The NOM tour: A celebration of censorship or freedom?

July 21, 2010 at 3:20 pm 159 comments

“Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Government.” — James Madison’s letter to Edward Livingston, April 10, 1822

By Rick Jacobs, Chair, Courage Campaign Institute

Even before the National Organization for Marriage launched its “Summer for Marriage: One Man, One Woman” tour, it was clear that the pro-discrimination lobby was running scared. We are only beginning to learn just how much.

After bankrolling efforts (including the now infamous “Gathering Storm” ad across the country) to limit the rights of tens of millions of Americans, they’ve described well-founded legal challenges to the institutionalized second-class citizenship they’ve championed as “judicial activism.”

They fought allowing cameras in the federal Prop. 8 trial all the way to the Supreme Court — despite the signatures gathered by the Courage Campaign of more than 140,000 citizens who wanted to see, hear and judge the evidence for themselves. They’ve worked to strike the testimony of their own witnesses from the official trial record in California, and then told Prop. 8 trial Judge Vaughn Walker they “don’t have any evidence” to support a policy agenda of bigotry and repression.

Over the past week, they’ve gone even further.

First, there’s NOM President Brian Brown’s repeated efforts to link the pro-discrimination lobby to the civil rights movement and the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King.

“What if Martin Luther King, Jr. would have listened to those who tried to silence and tell him that his faith has no place in the public square — that he should be silent?,” Brown told The Star-Ledger. “You are a part of a new civil rights group — a civil rights group dedicated to protecting the most fundamental and basic institution known to mankind: marriage.”

Does Mr. Brown really think Martin Luther King, Jr. would have advocated allowing groups like NOM to use biblical references to slavery as the foundation for voting to limit the rights of African Americans in 31 states? If so, he has outflanked even Glenn Beck on the fringe of American politics, and is spinning into Fred Phelps territory…

Mr. Brown’s continuing efforts to marginalize his own “movement” help explain the embarrassingly low turnout we’ve seen from NOM supporters on each leg of this tour, as well as the added embarrassment of “fake istockphoto families” on the side of his bus juxtaposed against hundreds of loving LGBT families who are turning out at each stop to champion the phrase inscribed above the Thurgood Marshall statue that served as the backdrop for today’s NOM rally in Annapolis: “Equal Justice Under Law.”:

Now, just one day after telling our NOM Tour Tracker team he welcomed the public and the press’s participation in each tour stop, proclaiming, “This is America,” he asked the police to expel the Courage Campaign Institute’s videographer from covering NOM’s pitifully-attended rally in Annapolis… threatening him with arrest.

Because Mr. Brown is reading this, let me be clear. We, in the equality movement, fully support NOM’s right to protest. We welcome their participation in the dialogue, and here on the Tracker. We respect their right to marry, divorce, bear children out of wedlock, worship as they choose, serve in the military and send their own camera teams to cover our rallies. We also support the Constitution—especially the 1st, 5th, 10th, and 14th Amendments—at issue on this tour, with DOMA, and the institutionalized limits on the rights of millions of Americans in more than 30 states.

While we on this site and a growing number of Americans find themselves on the side of equality, we have sought to give both sides of this debate a platform here at NOMTourTracker.com, as well as at Testimony: Equality on Trial. We’ve instructed our crews to interview supporters on both sides, and we have. But today, as NOM has done in courtrooms, ballot boxes, legislatures and public squares across the country, it has once again sought to censor this debate.

Censorship is not freedom, Mr. Brown. It is tyranny. And as you work to shield the truth just miles from the United States Naval Academy, it is worth reminding you that millions of Americans –including gay Americans — have fought and even died to defend freedom from tyranny.

To use words that Mr. Brown and a handful of NOM supporters have used frequently on this tour, I want all of our readers to know that “we’re not going away.” Today’s events have only strengthened our resolve to keep going. This debate is simply too important, and the truth has been held captive by NOM and its allies for too long.

We’ll see you in Ohio.

Entry filed under: NOM Tour Tracker, Right-wing.

BREAKING: NOM Tour Tracker videographer threatened with arrest by Brian Brown, Maryland police BREAKING (NEW VIDEO): NOM Tour Tracker forced to move, threatened with arrest in Maryland

159 Comments Add your own

  • 1. ĶĭŗîļĺęΧҲΪ  |  July 21, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Subscribing and hoping there will not be any uncouth censorship on our beloved Prop8TrialTracker that we call just P8TT!

    Reply
    • 2. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 21, 2010 at 3:28 pm

      Adding that long list of entries to my email inbox too!

      Reply
      • 3. JonT  |  July 21, 2010 at 5:11 pm

        Ditto.

        Reply
  • 4. Charles  |  July 21, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Thank you for your amazing and important work.

    Reply
  • 5. Ann S.  |  July 21, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Hi Brian!

    Reply
    • 6. Ronnie  |  July 21, 2010 at 3:41 pm

      Yes Hi Brian!

      Reply
    • 7. fiona64  |  July 22, 2010 at 8:21 am

      Hi, Brian and Louis!

      Reply
  • 8. Chris  |  July 21, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    We are also part of a new civil rights group dedicated to protecting a fundamental and basic institution known as marriage. We are protecting it – and our loved ones as well – from people like Brian Brown.

    NOM protects marriage like gangsters protect local businesses. I think Brian needs to understand the difference between protecting something and holding it hostage.

    Reply
  • 9. Kathleen  |  July 21, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Don’t want my inbox to get lonely.

    Reply
    • 10. Alan E.  |  July 21, 2010 at 3:37 pm

      Mine either. I really wish we could auto subscribe to ALL comments on every post.

      PS I almost forgot to check the box, too!

      Reply
  • 11. Richard W. Fitch  |  July 21, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    I’m beginning to wonder if they will have enough steam to make it Indianapolis. Perhaps all we’ll see is a cloud of hot air float over the east steps of the Capitol building.

    Reply
    • 12. Kathleen  |  July 21, 2010 at 5:24 pm

      You’ll recognize who it is by the brown suit jacket.

      Reply
      • 13. Richard W. Fitch  |  July 21, 2010 at 9:21 pm

        ;-) @ Kathleen Kind of like a well-used brown paper grocery bag?

        Reply
      • 14. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 21, 2010 at 9:25 pm

        Or the brown bag lunch they make all their supporters bring (you’d think they would at least supply some munchies.)

        Reply
  • 15. Bolt  |  July 21, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    The sight of video cameras documenting the NOM will drive Brian one suit up the wall. He went out of his way to ban them from his rally today, so he’ll be really stressed out if more are documenting his tour of rage.

    Kudos to you all.

    Reply
  • 16. Alan E.  |  July 21, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    I want to add another comment about the stock photo use. The NOH8 campaign is going around the country to get REAL PEOPLE and using their photos in the campaign. It’s a lot more effective when you can get celebrities and everyday people side by side for a common cause and a common scheme. If you can’t or are too lazy to get pictures of only 4 families to support your cause, then your cause won’t hold as much muster.

    Reply
  • 17. James in Hollywood  |  July 21, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    Perhaps NOM will start hiring extras to pad out the crowds. Maybe the actors who didn’t make the cut for Gathering Storm would be available.

    Reply
    • 18. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 21, 2010 at 4:01 pm

      Or they can just get some more iStock images, print lifesize and glue them to boards and put up them around the podium…

      of course, they won’t put them up until after they remove the media and cameras from the event.

      Reply
      • 19. Chris  |  July 21, 2010 at 4:12 pm

        “WANTED: elderly people or mothers with children for quixotic crusade against America’s plummeting morals. Applicants must be skilled at holding signs, looking outraged or victimized (and recognizing which situations warrant the appropriate expression), and staring down rampaging hordes of homosexual marauders intent on violating the civil rights of the vastly outnumbered God-fearing majority. High heat tolerance a plus. Breastfeeding mothers especially encouraged to apply. Call (609) 688-0450 and ask for Brian.”

        Reply
      • 20. JonT  |  July 21, 2010 at 5:20 pm

        @Chris.

        I LOL’d.

        :)

        Reply
    • 21. Bryan  |  July 21, 2010 at 8:11 pm

      There were actors who didn’t make the cut for the Gathering Storm ad? Were they inanimate objects? [shudder]

      Reply
  • 22. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  July 21, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Thank you, Rick, for speaking up so eloquently. You are, quite honestly, being more calm in this post than I can be in the next few moments. And please, let everyone who has gone out from CCI’s HQ know how much we appreciate all you folks are doing to keep the world informed, even when there are those who would try their utmost to stop the truth from being told.

    Reply
    • 23. couragecampaign  |  July 21, 2010 at 4:32 pm

      Dear Richard (and yoiur soon-to-be husband):

      Thanks for the kind words. We are here because of you and everyone else on this blog and all fair-minded Americans. In time, NOM will crumble. Yes, it receives piles of money a few secret donors, the identities of which we can surmise from its campaign in Maine its work in California. The Federal Prop. 8 trial destroyed any shred of an argument NOM/Mr. Brown have about denying love. Mr. Brown and his bare-footed friend, Maggie Gallagher, know that. (For those of you who did not see my posts about the closing arguments, Maggie Gallagher, the founder of NOM, took her shoes off and put her bare feet up on the back of a bench in Judge Walker’s courtroom, causing the bailiff to reproach her. She clearly has no respect for the American judicial process.)

      Stay with us and we’ll stay with you. Together, with the Tracker and soon with the Testimony project that will tell the stories of Americans, we’ll change the way this country sees love and justice.

      Reply
      • 24. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  July 21, 2010 at 4:51 pm

        I have no intentions of leaving, Rick, and neither does Rabbi (BZ). We will be here AFTER Cher and cockroaches,LOL.
        BTW, any chance of another Camp Courage, with a decent Internet hookup for any of us who are NETO’s on the East Coast?

        Reply
  • 25. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 21, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Love it…Brian Brown saying “I would defend his 1st Amendment Rights just as I would yours.”

    Unless you are gay in a public ‘get-together’ of NOMs.

    Reply
    • 26. Rhonda  |  July 22, 2010 at 6:14 am

      BB has a claymation mouth. Just an observation. :D
      <3 Rhonda

      Reply
  • 27. Tim  |  July 21, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    I’m posting this thread to my facebook page!
    I WILL NOT GIVE UP BRIAN ! I AM NEVER GOING AWAY!!
    Brian, I welcome you into the world of love and compassion. If you choose to accept my invitation you will be rewarded ten fold.

    BUT, if you continue to spew lies and fears I will share your lies and fears with as many people as I can!
    I have over 350 contacts on fb and I’m sure that is a conservitive amount compared to thousands of other LGBT, marriage equality people in this country.Why do we have so many friends? Because we are nice, loving people and our friendship comes without conditions such as yours.

    Judging by the few attendies at your rally’s I feel it safe to assume you have not many friends, but no one will ever really know because you censor yourself as well. Why are you trying to hide? Let me tell you. When you loose this argument (and you will) you are out of a job.
    I’m coming out of this with a job, a husband and many friends!
    Try as hard as you possibly can, mister, you will not censor me!

    Reply
  • 28. Ed  |  July 21, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    OH damn ya’ll! (ok, so im a southerner…)
    Anyway, ya’ll have to go to the NOM website…..and watch their “shocking” video…….Shocking as in how they spun this into orbit (say hi to mars as you whiz by….).
    I would post a comment on their site, but they have blocked me.
    Anyway, thought ya’ll would like to know.
    Ed

    Reply
    • 29. couragecampaign  |  July 21, 2010 at 4:51 pm

      Too bad they do not want a free discussion on their site. Ours is open. We’d welcome Mr. Brown to join us right herre.

      Reply
      • 30. Bob  |  July 21, 2010 at 5:02 pm

        right you are, it would be so nice if that happened out of all this, that we actuallly were able to participate in an open dialog,

        Please Mr. Brown, talk with us

        Reply
      • 31. Straight Grandmother  |  July 22, 2010 at 11:05 am

        @Bob, Yeah Brian Brown with the brown sports coat, yeah come on over, meet the enemy LOL!

        Reply
  • 32. Jeff  |  July 21, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Anyone else see this? Are Californians really this uneducated as to religious liberties protected by the constitution? I hope everyone takes not and uses this in the language, redundant as it is, in the Prop 8 2012 overturn 8 campaign!

    Page 1

    A significant number of Californians who initially say they support civil unions but not same- ‐ sex marriage say they would support same- ‐sex marriage if the law addresses either of two basic concerns about religious marriages:

    – With a religious liberty reassurance that the law would guarantee that no congregation would be forced to conduct same- ‐sex marriages against its beliefs, support for same- ‐sex marriage increases 12 points, from initial support of 42% to a solid majority at 54%.

    – With a civil marriage reassurance that the law would only provide for ‘civil marriages like you get at city hall,’ support increases 19 points, from 42% to about 6- ‐in- ‐10 (61%).

    http://www.publicreligion.org/objects/uploads/fck/file/CA%20Survey%20Report%20FINAL.pdf

    Reply
    • 33. Jeff  |  July 21, 2010 at 4:58 pm

      Should have read that before posting it… LOL…. should say:

      “Anyone else see this? Are Californians really this uneducated as to religious liberties provided by the US constitution? I hope everyone takes note and uses this in the language, redundant as it is, in the Prop 8 2012 overturn 8 campaign!”

      Reply
    • 34. Kathleen  |  July 21, 2010 at 5:07 pm

      Are Californians really this uneducated as to religious liberties protected by the constitution?

      Yes, sadly, they are. I personally spoke to at least a dozen people in the run-up to the 2008 election who were told by their pastor/priest that they should support Prop 8 because if it didn’t pass they (these pastors/priests) would be forced by the gov’t to perform ss marriage. And, in many cases, there was no dissuading them from the notion – because after all, why would their church lie to them?

      It’s the same people who believe this “activist judge” bs because they honestly don’t understand the role of the judiciary in our form of gov’t.

      One of my favorite examples of not understanding the basics was a series of comments on a conservative blog where someone informed the others there that they had “heard” that the ACLU would actually bring lawsuits protecting their religious freedom. Then a long argument ensued in which people challenged them to PROVE such an outlandish claim. Because, well, you know… the ACLU just forces their lefty politics on the persecuted religious folk.

      Don’t schools teach the basics of government and the US Constitution any more?

      Reply
      • 35. Owen  |  July 22, 2010 at 12:10 am

        In one ear and out the other. This country has become so painfully ignorant.

        Reply
    • 36. Steve  |  July 21, 2010 at 6:04 pm

      Like anyone would want to get married by a priest who doesn’t really want to do the ceremony. And few gay people would want to marry in a church anyways.

      Reply
      • 37. Kathleen  |  July 21, 2010 at 6:09 pm

        Actually, I know a lot of gay people who are active members of churches and have been married in their church. But you’re right — who would want to be married in a church that didn’t welcome them? But then, you know the propaganda – it’s all about forcing the Gay Agenda on all the persecuted Jebus folks who are just trying to raise their children to be God-fearing Xtians.

        Reply
      • 38. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  July 21, 2010 at 6:24 pm

        As for us, we are Jewish, and we have found a rabbi who will do a religious ceremony for us. Of course, she also told us to cover our backs by having the civil, legal ceremony done first. She truly understands the difference between civil rights and religion. And she is AA. She is one of our allies here in NC.

        Reply
      • 39. JonT  |  July 21, 2010 at 6:28 pm

        @Steve, I must confess that I can’t see why a gay couple would want to force a homophobic priest to marry them.

        Why would they even bother talking to such a priest.

        Of course this goes to their argument – allowing SSM means that priests can be forced to disobey their beliefs, eroding their constitutional rights to the free exercise of religion.

        Of course this is complete crap. In any of the states where SSM is legal, I am not aware that any priest/pastor/whatever is required to officiate an SSM.

        I think it’s just that victim-hood thing again.

        Reply
      • 40. Mark M  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:21 pm

        We plan to marry in Church……

        Reply
      • 41. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:37 pm

        @ Mark M: Yes, and I am quite certain that, like us when we looked for a rabbi, that you never even considered a church that would NOT be welcoming of you. You went to one that is loving and recognizes your love without any discrimination against you. In short, you are getting married in a church that has the same religious beliefs you have, and did not force a church with a different outlook to violate their reigious beliefs. In that way you exercised freedom of religion the way it was intended in the Constitution. Bravo!

        Reply
  • 42. Tim  |  July 21, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    couragecampaign Thank You !!

    Reply
  • 43. Richard Lulenski  |  July 21, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    The Tracker coverage is awesome – I just sent money. THANKS!

    Reply
  • 44. couragecampaign  |  July 21, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    Richard, thanks for that. We have a lot of expenses associated with all of this. I wish we had a tenth of the money that NOM has so that we could do even more. Our entire organization is grassroots and netroots supported. Your contribution of any size really, really helps.

    Rick Jacobs.

    Reply
  • 45. Chris  |  July 21, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    As nice as it would be to have Brian answer some of our questions, I think we should all try to remember that he’s very stressed right now. All he wanted to do was protect marriage and little children, but then nobody came to his parties and the people who did come yelled at him and wouldn’t even listen to his speeches. So I think somebody should make him a mixtape CD to calm his nerves and remind him that a lot of good people are thinking about him right now.

    Track #1: Blue Oyster Cult, “Don’t Fear The Reaper”.

    Track #2: either Fleetwood Mac’s “Little Lies” and Genesis’s “Jesus He Knows Me”.

    Any ideas?

    Reply
    • 46. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  July 21, 2010 at 6:29 pm

      How about one of my favorite wedding songs for track #3–
      Kathy Mattea and Time O’Brien’s duet “Battle Hymn of Love”
      And yes, I will try to find the video and post it here, even though it is on at least one earlier thread. That is, unless Ronnie beats me to it. And yes, when BZ and I get legally married in DC, I will sing this to him as my wedding vows. A Cappella!

      Reply
    • 47. JonT  |  July 21, 2010 at 6:32 pm

      Doobie Brothers!

      “Jesus is Just Alright”.

      :)

      Reply
      • 48. JonT  |  July 21, 2010 at 6:33 pm

        Sorry, one more maybe:

        Club 69 – “Love is the Message”

        :)

        Reply
    • 49. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  July 21, 2010 at 6:38 pm

      Here is the video. Correct me if I am wrong, but in my honest gay opinion, this song really cuts right to the heart of what we are fighting for.

      Reply
      • 50. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:02 pm

        Very nice Richard. I never really listened to the song’s words.

        Reply
      • 51. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:10 pm

        Glad you like it. Kathy is one of our allies in Nashville. During the early days of the HIV/AIDS battle, she organized the recording of Red Hot + Country, one of the Red Hot albums that helped raise money for research into treatment and the hope for a cure and a vaccine for HIV. the young man who is singing with Kathy is Tim O’Brien, who is the songwriter. He and his sister have a good bluegrass duo. And yes, Kathy has recorded other songs Tim has written. but this one really speaks to what marriage is all about.

        Reply
    • 52. Mark M  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:24 pm

      ‘It’s Raining Men’ perhaps? LOL

      Reply
      • 53. Chris  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:35 pm

        @Jon and Mark: YES. Excellent choices.

        @Richard that’s exactly it. That is marriage: standing by the one you love.

        Grasping-at-straws bullshit about encouraging procreation/historical precedent be damned.

        Reply
      • 54. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  July 21, 2010 at 8:17 pm

        Or, how about this old chestnut from “The Muppet Movie”?
        Kermit the Frog and “Rainbow Connection.

        Reply
      • 55. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 21, 2010 at 8:23 pm

        For BB it would be that guy who saw the double rainbow and went insane and crying — asking over and over “what does it mean? Double rainbow, it’s a double rainbow, what does it mean?”

        Reply
      • 56. Kathleen  |  July 21, 2010 at 8:27 pm

        Okay, cliche, but there’s Heather Small’s “Proud”

        Or how about a little reminder from my generation? Dylan’s “The Time’s They Are A Changin'”

        Reply
      • 57. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 21, 2010 at 8:30 pm

        Who is Dylan?

        Reply
      • 58. Kathleen  |  July 21, 2010 at 8:32 pm

        Funny, LLB

        Reply
      • 59. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  July 21, 2010 at 8:32 pm

        Bob Dylan. Same man who wrote “Blowing’ in the Wind.”

        Reply
      • 60. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 21, 2010 at 8:34 pm

        I thought it was Joan Baez (or something like that) who wrote blowing in the wind. I remember my parents listening to her.

        Reply
      • 61. fiona64  |  July 22, 2010 at 8:24 am

        Nope. Bob Dylan wrote “Blowin’ in the Wind,” “The Times They Are a-Changin’ ” and a host of other beautiful protest tunes.

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
      • 62. Dani  |  July 22, 2010 at 10:20 am

        this one should cheer him up; always does me. *evil grin*

        im coming out
        im coming
        im coming out
        im coming out
        im coming out
        im coming out

        im coming out
        i want the world to know
        got to let it show
        im coming out
        i want the world to know
        got to let it show

        there’s a new me coming out
        and i just had to live
        and i wanna give
        im completely positive
        i think this time around
        i am gonna do it
        like you never do it
        like you never knew it
        ooh, i’ll make it through

        the time has come for me
        to break out of the shell
        i have to shout
        that im coming out

        im coming out
        i want the world to know
        got to let it show
        im coming out
        i want the world to know
        i got to let it show

        im coming out
        i want the world to know
        got to let it show
        im coming out
        i want the world to know
        i got to let it show

        ive got to show the world
        all that i wanna be
        and all my billities
        there’s so much more to me
        somehowm, i have to make them
        just understand
        i got it well in hand
        and, oh, how ive planned
        im spreadin love
        there’s no need to fear
        and i just feel so glad
        everytime i hear:

        im coming out
        i want the world to know
        got to let it show
        im coming out
        i want the world to know
        i got to let it show

        Reply
      • 63. Alan E.  |  July 22, 2010 at 10:55 am

        “Coming out,” before it meant “coming out of the closet,” meant to present one’s self or be presented to the social world, usually women. Many times they would be presented at a ball or large social gathering (think of Cinderella when the guy is announcing all of the names of guests as they enter). In the late 1800’s and early 1900’s, it was transformed to be used within the gay communities at similar functions where men would present themselves as openly gay, thus “coming out” into society. It wasn’t until the late 50’s that the image of the closet was used with the phrase.

        Reply
    • 64. Kathleen  |  July 22, 2010 at 1:28 pm

      I just thought of another excellent song to add to his CD: John Lennon’s “Nature’s Child”

      I’m just a child of nature
      I don’t need much to set me free

      Maybe it will serve as a pleasant reminder that we’re all nature’s children and he can chill a little.

      Reply
  • 65. Jonathan Justice  |  July 21, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    To go back to the question asked: How could the crowds be so small? Astroturf is usually really boring, and politics is hard work.. NOM would appear to be trying to replay Jerry Falwell’s State Capitols tour, substituting mystery money for the megachurch and the weekly TV show. It should surprise very few people that a lot of folks who might support their public agenda are finding other things to do with their day. Transporting down from Starship Benedict does not do the job.

    As we saw at the Prop 8 trial, these are folks so obsessed with their internal dialog that anything resembling the light of day tends to reduce their enterprise to dust and bones.

    Reply
  • 66. Jerinne Duval  |  July 21, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    Dear Mr. Jacobs:

    I hope you give Maggie and Brian a lot of grief during NOM’s Summer Cavalcade of Hate and Deception, but here’s why I won’t send you money:

    You wrote about the “added embarrassment of “fake istockphoto families” illustrated on the NOM bus.

    Honestly, how stupid do you think the people who visit this site are?

    Do you really think we can’t go to istockphoto.com, search for “gay family” and find out that the same-sex family at the top of THIS site comes from the SAME stock photo company from which NOM purchased its?

    Can you PROVE NOM’s stock photo family is fake?

    Can you PROVE yours isn’t?

    Stop being the gay Brian Brown and do the right thing.

    Either change your banner or don’t accuse NOM of an action of which the Courage Campaign is identically guilty.

    And don’t play your readers for fools.

    In Post 24, you claim (in reference to NOM):

    “Too bad they do not want a free discussion on their site. Ours is open.”

    I assume that means you will not censor this letter in any way.

    If I am mistaken, I’m going to send it, plus screen caps (already saved, just in case) of both your stockphoto.com banner and your hypocritical accusation about the use of “fake” families, directly to NOM.

    Good luck in the overwhelming majority of your endeavors which are legitimate.

    Reply
    • 67. Chris  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:10 pm

      Interestingly, you didn’t post a link. Although, it is here:

      http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-3604310-unconventional-family-two-men-and-a-child.php

      The issue for me isn’t that NOM used a stock photo, but that they’re giving the impression that these are people who support what they stand for. They’re saying “Look at some examples of all these nice people who agree with us,” when it is not at all clear that those models supported their viewpoint at all. So it’s disingenuous.

      Assuming that that is an actual gay couple, however – and maybe they’re only models posing together, who knows – I would be very surprised if they didn’t support what this site stands for. So they really are an example of the community, and the fact that the photo is also on iStock is, as far as I’m concerned, not a problem.

      And I must say, Jerinne. Claiming that Rick Jacobs is some sort of “gay Brian Brown” because he used a photo that happens to be for sale somewhere – and withholding needed support on that basis alone – is ridiculous. Ridiculous enough to make me wonder whether ol’ Brian/Lewis/whoever decided to put in an appearance after all.

      Don’t fly off the handle until you know for sure that those are two straight guys who have no idea where their picture is. And even if that does turn out to be the case, it’s hardly on the same level as traveling across America to wage war on peoples’ civil rights. Get some perspective.

      Reply
    • 68. Kathleen  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:23 pm

      The design of this site was originally meant to parody the Protect Marriage site:
      http://www.protectmarriage.com/

      I see the use of a stock photo here as being … see, we can find a stock photo of one of our families, too.

      Also, as Chris said, when the models in the photo here posed, representing a family w/two dads, I’m guessing they had some idea of the context in which their images were gong to be used. I doubt the same can be said for the models on the NOM bus.

      I know if I were a model posing in a “family” picture, thinking I might show up in a a picture frame at CVS, I’d be shocked to see my image was being used in a way that suggests I support taking away peoples’ rights.

      Reply
  • 70. Brian  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    Just regarding the NOM use of iStock photos.

    Yes, we actually do know and can prove that. This previous P8TT post and thread has all the relevant info and links.

    http://prop8trialtracker.com/2010/07/16/nom-tour-bus-fail-get-a-load-of-this/

    I can’t speak to the photo on this site.

    Reply
    • 71. Brian  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:17 pm

      re-reading your post:

      Yes, we can prove they are iStock photos.
      No, I can’t say either way if the families depicted are actual or fake

      Reply
      • 72. Chris  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:29 pm

        You’re the good Brian, right?

        Reply
      • 73. JonT  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:34 pm

        @Chris: ‘You’re the good Brian, right?

        Come on – do you really think Brian Brown is actually gonna ever post here?

        Never going to happen – at least not under his name.

        Reply
      • 74. Chris  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:39 pm

        Well, you never know. I’ve seen people from the other side troll these places before.

        You’d think he could at least let us know if he had any special requests for his CD.

        Reply
  • 75. Bob  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    is there an actual gay family that would volunteer for the photo,

    Reply
    • 76. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:35 pm

      Bob, many have posted that they would be glad to be the family on this site. I think too many. Might be hard to actually have to choose only one.

      Reply
  • 77. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    Well then, how about a rotation of the photos? I have a WordPress blog myself, and one of the new features is a photo shuffle that allows you to post numerous photos and set them to shuffle, either on random timing or at a set pace. Then they could use all of them.

    Reply
    • 78. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:51 pm

      Would be cool. But I can’t imaging Brian and the Courage Campaign staffers wondering if a DDOS attack was happening because people were refreshing even more than before trying to show their families and friends their pics :)

      LOL over. It would be wonderful, hopefully Rick or Brian will see this post.

      Reply
    • 79. Chris  |  July 21, 2010 at 7:52 pm

      I really like that idea. Underscores the point that these are ordinary families like everyone else.

      Also, while I don’t have a problem with the iStock thing myself, it does open the door to people questioning the credibility of the shot.

      Reply
      • 80. couragecampaign  |  July 22, 2010 at 12:07 am

        Hi folks! Sorry I’m late to this. Yes, we put that photo up as a total parody of their site. As you may recall, we got sued by the oxymoronic Protect Marriage dot com over it. They lost, of course, got laughed out of court.

        I may get in trouble with the staff over this, but why not submit some photos for us to put at the top of the site? We’d need to know they are yours, and I’d even be for folks voting on them or helping us select some. If indeed Richard soon-to-be Walter-Jerrigan is correct, which I’ll be you are, we can try that rotation/shuffle.

        So start putting up those family photos. Get your friends in on it. You may remember Fidelity, the video Courage did eighteen months ago. Maybe it’s time for another shot at that?

        Rick.

        http://www.couragecampaign.org/page/s/divorce

        Reply
      • 81. PamC  |  July 22, 2010 at 5:22 am

        Fidelity, by Regina Spektor, is one of my favs! She’s an excellent artist, with very interesting facebook updates, too. We like her very much, and I didn’t even know who she was until I saw this video!

        Reply
      • 82. Alan E.  |  July 22, 2010 at 8:40 am

        Thanks for taking the time to join in the chat here, Rick. It can be difficult to break away from busy schedules and read through these comments. I have to find a few minutes here and there just to read the comments. I feel that if I can’t read what is going on beyond the posts that I might miss out on something (which is true, really). I have changed all of the organizations to which I donate just in the last 6 months, and Courage Campaign was my first one while following the trial in January. I’ve taken a hard look at what the organization is doing with their money, and I want to give to people that are giving something valuable that no one else can provide. Thanks for the hard work, and give those fingers a break before the appeal trial in the 9th Circuit court.

        Reply
      • 83. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  July 22, 2010 at 9:57 am

        I am sending our photo in the next few minutes. Let Robert know to expect it.

        Reply
  • 84. Bob  |  July 21, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    a challenge to Mr. Brown, let’s get real, we put up a real family photo, and ask him to do the same, lets have photo contest with real families

    Reply
  • 85. Mark M  |  July 21, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    Ummm, do we really care about the damn photos?

    Reply
  • 86. BrianT  |  July 21, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    I’m the Brian that posted above (and a couple of times before in the past). I’ll go by BrianT to distinguish myself from the other ‘good Brian’ :)

    The more I think about it, the more I think Jerinne is essentially right. It is mildly hypocritical and disingenuous of us to have an uproar over NOM’s use of iStock photos while we do the same thing.

    Especially since we don’t need to.

    Now its true, the history of this was that at first it was a parody of the “ProtectMarriage” site. And, as a parody, the iStock photo was appropriate (and mildly funny).

    But now, I think this site is quite a bit more than just a parody site. It has a life of its own, and I think we can do better.

    I don’t think this community would have any trouble gathering a collection of many beautiful families who would love to volunteer their images to the top of this site.

    Reply
  • 87. Bob  |  July 21, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    well only enough to make a whole issue about NOM’s use of them,

    Jerinne raised a valid point, considering we’ve made the issue, and got BB to talk about them, he talked about fake families in an interview,

    so if we go that far then when someone points out our own use of them, we turn tail and say it’s not an issue after all.

    just saying there’s already some publicity about this maybe we can take it further,

    Reply
    • 88. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 21, 2010 at 9:02 pm

      I can understand what BrianT means about the parady of this site and not taking down the iStock photo though. Actually, almost brilliant.

      Reply
      • 89. Bob  |  July 21, 2010 at 9:49 pm

        Brian T, can you clarify, I think you’re saying the parodsy thing was good while it lasted but we’re past that, time to put a real face to families or did I misunderstand

        Reply
      • 90. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 21, 2010 at 9:52 pm

        I think he meant the parody was old…but I will let him state that.

        Reply
      • 91. BrianT  |  July 21, 2010 at 10:08 pm

        I am saying this is not really a parody site anymore.

        Given the first statement, I am saying if we’re going to give NOM crap about iStock photos we should really get rid of ours.

        And I think it would really easy and powerful for us to replace our iStock photos with photos of real families.

        Hell, just from the few posts above, it would seem many families here would be eager to volunteer!

        Just feels like a no-brainer :)

        Reply
  • 92. Sarah  |  July 21, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    Just subscribing.

    Reply
  • 93. Greg in OZ  |  July 21, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    Hi Rick,
    Kudos to the Courage Campaign and all who are working on it. Cant believe the dedication and hard work that you guys are doing.
    I’ve been following this site in Australia ever since you guys started with the Prop 8 trial and it’s given me so much joy to see the community that has formed here (I have posted a few times – but rarely).
    You are all amazing – and by ‘all’, I also mean the many regular commentators as well (Fiona64, LLB, Str8 Grandmother, Richard Walters – the whole lot of you – too many to name – your all inspirational and so un-fricken-believable!!!).
    I didnt start this post as a rave about you guys (but cant help raving about you lot – my freinds over here are getting soooo sick of me telling them to take a visit to these sites), but I do have a question that is a bit off this current topic of the NOM tour (what a momentous FAIL – YAY!!!!!).
    My question is – do we have ANY update on Judge Walker’s time frame re his decision? Last I heard was sometime this month or maybe early August – any more specific news than that?
    I know that the trial really has little impact on me (in the way of rights and laws etc, we’re a bit ahead of the curve in the USA – which I admit greatly surprised me when I realised that!!! But I’ll fight for my brother and sister’s GLBTI rights anytime, anywhere!) – and I’m HANGING for the verdict.
    Just wondering if any further news has come down about when we can expect the result from the trial.
    Mind you – when that does happen and this is all done – I’m really going to miss this website and all the truly wonderful and thoughtful people who contribute to it! Although, I am also aware that this battle through the California SC has to go all the way to the USSC – so I figure this site will be going for a while yet!
    Thanks again for all that your team is doing.
    …….And a big HELLO to all the Prop 8 Trial trackers! you guys constantly blow my mind!…..Lots o’ Love to ALL of you
    GregII in Oz

    Reply
    • 94. Kathleen  |  July 21, 2010 at 9:12 pm

      Hi Greg, I remember you from earlier posts. It’s been a while!

      As to your question – absolutely nothing new. Attorneys for plaintiffs submitted a request in writing to Judge Walker, asking that he give them a 48 hour advance notice when the verdict is expected. They also requested that he let them know if he did not intend to do so. Walker has not responded to that request, at least not formally, on the docket. So we’re all in the same boat…. waiting.

      Reply
      • 95. Greg in OZ  |  July 21, 2010 at 9:39 pm

        Hi Kathleen,
        Thanks for that update.
        Your right re me not commenting for a while – thats mainly because due to the time difference – most of the ‘chat’ is over by the time I see it in Oz – but dont think I’ve not been watching!
        I’ve been checking this site every day (mostly at work – I’m lucky that I have an understanding workplace!).
        In a way, I was glad to see the NOM tour start up – it gave us all something more to chat about again.
        I cannot believe how many times those guys shoot themselves in the foot.
        This latest debacle re Brian saying that he welcomes everyone to his events and then the next day, kicks out the video guy is just another brilliant example of their / his paranoia and bigotry – obviously by ‘everyone’ he didn’t mean anyone who supported SSM!!!!
        And ohh!!! the lack of support they seem to be getting at every stop is killing me (as in, killing me because I’m RATFLMHO – Rolling Around The Floor Laughing My Head Off!).
        And just one more thing….Hi Mr Brown from Oz!!! Please come down and visit us and then you will see just how facilious and bigotted you look and sound, not just in your own country – but just about any other free thinking western society in the world!

        Reply
      • 96. fiona64  |  July 22, 2010 at 8:27 am

        Hi, Greg, and thank you so much for your kind words.

        Love and hugs,
        Fiona

        Reply
    • 97. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  July 21, 2010 at 9:20 pm

      Thank you, Greg. I am so glad you are a regular here. Are ou on FB by chance? If you are, we have a group there that is the P8TT group. You can find all of us there as well.

      Reply
      • 98. Greg in OZ  |  July 21, 2010 at 9:44 pm

        Hi Richard,
        I am on FB – but cant access it at my work, which is where I do most of the catching up with you guys on P8TT – time differences are such a bore!!!
        I’ll check out the FB page tonight when I get home – I was aware of it, but as time is limited – it’s hard enough just keeping up with you guys here!! LOL.
        Hope to catch up wih you there sometime :-)
        GregII

        Reply
      • 99. Kathleen  |  July 22, 2010 at 11:11 am

        Greg, I wanted to add: The FB page “Prop 8 Trial Tracker” is a good place to look for updates on the trial. Whenever there’s a new court filing that’s on the public docket (i.e., not under protective order), I obtain a copy, upload it to my Scribd account, and post the link at the FB page. I also post an update here, but that gets lost in the comments and is easy to miss.

        Really glad to see you drop in again! And, as Rick said, this case will have a life far beyond the District Court, so this community that has grown here isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. Many of the people here have become so close, I suspect if CC were to ever shut down this site, we’d find another home.

        Reply
    • 100. couragecampaign  |  July 21, 2010 at 11:51 pm

      Greg:

      I’ve never been to Australia, but one day…

      We have no idea when the judge rules: it could be Thursday or at the end of August, as some speculate, or at another date. Unlike appellate courts, the judge has no set timeframe for a ruling.

      I’d like to remove one of your concerns. After the judge rules, this site will only grow more vibrant, because there will be appeals to the circuit (regional appeals) court and then, almost surely, to the Supreme Court. Part of the purpose of this site and all of the purpose of Testimony: Equality on Trial is to rally public opinion over the next few years through a national story telling project that will show that America has changed its mind (which it has) and that, as NOM is now proving, the courts will be where the country is by ruling in favor of full equality.

      So stay tuned! And post a picture from Down Under!

      Rick.

      Reply
      • 101. Greg in OZ  |  July 22, 2010 at 12:01 am

        Thanks for that Rick,
        If you do come down here to visit – look me up. God knows after all this work your all doing – you deserve a decent break & I’d feel privilaged to show you around the place :-).
        Nice to know that this community that you guys have gathered together (because that IS what you guys have created here – and a wonderful community at that!) will be around for a while yet.
        As others have commented before, I’ve laughed and cried at some of the most beautiful testimonies about our lives that I have ever seen! Even for an ‘old queen’ like me, who has been politically active for more years than I can remember, this site has taught me approaches and viewpoints that I have never considered.
        You really should gather all this stuff into some sort of book or historical record (note I said historical – not hysterical – record, that’s the other side’s approach!)
        As for the pic – coming soon!!! :-)
        Cheers from Down Under!!!!

        Reply
    • 102. Alan E.  |  July 22, 2010 at 8:29 am

      Hi Greg. There are so many of us that have been following since Day 1, and we welcome all comments by all viewpoints as long as there is a dialogue (Which infamous George/Goerge/Egroeg/Louis? was not capable of). This website doesn’t have to go away because there will be a fight for equality for quite some time still. This site has brought together people from all over the world (BIG WAVE to Steff currently out in Cote d’Ivoire), which is quite powerful.

      Reply
  • 103. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 21, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    Vito Oliver’s response to the lies Brian Brown and NOM have been saying about him. Vito has been made the victim by the NOM group. He has every right to speak his mind at their public event.

    Reply
    • 104. Bob  |  July 21, 2010 at 10:20 pm

      yes Vito, well said, thanks for that,

      Reply
  • 105. The First Amendment  |  July 21, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/how-to/computer-security/taking-photos-in-public-places-is-not-a-crime?click=pm_latest

    Photography and videography in public places is NOT ILLEGAL. It’s a protected First Amendment right. Above is a recent Popular Mechanics article on the fact. Stand up for your rights, trackers!

    Reply
    • 106. couragecampaign  |  July 21, 2010 at 11:53 pm

      Thanks! I wonder if we should send some letters to the Mayor, police chief and city council of Annapolis to let them know that, as Arisha said, the police are there to protect our rights as well.

      Rick.

      Reply
  • 107. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 21, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    All Right all you DC people…FREE Ice Cream Social at the NOM final stop! YUMM!

    I might just have to cash in some miles and hop on a plane (xanax included) to join you.

    Reply
    • 108. couragecampaign  |  July 21, 2010 at 11:57 pm

      LLB!

      Thanks for highlighting this. My partner Shaun and I just watched it, twice! Notice that they cannot say in here that they are meeting because they don’t like GLBT people. They are stuck. Only the guys who speak in tongues, the lady with the sign and the other ten people whom Mr. Brown pays to go to his rallies can say the truth.

      But isn’t this just BEGGING for a mash-up? I mean, come on!

      Rick.

      Reply
      • 109. PamC  |  July 22, 2010 at 5:23 am

        This underscores their inability & unwillingness to dialogue. Even the “speaking in tongues” or praying normally in front of us is a way of ignoring us, refusing eye contact and dehumanizing us.

        Reply
      • 110. Alan E.  |  July 22, 2010 at 8:31 am

        Also note that the video says “We Welcome All” and then “Free Ice Cream Social.” Go and get your free ice cream at the rally all you DC counter-protesters!

        Reply
      • 111. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  July 22, 2010 at 9:54 am

        Rick, please check out the FB page “Let’s All Unite for Equality and Ride to Washington, DC at One Time.” While it is growing, we still need more people, and we need those who are already signed up to suggest it to their friends. We need people who can organize their local area so that we can get all the busses coordinated with their departure times so that we all arrive in DC at the same time and get there before NOM does. We have got to have a coordinated effort. However the two of us who are currently admins for the page cannot do all of it by ourselves.

        Reply
    • 112. Kathleen  |  July 22, 2010 at 11:16 am

      This event might be timed to coincide with the DC Rally, but it’s taking place in R.I.
      http://nommarriageday.org/

      Reply
  • 113. RebeccaRGB  |  July 22, 2010 at 1:42 am

    You can’t turn the lights off now,
    The world is much too small,
    When anybody’s rights get wronged
    It’s everybody’s wake-up call.
    Corruption thrives on secrecy,
    Transparency is good for you and me,
    And we really want the truth set free for all.

    Reply
  • 114. Straight Grandmother  |  July 22, 2010 at 2:09 am

    And here comes straight grandmother again bringing up the rear, LOL. I have been on a project that in fact kept me up working for over 30 hours, man was I tired after that. I didn’t take the time to comment on the New Jersey counter demonstration nor the Maryland one so I’ll just catch up now.

    First off Ronnie I was very inspired by your posts what your reaction was and what you personally took away from the NJ counter protest. I am am willing to listen and learn, as everyone knows by my handle I am not gay, so I have not been on this issue for years, or like for some people all of their lives. I guess it was allright if Ronnie says so. With that said I am coming to the colclusion that we really do need all types of protest and that there is not one RIGHT way.

    Seeing as how NOM’s number of attendees is so so very poor I am disapointed in Marylands “counter protest” which was, if I saw the viedo properly, a postcard drive. We will have to see what happens in the coming weeks ahead.

    Also I think the debate amongst ourselves got a little heated ont he best way to protest and that discouraged me from participating, in addition to the work I’m doing. Now that we have all calmed down a little bit I think we should reflect on this. It was especially disheartening for me being in the minority opinion. I have not completely changed my mind however. I do feel we need to confront NOM on the ground wherever thay are at, in their face. I do not feel it is effective if always (stressing the word always) the counter protests are off site and civilized.
    I thought GetEqual did a great protest in Las Vegas, I think it was yesterday. Other than Marriage Equality I think the most insidious situation is the lack of ENDA, to me it is next after Marriage Equality, even more than DADT. I was so very glad that GetEqual took that on. Getting arrested gets attention, no doubt about that. And they are willing to do that. So kudos to them.

    I am looking forward to the Indiana counterprotest as there will be a little piece of me at that one. I am not going to say more, you’ll have to wait and see.

    Also many many thanks to the Courage Campaign for bringing us timely updates on the counter protests. The way you are doing it now is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!

    Reply
    • 115. Elsie  |  July 22, 2010 at 8:54 am

      Straight Grandmother, Glad to see you checking in. I’ve come to the same conclusion. Ronnie did a great job conveying the power of the NJ counter action.

      Reply
      • 116. couragecampaign  |  July 22, 2010 at 9:26 am

        Straight Grandmother and Elsie:

        First, you all give us energy and inspiration. Arisha and her team are out there every day doing all they can to stand up to nomsense (sic). Knowing that you all are reading and planning and adding to the mix is everything. Please look for Arisha and our trackers when they get to Indiana.

        Elsie, the NJ folks did a brilliant job. Each state has taken a different tack and it’s all been much more powerful than their tour in a box.

        Up above, there were comments about getting photos of LGBT families so that we can replace the stock photo no our banner up above and maybe share them at each stop.

        What do you think?

        Rick.

        “Fidelity”: Don’t Divorce… from Courage Campaign on Vimeo.

        Reply
      • 117. Alan E.  |  July 22, 2010 at 9:45 am

        “nomsense”

        I LIRL (laughed in real life)

        Reply
      • 118. Straight Grandmother  |  July 22, 2010 at 11:09 am

        Thank you Elsie. We would not know about any of these protests if it were not for the Courage Campaign. I read in one of your other posts that you are a woman of color. I am so very proud to stand with you in solidarity, you bring an extra special perspective to our conversations here. You are EXTRA SPECIAL Elsie :) :) :)

        Reply
  • 119. MichGuy  |  July 22, 2010 at 3:34 am

    I just looked at a highlight In case anyone is curious here is a link to the Trial-Transcripts to the Log Cabin Repub’s vs. USA (DontAsk dont Tell) Trial.

    http://online.logcabin.org/transcripts-and-statements.html

    ============================================

    This trial isnot getting the sameamount of PRESS as the prop 8 trial.

    http://www.queerty.com/log-cabin-republicans-fought-to-have-a-dadt-and-nobody-bothered-showing-up-20100720/

    Reply
    • 120. Sagesse  |  July 22, 2010 at 5:39 am

      I’ve been reading the transcripts. It’s another challenge to ensure DADT repeal happens. Some argue that many LGBT people feel it doesn’t affect them, but the military is a huge employer, and DADT is one of the pillars of anti-gay legislation. When it falls, it will be a giant step to ending government-sponsored discrimination against a class of citizens. Next stop ENDA, then DOMA.

      The DADT trial doesn’t feel as formidable as the Prop 8 trial because Judge Walker wanted evidence, and was leaning to admit whatever was offered and decide later what weight to give it. The government’s position in the DADT trial is to fight admission of any evidence at all (for reasons that don’t quite make sense to me) and it interrupts the flow.

      Reply
      • 121. Straight Grandmother  |  July 22, 2010 at 9:27 am

        Sagasee, I totally agree with you! I did go read the first couple transcripts last week, perhaps the first 5 or 6. It is a GOOD trial!!! You are right to bring this to the attention of this Forum. After all we all first cam to CC because of the trial, and so I wish they would make more of an effort to follow trials. We have recently been diverted with the NOM (I LOVE the person who postes, national Organization of MORONS) bus tour, and have gotten away from trials. Many thanks for bringing us back.

        Reply
    • 122. Alan E.  |  July 22, 2010 at 8:43 am

      I don’t have the time to read the transcripts right now, but I do wish it would be getting more press. However, the Prop 8 trial didn’t get much press while it was going on either because there isn’t much (or any) video to go along with it. Unfortunately, you need to be able to provide some footage so the tv news will cover it. Otherwise, it isn’t worth it to them.

      Reply
      • 123. Kathleen  |  July 22, 2010 at 11:18 am

        Alan, in case you missed it JonT has been posting excerpts at his blog. It’s a good way to get a feel for what’s transpiring in just a few minutes:
        http://catissad.blogspot.com/

        Reply
      • 124. Alan E.  |  July 22, 2010 at 11:30 am

        Oh I haven’t missed it. I have promised him cookies (I guess I owe you some too for your efforts).

        Reply
      • 125. Kathleen  |  July 22, 2010 at 12:06 pm

        It looks like the Advocate has been doing some reporting:
        http://online.logcabin.org/news-about-lcr-v-usa.html

        Wanted to make an observation about the case. I’ll preface it with a note that I haven’t been closely watching the case, so am not fully informed on all the nuances. However, based on my understanding, one of the perils this DADT case faces is the fact that Judge Phillips relies on the case Witt v. US Department of the Air Force to set the standard of review.

        Witt is a case brought in a Washington state federal District Court by a USAF Major facing discharge under DADT. The District Court denied Maj Witt’s motion for a preliminary injunction and granted the US Govt’s motion to dismiss. Witt appealed the ruling to the 9th Circuit. The 9th Circuit reversed, saying that dismissals under DADT must be subjected to an intermediate level of scrutiny. Because the lower court didn’t hear facts to determine if Witt’s particular case met that standard, the case was sent back to the District Court for additional fact-finding and a ruling in light of those facts. As far as I know, that hasn’t yet happened. More importantly, the Witt case is still subject to possible appeal to the US Supreme Court.

        So, coming back to the LCR case.. Phillips seems to be relying on Witt to demand a higher level of scrutiny than mere rational review. If the plaintiff’s case relies entirely on that fact, then it’s relying on a case which is still subject to reversal. Hopefully, LCR is also building a case which can withstand rational review as well (if such a case can be made) so that if Witt is overturned, the case isn’t dead in the water.

        Reply
  • 126. Sagesse  |  July 22, 2010 at 5:18 am

    Just a reminder that there will soon be a chance to throw a statewide marriage equality rally (and with luck one hell of a party) all over California. Wonder what the counter protest will look like? :)

    http://www.sacramentopress.com/headline/33248/Sacramento_LGBT_Community_Prepares_to_React_to_Federal_Prop_8_Ruling

    On a previous thread I posted a link to a site that was tracking the plans in various California cities. I would repost, but I didn’t save the link… anyone here have it?

    Reply
    • 127. couragecampaign  |  July 22, 2010 at 9:20 am

      Remember that Walker’s ruling can affect the entire nation. This is not just a California issue.

      Rick.

      Reply
      • 128. Bob  |  July 22, 2010 at 9:35 am

        Rick, thanks for making that point , again, I think know that there are so many new people on this site, it would be good to post an article about how Walker’s ruling could affect the entire nation.

        Bring some attention back to that ruling for folks from other states, who may not have followed all of the trial.

        Also to remind people who want to dialog with NOM, the very best dialog was forced, undr oath, and is documented for everyone to read.

        That’s what California has already done for everyone.

        Great to read your posts, and happy that you took up Jerinnes challenge re the photo”s

        That may have been her first and only post but it seems to have got action, and I like that, I’m hoping a donation may follow.

        Reply
      • 129. Straight Grandmother  |  July 22, 2010 at 10:26 am

        Rick, Judge Walkers decision BETTER effect the whole nation or else I am wasting my time on this website if it only ends up effecting California. My daughter and grandchildren in Virginia have NO GLBT rights, none, nada, zip. At least in California GLBT people can co-adopt, have civil unions etc. In Virginia, NOTHING, they get nothing. I am hoping and praying that his ruling in our favor affects SSM across the united States of America.
        p.s. you are kind of chatty today, it’s nice :)

        Reply
      • 130. Ann S.  |  July 22, 2010 at 10:46 am

        I think the operative word is “can”, that is, once it is appealed and we (hopefully) prevail. Walker’s ruling applies technically only to the parties before him, which necessarily involves all of California. If appealed to the 9th Circuit (a near certainty), the ruling of the 9th Circuit will apply to all states within their jurisdiction. If appealed to the Supreme Court (a near certainty) and if they take the case (very likely), their ruling will apply to the entire country.

        Momentum is on our side. Demographics are on our side. But Walker’s ruling in the Prop 8 case is just one step of many.

        Reply
      • 131. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  July 22, 2010 at 10:52 am

        Yes, it will, Rick. And thank you for reminding us of that.
        BTW, hopefully Robert has our pic by now. If not, let me know and I will send it to you via PM on FB

        Reply
      • 132. Alan E.  |  July 22, 2010 at 10:59 am

        Straight Grandmother, you may have mentioned it before, but where do your kids live in Virginia. A major reason I left Virginia (from Richmond) was the oppression from the communities. I think that now I could possibly live there again and be myself as I am now, but I certainly would not have developed to be as openly proud me if I had fully developed there.

        Reply
      • 133. Straight Grandmother  |  July 22, 2010 at 11:37 am

        Alan E, oh you are sooooo right. My daughter has mentioned many times what it is like to live in the Bible Belt, southern Virgina. She is near Norfolk. Ahd she says when she first moved down there and met new people invariably the first words in introduction were asking her, “What church so you belong to?” Can you realte to this? If judge Walker rules against us I will be pushing her very hard to move to Masachusetts. The only problem there is I have so much trouble spelling the name of that state Ha-ha.

        But seriously by not being the legal parent to her twin children she is denying them dual nationality. Her children, only her legal children of course, are entitled to French citizenship. Both my son and my daughter have dual citizenship, both French and American. Their leglal children are also entitiled to dual nationality. My son who works for the government, would not renounce his French citizenship for his current postion. He made a compromise, his French passport is locked up in a Government safe as long as he is employed by the State Department.

        Until there is Marriage Equality, my daughter is not permitted to be a legal parent and my grandchildren are loosing citizenship to France. That is how important these issues are, citizenship is in play here. It is no different than a person who is American having a Foreign national loved one, one with children they would like to adopt, those kids are not getting American citizenship.

        Marriage inequaility is horrible, well except for the hetrosexual familes. Everything goes smooth as pie for them and their children, but not for ours. My heart really goes out to those who have a same sex relationship raising childre, New Jersey children (representing ALL similarly situated families) , said that they want their parents to be allowed to marry. Anyone who says that children don’t rank special are 100% out of it. Children have no choice, children have no voice only through their parents and children deserve protection, special protection. My heart bleeds for my grandchildren, truly it does. I get morose about it, even weepy sometimes after I post about them.

        Those of you in California and other states that permit same sex adoptions, it is not the same for you. For you it is not an issue but for many many states in this country it is not permitted, Virgina being one of them. Honestly the tears are running down my cheeks write now as I finish this post, that is how bad it hurts.

        Reply
      • 134. Kathleen  |  July 22, 2010 at 11:38 am

        And I point out again, for those who haven’t been following: Even when the impact of the case is broadened through appeal (as Ann S explained above), how helpful it will be to other states will depend on what facts the courts rely on to reach a conclusion that the law is unconstitutional.

        There are some facts about the situation in California that doesn’t apply in every state. For example, Cali has a class of ss couples who ARE married, while denying marriage to other ss couples. If it is only that fact that makes Prop 8 run afoul of the US Constitution, then the case would only set useful precedent in states with the same situation.

        Reply
  • 135. PamC  |  July 22, 2010 at 6:23 am

    Marriage Equality Bill gets signed into law in Argentina:

    Reply
    • 136. Ronnie  |  July 22, 2010 at 7:18 am

      YAY!!!!! Argentina….Look at President Cristina Fernandez De Kirchner….she is Fabulous….<3….Ronnie

      Reply
  • 137. Gabe  |  July 22, 2010 at 7:06 am

    I just got back from Argentina where the President signed a marriage equality bill into law. Last week, Thousands of gay activists turned out to pressure congress to pass the law…and they did. It was amazing to see something like marriage equality come to pass in a heavily catholic and traditionally “machista” country. It gives me hope for the US! Fight on!

    Reply
    • 138. Straight Grandmother  |  July 22, 2010 at 8:01 am

      The optimal word beiing THOUSANDS turned out in the streets… The Martin Luther King and Gahndi way works wonderful, IF…IF… you can get thousands…. I am totaly for that. Just wondering what, in the United States of America, how to get those thousands, and somewhat depressed over it. But YEAH! Go Argentina!!!!

      Reply
      • 139. Straight Grandmother  |  July 22, 2010 at 9:35 am

        Ronnie, I think you were at the last Equality March in DC what year was that? It was recent. Correct me if I am wrong but I think there were either 100,000 or 300,000 people who attended. I can’t help but remember it was the 2 prinicipals of GetEqual who pulled that off. Robin and Kip from GetEqual. This is the only big rally that I remember recently, ie prior to 17 years ago (1993).

        Honestly there could have been more, i just don’t remember any sticking in my mind. In California for Prop 8 what were the numbers for the biggest attended rally? Anyone know?

        Reply
    • 140. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  July 22, 2010 at 9:17 am

      Seeing the images coming out of Argentina reind so much of our own rallies and protests here in the US.
      Like this image from last years civil rights rally in DC.
      I will certainly never forget how wonderful the ’93 rally was…with nearly 1 million people in attendance.

      Reply
      • 141. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  July 22, 2010 at 9:18 am

        That was to read:
        “Seeing the images coming out of Argentina reminds me so much of our own rallies and protests here in the US.”

        Reply
  • 142. Sagesse  |  July 22, 2010 at 7:12 am

    Continuing to point out the security holes in the DADT survey.

    Gay Blogger Accesses DADT Survey

    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/07/20/Blogger_Accesses_DADT_Survey/

    Reply
  • 143. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 22, 2010 at 7:44 am

    Great article.

    Freedom to Marry to NOM: This is What a Summer For Marriage Really Looks Like

    “Fortunately, as the limp attendance at NOM’s sad rallies — and the latest national polling — indicate, the market for NOM’s brand of snake oil is drying up. While turnout at NOM’s “rallies” shrinks each day, Freedom to Marry’s Summer for Marriage Tour is outdrawing NOM, in some cases 3-to-1.”

    Read Full Article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/evan-wolfson/freedom-to-marry-to-nom-t_b_655414.html

    Reply
    • 144. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 22, 2010 at 7:57 am

      Oh, and I forgot…

      Good Morning Louis!

      Reply
      • 145. Straight Grandmother  |  July 22, 2010 at 10:09 am

        LLB, always the well mannored one…. LOL

        Reply
    • 146. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  July 22, 2010 at 9:11 am

      Great article LLB…thanks for posting the link.
      :-)

      Reply
  • 147. Dan Hess  |  July 22, 2010 at 7:57 am

    Hey all, I’m leaving Korea tomorrow. I’ll be in San Francisco on Friday from a little after noon until about 7. Ha, wouldn’t it be awesome if Walker announced his verdict while I was over there?

    Anyway, I was wondering if some of you lot wanted to meet up and hang out for a bit, seeing as it’ll be my first time in San Fran for any length of time. Anyway, give me a yell.

    Reply
    • 148. Straight Grandmother  |  July 22, 2010 at 11:03 am

      Dan, I HOPE you bring good vibes, and that Walker rules while you are here, how cool would that be? Maybe just take a walk over to the court house and visit his courtroom, so that when the verdict comes you will have a real sense having visited the court room. Yeah I know 24 hours you might not find the time to do that, but if by chance you have time on your hands, go. Maybe he will be in court and you can watch him. If I was any where within 8 – 10hr driving time I think I might go do that.

      Reply
    • 149. Alan E.  |  July 22, 2010 at 11:09 am

      Dan, are you here just for a few hours or longer?

      Reply
    • 150. Dan Hess  |  July 22, 2010 at 8:37 pm

      Thanks SG, I think I will go down to the courthouse. Maybe I can even get a short interview with Walker (though I’m not optimistic given how busy he is).

      Alan, like I said I’ll be in SF from about 12:30 until 9:40 when my plane leaves for Philly. I’d probably have to head back to the airport around 7 in order to get through security (for some reason they always end up stopping me, maybe it’s because I look like a hippie? XD). So it’s not as long as I’d like for a first trip to SF, but it’d still be enough to see a little of the city and meet some people.

      Reply
  • 151. Lesbians Love Boies  |  July 22, 2010 at 8:04 am

    A nice article (hard to pull a quote from it.)

    “Ranting of a gay Christian”

    http://www.thesunnews.com/2010/07/22/1596510/ranting-of-a-gay-christian.html

    Reply
    • 152. Alan E.  |  July 22, 2010 at 8:46 am

      LLB, I am going to make a sign with your call name for the day of the announcement. I have the material, so I should just do than this weekend when I take a break from (somewhat ironically) ethics homework.

      Reply
    • 153. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  July 22, 2010 at 9:43 am

      Awesome!!!!
      My favorite paragraph I think:

      Argentina President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner criticized the church in a public statement which referred to arguments that the issue was “God’s Battle” and “The Work of the Devil” comparing the fight to “the times of the Crusades.” “They are portraying this as a religious moral issue and as a threat to ‘the natural order,’ when what we are really doing is looking at a realty that is already there,” the president said from Beijing. “It would be a terrible distortion of democracy if they denied minorities their rights.”

      Reply
  • 154. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  July 22, 2010 at 9:12 am

    Brian, Louis…good mornig to you both…hope you slept well. :-)

    Reply
  • […] Incidents like this demonstrate why NOM’s “Summer for Marriage: One Man, One Woman” national tour is becoming an unmitigated public relations disaster. […]

    Reply
  • 156. Elsie  |  July 22, 2010 at 10:18 am

    @couragecampaign (a.k.a Rick) re stock photos. I think using real families fits nicely into the strategy of humanizing our cause. I would be glad to lend my image to the effort. I am a middle-aged, straight woman of color in an inter-racial marriage with gay family members.(Proud PFLAG member here.) Hence my passion for equality.

    The only caveat is that my other half, although every inch a supporter is not a loud mouth like I am and may need some coaxing to appear in the picture. Maybe I’ll just send in my wedding picture “lol”. But I’m in!

    Reply
    • 157. Alan E.  |  July 22, 2010 at 10:35 am

      Having ALL families would be more beneficial than just same-sex couples. We love our straight allies =)

      Reply
      • 158. Straight Grandmother  |  July 22, 2010 at 10:56 am

        Not to be engratiating, but does that mean me also? Even though I went totally against the grain on what the best method of counter protesting is?

        Reply
      • 159. Alan E.  |  July 22, 2010 at 11:02 am

        I would say abso-freakin-lutely. A family doesn’t mean just the couple and their kids, but the entire support system they may have. However, that would have to be a decision on the focus that P8TT would want to show. Perhaps the point would be to just show married couples, but it could also include supporters and extended family.

        Reply

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