a flat out liar or you cannot read….doesn’t matter.
        good luck in your little snipey gossip rag that you all have turned this site into.
        I have found another site where people are capable of LOOKING facts up on their own without attacking others or doubting their contributions.
        and if that site turns into anything like what this site has turned into, then I will just jump off my own 18 story building…because this is BS.

        not everyone is a youtube wizard like you are…nor is everyone capable of knowing how to include certain links. I guess the room will just have to rely on computer experts like you to do that work for them. Good luck to all of you. I’m OUT!

        Not knowing how to include some links is NOT being mean..attacking someone for not doing so is being mean..and you sir are the queen of doing that.
        ta-ta.

        Reply
      • 71. Linda  |  February 27, 2010 at 7:01 pm

        Dieter–it took me the longest time to learn how to do that. Actually, my girlfriend finally showed me how.
        1.Go up to the top of your screen where the http info is.
        2.click on that once
        3. then right click
        4. find the word ‘copy’ and click on that.
        5. then open up the site where you want to put that info. (like in the comments window on this site)
        6. click where you want the link to go.
        7. then right click
        8. find the word ‘paste’ and click on that.

        And that’s how it’s done. If you have troubles, just say so. Trust me, many of us are struggling with the same stuff.

        Love,
        Linda

        Reply
      • 72. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 7:25 pm

        You know what dieter…I have been your biggest supporter on this site…I have sited you and agreed with you…so to attack me like that when I have never done that to you is 100% disrespectful to me…You know how to copy and paste…you’ve done it before….you have posted links before….so don’t say you don’t know how to do it….you know how to copy and paste…everybody knows how to copy and paste….and I am not a computer expert if you noticed a few days ago I posted a question because I was having a problem posting videos and seeing them on youtube….but I do know how to copy and paste…just like you do….and gossip is when you print something without having the facts or siting anything….that is what you do…but you did stop that for a few days and you where siting and posting articles…so I don’t see what the problem is other then people wondering what you posted was true or not…they have done it to me…but I’m not acting like a baby because somebody Q.ed me…everybody else posts links and articles that actually back up what they post…when they post things like you did…..i have only been mean to those who were attacking all of us on this site…including to those who were attacking you…and this is how you treat me?….by insulting me?…that’s nice…really nice….thank you for that….that wasn’t mean at all….what did I say about Marie other then I LOATHE her as an entertainer….I never said anything about her religion…and I have never attacked anybody about their religion unless the were using it to attack me which is a sin…so calling me a liar is another insult….and obviously I can read because I read your comments about natural disasters that I agreed with you on and nobody has attacked her for her religion…they mentioned the LDS in which she belongs too….who are Homophobic….I don’t what has happened in the last 2 days for you to do a complete 180 on the way you approach this site…but whatever…if you want to go…then go….nobody is stopping you…I wish you would stay and act like you were the other day…and not this person who is starting to insult everybody…..<3…Ronnie

        Reply
      • 73. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 7:40 pm

        well Einstein..if you had payed any attention at ALL to anything I have posted, you will note that any link I knew how to post was from youtube, or a page where the link was already provided..the fact that you say everyone knows how to copy and paste shows how young and ignorant and self entitled you are. you are wrong.. not everyone knows how to do this…some of us were not brought up in a school age where all our work was done through a computer..some of us had to actually read books to get our information… so up yours and your little queeny attitude…. I could care less what you have to say about me..you have no idea about who I am or what I know or don’t know…

        your rants are the real reason so many straight people hate gays…you act like you know everything about everyone. you need to stop that. You have NO clue about what I know..but I guarantee you one thing..at my age, I assure you that I have already forgotten more than you will EVER even know about life, and the history of the gay movement.

        Reply
      • 74. Linda  |  February 27, 2010 at 7:44 pm

        Dieter–All of this could have been avoided if you’d just asked how to post a link. We would have been happy to help. Instead you chose to be offended. That’s too bad.

        Reply
      • 75. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 7:51 pm

        dieter WTF is your problem…why are you attacking me…I have never done that to you….You just said it yourself you posted links…you know how to do it…you just don’t want too…also you keep saying your leaving but you are not….and then you say I know nothing about you and then go and say that I don’t as much about the Gay movement that you do…implying that you know everything about me….you are being a hypocrite….every last thing you just posted to reply to me was an insult…I’ve never done that to you…. you assume to know that I don’t read books….again you are saying that you know this about me…and you are one of those gay people…all these rants that you just posted are no different….It is really nice that you are treating me like this…someone who has agreed with you and supported you….I actually thought we were friends on this site…..but thank you for showing that you are bigger Drama Queen then anybody on this site….<3…Ronnie

        Reply
      • 76. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 8:19 pm

        LOL//calling me a drama queen..It was not ME who “tried” to commit suicide first of all…that is pure drama by definition…secondly, I do know how to copy and paste a YOUTUBE link…why does that not sink in to your tiny little queen brain?..I do NOT however know how to post a link when I am on a page that I simply googled, which is something that the members of THIS room are apparently too lazy to do.
        Maybe next time before you ASSUME that everyone knows everything that YOU do, you will stop and think before you attack…I am done with you. you clearly are not a rational thinking person. and I will post whatever I want in here, and if you don’t believe my posts then you all can simply leave this safety net for 5 seconds and do what I do..and look it up yourselves.
        you have all attacked me for not posting a link to my news posts, saying it is an inconvenience…yet you are all way more than willing to spend more time complaining about my lack of links than it would actually take you to just look it up yourselves.
        I will continue to post news stories here, fore those people who have an interest in learning something..and anyone who is upset about the lack of a link needs to just get the hell over it.

        Reply
      • 77. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 8:50 pm

        WOW!….Are you even dieter?…..you got huffy and puffy because a few people asked you to post a link….all you had to do was say I can’t or I don’t know how too…but you reply by insulting people…no thats not dramatic at all….if the tiara fits…….and really nice of you to mention that me trying to commit suicide is dramatic…now I’m convinced that you are nothing but a heartless POS…..can you tell us where this other “website” that is supposedly so much better then this one?…and why hasn’t anybody else on here mentioned it before?…..so me agreeing with your natural disaster theory is irrational?…well since you brought it up first on the “Ken Starr” thread that would make you an irrational thinker….and what are you doing?…taking all this time to insult people…when you could just post f-ing article…..”any link I knew how to post was from youtube, or a page where the link was already provided”….you admitted to knowing how to post a link….and you have posted links….you have copied and pasted articles….I also thanked you for starting the convo about Marie therefore teaching me something I didn’t know about her and her support of us…but you ignored that and insulted me instead….your gen. created that word “queen” not mine…and since you are “done” with me (the one person who actually had respect for you until tonight)…I would say that you are not going to reply but you already did to a comment that was not even in reference to you…but to each his own…<3…Ronnie

        Reply
      • 78. Straight Grandmother  |  February 28, 2010 at 4:06 am

        Linda or it might have been David Kimbal there is so much irrelevant postings I can’t find that link to the raido interview and I don’t remember which on of you psoted the link but anyway.. thanks for the link to the radio interview of Marie Osmond. I listened to it and I heard her say twice, I believe in civil rights, and civil rights are for everybody. She says my daughter knows how I feel about my religion but I believe also in civil rights for everybody. She also cautions everyone not to hate.

        A little cross generational comment here. Isac Newton said “We stand on the shoulders of giants” meaning we give props (and for those who don’t know and have to look it up like I did, props means proper respect) to those who came before us, we stand on their shoulders and they were giants.

        Here is a little bit of information from the one I remember the most from the 1980’s and 90’s-

        Nonviolent direct action has been an integral part of the renewed activism in the lesbian and gay community since 1987, when ACT UP (AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power) was formed. ACT UP and other groups have organized hundreds of civil disobedience actions across the country, focusing not only on AIDS but on the increasing climate of homophobia and attacks on lesbians and gay men. On October 13, 1987, the Supreme Court was the site of the first national lesbian and gay civil disobedience action, where nearly 600 people were arrested protesting the decision in Hardwick vs. Bowers, which upheld sodomy laws. This was the largest mass arrest in D.C. since 1971.

        Now I look at X & Y generation, the generation of my children in their 20’s and 30’s. Awsome generation, awesome. For the most part I see that they came out in their 20’s. They are not in the closet and especially after Mathew Sheprerd was murdered in 1997 they did and are ratcheting up the activism to gain their civil rights and respect and recognition from society.

        Because of the Giants who came before them I see this generation, unbleivably coming out in their teens now. Look as Cassie who posts here sometimes, she is in her teens and she is out and not ashamed of who she is. Our family friend he also came out in high school ,after the milenium. Kids are coming out now in High School instead of college.

        And speaking of giants, think of Boies & Olson and their shoulders who we are now able to stand on. And they are not even gay. But it was the work of the generations previous that brought Boies and Olson to their current opinions.

        I am proud of whatever I accomplish but also I do not forget that I stand on the shoulders of others. Marie Osmond would NOT be saying what she is saying today in regards to her lesbian daughter if there was not a whole lot of people who came before (and today there are even more) and spent a whole lot of personal capital raising the level of conscienceness and acceptence of society. I do think THIS generation the young people are going to finish the job that others started. And when they finish they will be standing on the shouldes of Giants.

        Reply
      • 79. Linda  |  February 28, 2010 at 9:13 am

        SG–It was Kathleen who posted the link first, I believe. But here it is. This interview is well worth watching. It’s 30 minutes, but Olson and Boies state our case so beautifully, and Moyers interviews so impartially it really is quite satisfying to watch.

        Thanks, Kathleen for the original link!

        http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/02262010/profile.html

        Reply
      • 80. fiona64  |  February 28, 2010 at 9:47 am

        Dieter, I am very concerned about you. If you are FB, would you please PM me? I’m listed under my real name there (it’s on the P8TT group site).

        Thank you.

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
      • 81. Ed-M  |  March 1, 2010 at 10:47 pm

        @Straight Grandmother post 78: Indeed, Generation X and Y do stand on the shoulders of Giants… Harry Hay, Frank Kameny, Harvey Milk, Larry Kramer, Harvey Fierstein, to name a few (even Mike Wallace who brought “The Homosexuals” http://www.towleroad.com/2010/02/1967.html into the livingrooms and parlors of middle America, which actually was very progressive for its time since previously people thought of gay men as creeps who prey on teenage boys as in “Boys Beware!” and were ripe for further demonisation of gay men), and now Boies and Olsen are the Giants who will help put us over the top with their AIRTIGHT CASE which has come in the nick of time since it appears that the Reeps will take back the House and Senate in 2010 and the Oval Office in 2012. Hopefully by that time the Religious Reicht will be a lot weaker than it is now… but I DO know the LGBT will be STRONGER! And we won’t have to fight them with both hands tied behind our back!

        Reply
      • 82. Ed-M  |  March 1, 2010 at 10:50 pm

        And here’s “Boys Beware!”

        Reply
    • 83. Ed-M  |  February 28, 2010 at 2:55 am

      @David Kimble post 60: If this is true, maybe her 18-year old son was gay. Even the message “it’s okay to be gay so long as you don’t act on it” condemns those LGBTIQQ people who buy into it to a lifetime of loveless, sexless monotony. And who can go through life without love?

      Reply
    • 84. Ed-M  |  February 28, 2010 at 3:06 am

      There were rumors back in ’06 that Marie sent him to rehab for being gay. In other words, a Mormon “pray away the gay” camp.

      http://jjb.yuku.com/topic/187713

      http://majikthise.typepad.com/majikthise_/2006/06/daughters_inter.html

      Reply
  • 85. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    OMG…..I can’t wait….Evan Lysacek and Johnny Weir are skating in the Olympic Expedition tonight were they can really let loose….I think I might OGM….Evan is soooooo HOTTTT!!!!…..and when Johnny just lets it go..he is sex on Ice…Woah sorry I just went all school boy on you guys…..but OMG!!!!!…..DON”T JUDGE ME!!…<3…Ronnie

    Reply
  • 86. Straight Grandmother  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    In reading the reponse to the defendents amicus briefs our side makes a very good point. They point out, there is anti discrimination protection based on your religion and religion is not immutable. We are asking for protected status, and the other side says you can’t have it because being gay is not immutable, you can change from gay to hetro. It is a good point- being gay does not have to be immutable (although we know it is), religion is not immutable and it is protected.

    I finally had to quit at page 150 on the finding of fact document. I’ll go back to it tomorrow and finish.

    Reply
    • 87. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:14 pm

      Thanx Straight Grandmother, I have been wading through the briefs a little bit at a time – they can give me a headache really fast, if I don’t slow down and read them. <3 David

      Reply
    • 88. Kathleen  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:53 pm

      The immutability argument comes up in the question of what level of scrutiny should be applied when courts review discriminatory laws. Strict scrutiny, the highest level, is applied whenever the law targets a “suspect class” or impinges on a fundamental right. One of the prongs in determining a suspect class is that the characteristic that defines the class is “immutable”.

      It’s not necessary to claim that religion is immutable in order to trigger strict scrutiny. Religious freedom is a fundamental right and thus any law restricting religious practice will always have to pass the highest level of scrutiny for that reason.

      Reply
  • 89. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    BTW, someone posted a David Boies interview he did back in May? (I think) and it was great! He has such a clear mind for the facts of law and precedent! <3 David

    Reply
  • 90. David Kimble  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    Night all…I need to take my meds and go to bed…take care and I do apolgize to dieter…I didn’t mean to question his facts, only that I couldn’t find it. <3 David

    Reply
    • 91. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:24 pm

      Good night David K…….TTYL……<3…Ronnie.

      Reply
  • 92. Linda  |  February 27, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    I love this quote by David Boies in the Bill Moyer interview.

    DAVID BOIES: You can’t say the religious doctrine is wrong. Religious doctrine is a doctrine of belief. And I don’t think either Ted or I or anybody would say that the Archbishop or the Southern Baptists don’t have the right to believe whatever they believe. And our Constitution, the First Amendment, guarantees them that right of freedom of conscience and freedom of religious beliefs.

    But that same First Amendment, in the anti-establishment clause part of that Amendment, says that they cannot impose those religious beliefs on other people. No one is saying that the Southern Baptist Church or the Catholic Church or any other Church ought to marry people who they don’t want to marry. However, what we are saying is that no religious group, no matter how numerous, should be able to pass a law that says the state will only sanction marriages that we religiously approve of. That’s the separation between church and state that our Constitution has always guaranteed.

    Reply
  • 93. RAY in MA  |  February 27, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Off topic, but…

    This is what we had to deal with in Massachusetts:

    We succeeded, I hope you in California succeed as well.

    Reply
    • 94. Linda  |  February 27, 2010 at 7:40 pm

      Ray–that is unbelievable. I’m so glad you succeeded! Congratulations!

      Reply
    • 95. Ed-M  |  February 28, 2010 at 3:26 am

      Bait and switch tactics… ^@^%@^%$^ ends-justifies-the-means “Christians”… they are accused of fraud all over the country… if they were collecting signatures to limit the rights of any other minority the initiative petitions would have been thrown out with prejudice… and what really galls me is that they sleep like babies!!! @$$HOLES!!!!

      Reply
    • 96. Straight Grandmother  |  February 28, 2010 at 7:46 am

      That news report about the fruadently garnered signatures is pretty shocking. However I tend to think it is more the efforts of the on the street worker and his/her boss in the business to commit the fraud simply because of financial gain than the orgainization who hired them to collect signatures. Yeah it is shocking, really shocking especially when they interviewed the poeple who signed and they said they never would have signed the second petition.

      Reply
    • 97. Ronnie  |  February 28, 2010 at 12:53 pm

      Those sneaky little Hateros…..and they say we are the one deceiving….we are the ones who are lying….we are the ones pushing an agenda…..pift…..as if…..<3…Ronnie

      Reply
  • 98. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    1st I can’t help it if I grew up in the technology age….Just as I didn’t choose to be Gay…I didn’t choose when to be born….Lets get things straight…my generation didn’t create computers, internet, copy & paste, iPhones, kindles, iPads, …..yours did….so either accept it STFU!!!!!…..My generation doesn’t take no for an answer….my generation are the ones getting arrested for you….It is young Gay people who are being attacked and murdered….True you had stonewall…..but WTF have you done since then?….Now my generation has to step in where you left off….we are going backwards not forwards….A whole bunch of old bureaucrats making the choices for the young…but the young are the ones who have to deal with the fallout…..My generation is the Now Generation ….we are controlled by no one… we are the ones who are going to FORCE those Hateros to SHUT THE FU<K UP!!!!!….I'm not an old bitter jaded Queen like somebody on here has descided to all of sudden start acting like one…but whatever…This 21st century American has got a message for you…TAKE IT BETCH!!!!…..<3….Ronnie:

    Reply
    • 99. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 8:44 pm

      First you have ZERO idea how old I am…secondly you have lost your mind..maybe as a result of your failed attention seeking stunt of a failed attempted suicide. Third, you have not helped anybody by coming in here and posting everybody else’s youtube videos in here…that is hardly getting arrested for a cause, and until you know who I am or what I have accomplished or dealt with, or how hard I worked for your right to act like an overgrown 12 year old drama queen, then I suggest it is YOU who needs to shut the F up…you have a lovely day now little girl.
      and by the way: that’s MR. BITCH to you – little girl

      and just in case you are still too oncompetant to finish a job, there are MANY sites on youtube where they give instructions on how to actually succeed at suicide. nite nite….

      Reply
      • 100. Linda  |  February 27, 2010 at 8:52 pm

        Dieter–IMHO you’ve crossed the line. Your attacks are uncalled for, and I cannot sit here and do nothing while you visciously attact one of our community. Please stop!

        Reply
      • 101. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:02 pm

        This site has turned to trash, and there needs to be a mute button or an ignore system here.
        and there needs to be an age limit or an IQ test or something as well……

        Reply
      • 102. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:05 pm

        the word is incompetent….and you are ASSuming you know why I tried to commit suicide 3 times….i really don’t think you’ve done anything because instead of implying that you’ve done something you would actually post it like every other person on here that has told their stories….second you ASSumed that was directed at you….but I didn’t mention your name….did I mention your name?

        but since you ASSumed to know why I tried to commit suicide I let you know why even though you think you know why:

        The first time I swallowed a brand new bottle of pills because I realized I was Gay and that it was a sin

        The second time was a brand new bottle of cough syrup because instead of shooting up my school because people called my all the derogatory names that come from the older generations for those who are Gay…on a daily basis being threatened and told I am going to Hell

        The 3rd was a pillow smothering myself because a kid at school threatened to kill me….If my mother had not decided to come home from work early and spent 20 minutes trying to pull the pillow off of my face I would be dead….

        but I think it is so great that you can make fun of somebody trying to take their own life…it really shows what your intent was in posting that Marie Osmonds son committed suicide….JMHGO….<3…Ronnie

        Reply
      • 103. Linda  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:05 pm

        All this because you were asked to post a link?

        Reply
      • 104. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:07 pm

        and Linda I find it awfully funny how you suddenly cannot sit there and watch me “attack” ronnie, yet amazingly you were silent when HE attacked me…. I guess being a little drama queen wanna be has its perks. you betcha!!!

        clue: don’t like my posts?…are not capable of looking up information on your own?…then simply do not read my posts or respond to them. Problem solved.
        I have better things to do than argue with an undereducated clueless little queenie twink who thinks he knows it all…

        very simple..read above and see who started name calling….good night now.
        I am off to the ADULT conversation site, where people are adults and act like they are.

        Reply
      • 105. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:11 pm

        Ronnie, if you can’t kill yourself after 3 attempts, it is clear you never had any intention of doing so. It was all a sad attempt to garner attention.

        and Linda: No I was not asked to provide a link I was called a liar, and also disrespectful for not posting one. big difference there. but I guess you missed that part, or simply chose to ignore that.

        Reply
      • 106. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:13 pm

        umm you attacked me first…you insulted me…you insulted my intelligence..you insulted the fact that I, like many of the people on this site, tried to commit suicide for the very reasons that was mentioned in court….I thanked you…I agreed with you…I respected you…until tonight when all of a sudden you are the one going on a B!TCH fit….you also said you were “done” with me….QUESS NOT!!!!

        Reply
      • 107. Linda  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:15 pm

        Dieter–I agree with you; I think it’s time you leave this site.

        Reply
      • 108. Ed-M  |  February 28, 2010 at 3:43 am

        OMG!!! Dieter, that was totally, utterly uncalled for!

        Ronnie, you have my sympathies. It looks like your classmates put you through the wringer! If I had to go through daily harassment like you did, I don’t even think I’d still be alive!

        We LGBTIQQA people should not be attacking each other on this thread; we should not be attacking each other PERIOD!!!

        On the activism front: Right after I got out of the Boston Church of Christ in 89 I was in the streets with Act-Up. SILENCE EQUALS DEATH!!!! I went to the 93 March on DC.

        And then… not much since then! But last October I had to leave a job because I couldn’t be out in the field of work I was in and it was taking a toll on my psyche. And now I’m here…

        Reply
      • 109. Ronnie  |  February 28, 2010 at 9:05 am

        Thank you Ed-M…..most of that was in my younger years….by junior year things settled down and I was apart of the popular crowd…..the last one was my senior year…I already posted the full story so I’m not going to post it again

        To Linda….Thank you and if you look above the name calling started at #69…..and pretty much at the end of every post he says “I’m out of here…I’m not coming back to this site”…..I guess not….but whatever…..<3…Ronnie

        Reply
      • 110. JQ  |  March 11, 2010 at 12:29 pm

        I have been following this trial since the beginning. I waited expectantly for each new blog post. I have the RSS feed. I have read through thousands of comments. I have followed every link. I have cried about the injustices, I have laughed out loud, I have pondered issues that had never occurred to me, I have passed this information on to anyone and everyone who would listen. And although I have not been a frequent poster, I have been grateful for the supportive community that has sprung up on the message boards and for the inspiring and enlightening comments you have made. Overall it has been a wonderful and educational experience.

        For a group of individuals so passionate about the fight for equality and who relish in breaking stereotypical gender norms, I am surprised by the misogyny and sexism that crops up. Using ‘little girl’ as a negative and an insult is unacceptable, but it isn’t the only instance I’ve noticed. I could go through and quote individual instances, but what has been read cannot be unread. And frankly, I don’t have the time or energy to devote to scouring through the huge number of comments on each blog post. And thankfully, in such a significant volume of comments, only a handful has made me cringe, or cry, or rage. But those are the comments I am addressing now because I do not understand how they appeared on this forum.

        It is the same fight. The people who want to keep homosexuals in the closet are the same people who want to keep women in the home. It is tradition after all. The people who beat gays to ‘keep them in line’ also beat women to ‘keep them in line’. Because by keeping GLBT individuals and women ‘in line’ traditional gender roles are maintained. And that is the only way to keep us down and out of power.

        I am offended. And I am hurt that I feel the need to defend myself in a community where we are all fighting to express ourselves as we please. Whatever your sexual orientation, whatever your gender, whatever your sex, how you choose to present yourself to the world and how you live your identity is up to you.

        Both, the Gay Rights movement and the Feminist movement, are fights to express our identities freely and to have equal access to the political, social, and professional spheres. And the only way we will win this fight is by fighting together. Together.

        So cut it out already!

        Reply
      • 111. Kathleen  |  March 11, 2010 at 12:52 pm

        @JQ – thank you for taking the time to post and for so eloquently reminding us all that this is, among other things, a struggle for liberation from stereotypes. And I use the word struggle intentionally, because this is both a public fight and a personal struggle. Even those of us who have been the object of stereotyping are sometimes still guilty of stereotyping others.

        My own experience has been that, in the world at large, I have encountered far more discrimination for simply being a woman than for being a bi woman. And as I’ve said here before, I encounter nearly as much prejudice and stereotyping within the glbt community as I do outside of it, for being bi.

        Again, thank you for posting and I hope that if I ever say anything that serves to perpetuate these hurtful and damaging assumptions about people, that you or someone else will be there to remind me that I need to do some self reflection.

        Reply
      • 112. JQ  |  March 11, 2010 at 1:10 pm

        @Kathleen

        Thank you for your kind words. I really struggled with the words I needed to get my feelings out while still maintaining the civility needed for such a forum.

        And thank you again for pointing out that we all need reminders sometimes. It’s easy to fall back on assumptions and stereotypes -I have done it myself. It truly is a constant struggle.

        As for your middle paragraph, I could quote it word for word and say it as my own. I completely agree, but it is comforting to know that I’m not the only one experiencing the too queer/not queer enough standard.

        Reply
      • 113. Richard Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  March 11, 2010 at 1:49 pm

        @JQ and @Kathleen. I want to thank both of you for your most recent posts on this thread. And I for one am glad to know that I am not the only one who keeps getting accused of not being gay enough to bepart of the LGBTQQIA family. You see, I don’t walk very swishily, I know how to change and/or rotate the tires on my car, I can do certain minor maintenance tasks on my car and around the house (I recently replaced a 26-year-old deadbolt and door lock on the front door after they died) and I don’t dress in drag much. So yes, I have joked that if I keep this up, I will never get my copy of the gay handbook. Do I slip nd make remarks that may not be proper? I’m sure I do. Do I appreciate it when you let me know so that I can see what led to it and reflect so that I don’t do it again? YES! Thank you again. YOu two are ladies in all of the best meanings of that word, and I am so proud to know both of you, and all the others I have met on this site.♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
        Richard

        Reply
  • 114. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:14 pm

    What fu<king part of if my mother had not come home when she did I would have died…. did you not fu<king get you idiot?

    Reply
  • 115. Ronnie  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    Additionally:

    asked from David K: “what is your source for this information”…..he asked you for the link

    I never said you were lying….you assumed I did….after you posted it I did google it and I commented on the what may be the case….I didn’t post any link because i didn’t bring up the story…you did…. and there is a possibility that it has no relevance to this blog so I didn’t post the links…..but whatever.

    Reply
  • 116. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    look..here is a news story and a link (now that I know how to do it) for all you lazy people who require others to do the work for you.:

    http://www.cbs8.com/global/story.asp?s=12057474

    Reply
    • 117. Kathleen  |  February 27, 2010 at 9:37 pm

      I sure wish there was somewhere to get a copy of the Proponents’ filings. I wonder if Courage Campaign can get a copy somehow. I think they’re public records.

      Reply
    • 118. cc  |  February 27, 2010 at 10:21 pm

      Thank you! Lol, yes I am one of those lazy people!

      Reply
      • 119. dieter  |  February 27, 2010 at 11:07 pm

        LOL..now maybe that I know how to copy a link from a web page, I will stop getting attacked for not posting links… doubt it, but we shall see..

        Reply
    • 120. PDXAndrew  |  February 28, 2010 at 12:24 am

      Thank you :)

      In the article, it says the H8ers “offered new twists”. I can see how the polygamy claim could arise from SSM, but I can’t see how SSM would give “unmarried fathers an incentive to abandon their children.” That makes no sense.

      Love, Andrew

      Reply
    • 121. Ed-M  |  February 28, 2010 at 3:52 am

      “In papers filed late Friday, lawyers for the sponsors of California’s gay marriage ban offered new twists on their claim that allowing gay men and lesbians to wed could undermine man-woman unions.

      “The potential harms they cited included giving bisexuals a legal basis for pursuing group marriages and unmarried fathers an incentive to abandon their children.”

      OMG!!! They really are so desperate that they’ll literally pull stuff out of their @$$ to butress their arguments!!! Recognizing same-sex marriage will give bisexuals no more a legal case to pursue group marriages than banning same-sex marriages would give polygamists like the FLDS cult a legal case to pursue “plural” marriages. In fact, the defense arguments in the coutroom (Blankenhorny IIRC) would help them seal the deal!!! And their second claim that ssm would encourage fathers to abandon their kids is at both ludicrous – more straight dads would abandon their kids??? – and hateful because it;s directed at gay dads who have/had kids through an opposite-sex marriage.

      Reply
      • 122. David Kimble  |  February 28, 2010 at 8:18 am

        This is nothing new…they have been grasping at straws, since the trial began. Sorry about the link that didn’t work – here’s a link to the video – Ronnie first posted this one and it has bechttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg4Qg0vC79Yame my favorite video <3 David

        Reply
    • 123. David Kimble  |  February 28, 2010 at 8:22 am

      Thanx for the link, dieter. <3 David

      Reply
  • 124. David Kimble  |  February 28, 2010 at 8:15 am

    Just a little something to lighten the air – thanx Ronnie – you posted this one several weeks ago. <3 David

    Reply
  • 125. David Kimble  |  February 28, 2010 at 8:19 am

    Well, that one didn’t come-out right – oh well…I tried. <3 David

    Reply
  • 126. David Kimble  |  February 28, 2010 at 8:23 am

    OK, hopefully this one works! <3 David

    Reply

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