Sioux City: NOM goes for the parking lot trifecta

August 3, 2010 at 10:34 am 190 comments

By Arisha Michelle Hatch

Today we’re in Sioux City, in Western Iowa near the confluence of Iowa, Nebraska and  South Dakota. 64 equality supporters, many with young children, joined One Iowa for a rally at Anderson Dance Pavilion in front of the Missouri River.

Pro-equality rally in Sioux City

“When we travel we take our marriage license with us,” said  Linda Wildeman, a Sioux City resident. “I’m not sure that all married couples have to do that.”

Pro-equality supporters in Sioux City

The NOM rally will be starting in 30 minutes down the road at a local church. Stay with us to find out whether NOM was able to turn out its supporters in Sioux City; if the 12-person anti-choice protest at the Planned Parenthood next to our hotel is any indication, it should be a very interesting NOM rally today.

Anti-choice protest in Sioux City, IA

UPDATE BY ADAM (10:36 PST): Phyllis just radioed in from the NOM rally- a hand-count of 53 NOM supporters have turned out. Once again, it appears NOM has been out-rallied- even in one of the more conservative parts of the state. And you’ll never guess where they held the rally.

Wait for it:

NOM rally in Sioux City

You may be having parking lot flashbacks to Lima, Ohio and Rochester, Minnesota. Props for trying to make the third time the charm, I guess.

I feel like NOM needs a little Camp Courage in their life. They could learn some organizing skills!

UPDATE BY ADAM (10:40 PST): Check out this coverage of a really wonderful and positive service/rally held this past Sunday in the First Unitarian Church in Sioux City.

According to the piece, five churches in Sioux City perform same-sex marriages. Or what Louis (hi, Louis!) might call MINO’s (Marriages In Name Only).

UPDATE BY ARISHA (10:51 PST): I see Danny Carroll has taken the baton from Louis.

“There is no such thing as same sex marriage.” said Danny Carroll to a crowd of 54 attending a NOM rally at Morningside Assembly of God church. “It’s a fabrication.”

Six equality supporters stood silently behind the rally with signs.

Brian Brown in his opening acknowledged that Iowa equality activists had been “more civil.”

In his speech, Carroll pointed to Brian’s earlier comment.

“I believe their strategy is to lay low, Carroll said. “They don’t need to attract unfriendly press….. They’re taking it easy. …Things are going their way. …They’re hoping you will forget.”

Entry filed under: NOM Tour Tracker, Right-wing.

What NOM found in Iowa BREAKING: PROP 8 TRIAL DECISION TO BE ANNOUNCED WEDNESDAY BETWEEN 1 PM – 3 PM PST

190 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 3, 2010 at 10:37 am

    Subscribing

    Reply
    • 2. Kathleen  |  August 3, 2010 at 10:38 am

      Also.

      Reply
      • 3. ĶĭŗîļĺęΧҲΪ  |  August 3, 2010 at 10:42 am

        Good day, good ladies!

        Reply
    • 4. AndrewPDX  |  August 3, 2010 at 10:43 am

      Me three

      Love,
      Andrew

      Reply
    • 5. Ann S.  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:46 pm

      Good morning to Tweedledee and Tweedledum. And the Red Queen.

      Also.

      Reply
      • 6. AndrewPDX  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:58 pm

        Hm… Now, who would be the White Queen, and what Six Impossible Things did she believe before breakfast this morning?

        Love,
        Andrew

        Reply
      • 7. Ann S.  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:03 pm

        I think the White Queen is Tamara Scott. She believes she can make up whatever numbers she wants and just because she’s up there with the microphone, sheeple believe her.

        Reply
  • 8. Alan E.  |  August 3, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Please notify me of follow-up comments via email.

    Reply
  • 10. Bolt  |  August 3, 2010 at 10:50 am

    WOW! That’s a spectacular anti-choice sign. The religious loony toonys’ are really far out! They love telling everyone how to live their lives. Where did they learn this sense of entitlement? They must really think highly of themselves.

    Reply
  • 11. Ronnie  |  August 3, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Another church parking lot…surprise, surprise….

    “According to the piece, five churches in Sioux City perform same-sex marriages. Or what Louis (hi, Louis!) might call MINO’s (Marriages In Name Only).”

    ROTFLMGAYAO….Hi Louis…..bwaaaaaa..Louis “Humpty Dumpty” MaryNelly is FAIL

    : P ……Ronnie

    Reply
    • 12. Ed's view  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:55 pm

      Wow — I seriously cringe at “MaryNelly” — ridicule based on someone’s name (Marinelli). (Another layer is that it trades on homophobia.) I think such things hurt the cause. In my opinion we would do better to always take the high road. (This also includes permanently refraining from comments that reference Maggie Gallagher’s appearance. Rob Tisinai recently wrote an excellent commentary on that subject.) We have the moral upper hand here. Let’s keep it that way.

      Reply
      • 13. Ronnie  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:32 pm

        Whatever, he deserves it for the 100x worse names & comparisons he calls LGBT people. Any hand is the moral upper hand over him. I would never make fun or people’s appearance. But Louis, as a person, doesn’t deserve respect.

        -Ronnie

        Reply
  • 14. adambink  |  August 3, 2010 at 10:53 am

    Hey everyone, some updates posted above.

    Reply
  • 15. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  August 3, 2010 at 10:56 am

    sub sub sub

    Reply
  • 16. Straight Grandmother  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Adam posted at 10:40am a paragraph about a service/rally held at the Unitarian church on Sunday. What jumped out at me is that the person at the church had received a phone call from NOM in the week prior. See that is what they are doing, they are calling all the churches before they arrive trying to drum up support.

    Even with te advance work NOM is putting forward people are just plain not showing up hardly at all. Their largest crows have been in church parking lots, and even then it is not impressive. I can kind of see how having it on church property would tend to raise the numbers a bit as the pastor probably is extra strong arming his congregation so as not to be embarassed when NOM shows up and s/he doesn’t deliver warm bodies to the hate rallys.

    So far our Courageous NOM trackers have not said which parking lot that are in, but looking at the building I would venture to guess it is a church. I could always be wrong though.

    Pleased as punch though that they are again out numbered.

    Reply
    • 17. Marlene  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:32 pm

      What gets me is that the NOMmies didn’t know that the Unitarians have *always* been on the side of the oppressed?

      Reply
  • 18. Straight Grandmother  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:03 am

    I kind of miss those #FAILNOM headlines…

    Reply
  • 19. Patrick  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:08 am

    By “anti-choice” I assume you mean “pro-life”? I know I’m in the minority here, but while we all passionately support equality not all of us agree 100% with everything on the left end of the spectrum. It’s not nice to be made to feel unwelcome and I would expect you to understand this better than most.

    But yeah, Iowa is looking good for us. The whole summer is, really. Looking forward to reading more as it comes, :-)

    Reply
    • 20. Kathleen  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:21 am

      I’m pro life; I’m also pro choice. Of course you’re welcome here, Patrick, even if we disagree on the issue of a woman’s right to choose to have an abortion.

      However, I do not subscribe to the notion that people who believe women should not have this choice are the only people who are “pro-life” any more than I subscribe to the notion that people who are anti-ss marriage are the only people who are “pro marriage.” Whether someone is for or against life is an entirely different question than whether someone is for or against the right to choose an abortion.

      Reply
    • 21. Michelle Evans  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:23 am

      I don’t want to stoke a firestorm debate about abortion, but I feel I must offer a comment about this. First off, I am thankful that I have never been in a position of having to choose whether to keep an unwanted child or not, as I can honestly say what my choice would be. But it must be MY choice.

      Just exactly as it is the choice of an LGBT person to choose whom they love and want to marry. I cannot see the difference of accepting one and not accepting the other.

      The whole premise behind our marriage equality movement is that other people should not hold OUR lives in THEIR hands. What is truly the difference of saying you are for marriage equality, but then be perfectly happy and secure by imposing your will upon another woman by saying she has no right to choose the course of her own life?

      Our standards must be consistent for everyone. That is the entire point of our movement. Equality for ALL!!

      Reply
    • 22. fiona4  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:25 am

      I can’t speak for anyone else, but when I say “anti-choice,” I do not mean “pro-life” — and here is a difference. People who stand outside womens’ health clinics and berate them for going inside — which could mean that they are having a PAP smear, picking up contraception, or any number of things — because they assume they are terminating a pregnancy? They’re anti-choice. So are the people who murder physicians, bomb clinics, and try to stop women from having access to a full range of reproductive medical services.

      Pro-life people don’t harass/”sidewalk counsel” women entering a clinic. Pro-life people do not murder physicians, bomb clinics, etc.

      I have met both kinds of people in my lifetime.

      I am pro-choice — which includes the choice to gestate a pregnancy to term. I believe that no one but the woman knows her circumstances and it’s not up to me to decide for her. Anti-choice people believe they know my circumstances (or some other woman’s circumstances) better than I do or she does.

      /nitpick

      Love,
      Fiona

      Reply
      • 23. Ann S.  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:49 pm

        Hear, hear, Fiona!!!

        <3

        Reply
      • 24. Rightthingtodo TX  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:39 pm

        doesn’t it have to do with a woman having complete sovereignty over her own body?

        misogyny seems to be dripping from this thread.

        there’s a first for everything.

        Reply
      • 25. fiona64  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:54 pm

        @Rightthingtodo: I completely concur, on all counts.

        It is the height of misogyny to insist that a woman does not have the right to bodily autonomy.

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
    • 26. AndrewPDX  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:42 am

      Agreed… It falls back on the stereotypes of religion; most anti-equality folks are also pro-life folks — but not all. And most pro-equality folks are pro-choice — but not all.
      Me, I tend to be more of a pro-lifter, advocating earlier forms of contraceptives, so that abortions would only be a last-effort resolution to rectify those cases where condoms & pills & free will were somehow circumvented.

      Let’s just remember what our rainbow flag celebrates: diversity. If we were all the same, life wold be boring :)

      Love,
      Andrew

      Reply
      • 27. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:48 am

        I also know a woman who has had two abortions because the fetus died and was decomposing inside of her and it was either that or the infection would have scarred her fallopian tubes and prevented her from having children. I don’t necessarily agree with all abortions, but the fact that they are legal means that they are safer now than in the days of the back alleys and coat hangers. Nobody should be forced to have a child. There are too many cases of the harm done to unwanted children. And not all of that harm is physical.

        Reply
    • 28. Rebecca  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:48 am

      I was going to comment on this, but you other ladies did a fantastic job explaining why “anti-choice” is the correct terminology. And now I’ll get back on topic…

      Reply
      • 29. FirePuff  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:14 pm

        Except that there are generally other choices. Thus, I reject the term pro-choice. Really, it’s just pro-abortion, anti-abortion.

        I admit I am anti-abortion, aka pro-Life, because I feel that the life exists from the point the cells start separating and forming the embryo, as they do throughout the rest of the animal kingdom. My “choice” is to preserve the life of the being that can’t make that choice, that decision, him/herself.

        That is not to say that I don’t believe abortion is inappropriate in all circumstances. A pregnancy that would kill the mother, if the knowledge is learned early enough, would be one instance. Another is like the case Richard describes.

        But, IMHO, there’s always adoption if you simply don’t want the child, and perhaps the child could enter into a wonderful home (even a SS home ^_^). And there’s birth control if you’re worried about unwanted pregnancy putting an unwanted bulge in your stomach area. People who use abortion as a form of birth control (that is, regularly using it) are the worst offenders due to irresponsibility.

        And because we’re the more rational side here at P8TT/NOMTT in regards to many things, I respect your views even though I disagree. :)

        Reply
      • 30. fiona64  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:00 pm

        FirePuff, just a quick note:

        Every single form of contraception, including surgical sterilization, has a known failure rate. It’s a common misconception (no pun intended) that women who terminate pregnancies aren’t using contraception, or “just don’t want to get fat.”

        Pregnancy is not a state of wellness, and dictating what another woman should do about a pregnancy (wanted or unwanted) takes a level of hubris that I can’t imagine.

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
      • 31. fiona64  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:00 pm

        FirePuff wrote: People who use abortion as a form of birth control (that is, regularly using it) are the worst offenders due to irresponsibility.

        They’re also a myth.

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
      • 32. Michelle Evans  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:08 pm

        FirePuff, you are absolutely correct that a woman has many choices when it comes to a pregnancy. And the bottom line is that those choices MUST be HERS, in exactly the same way that entering into a same gender marriage is the choice of the couple.

        You should have no more say in someone else’s pregnancy than Brian or Maggie or Louis should have a say in who I am married to. As simple as that!

        As with same gender marriage, no one else should have the right to interfere with anyone else’s body. You may personally not support abortion under whatever circumstances there may be, but that is the woman’s right (and it is the law!!!). It is the right of the woman to choose for herself.

        One of the other problems with the anti-choice people is that they often use rhetoric that is outright lies. (And to be absolutely clear, I am not referring to FirePuff, since she has not said anything of the sort. But am just saying this happens in many cases.) Examples are when they tell women that they will have an increased risk of breast cancer, or that they would negate their ability to have another child. This type of thing is all garbage, and yet some states actually make doctors tell patients this info, even when the doctor knows it is wrong–under legal penalty!

        It shows how vehement the anti-choice side has gotten, and why it is just as important to object to anti-choice as it is to object to anti-marriage equality.

        Reply
      • 33. FirePuff  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:54 pm

        Fiona: “They’re also a myth.”

        Except the one who spoke in front of teens at my high school 10 years ago after she eventually stopped.

        I’m not saying they’re a common occurrence, they’re in-fact quite rare, but they exist just the same as people who run around with gucci purses to pick up their foodstamps, and those who leave their babies behind when running from the law. (See URL)

        There are irresponsible people out there, there are idiots out there, there are people who do not properly understand how the world works, or think the world revolves around them without any consideration of other people or finances, etc. If there is a rule or law out there, someone has abused it… even the silly ones simply because, like children, adults like to test limits.

        But again, I have my views, you have yours. :)

        Reply
    • 34. ArishaMichelle  |  August 4, 2010 at 10:18 am

      wow, i love this blog….sparking this debate was completely unintentional but very interesting to watch unfold on this comment thread, nonetheless. just to clarify the record (and to be clear about my biases/values), I identify as both pro-life and pro-choice (in that order). I don’t personally feel that they’re mutually exclusive. Further, like many of the commenters pointed out, I view the choice issue as an issue that is inextricably linked with personal liberty and I think that as equality activists we should be clear about this; I cannot imagine a Supreme Court majority (in my lifetime) that is simultaneously anti-choice and pro-lgbt-equality. I think it’s important to be realistic.

      Reply
  • 35. AndrewPDX  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:09 am

    @ Danny Carroll… If “There is no such thing as same sex marriage,” as you are quoted as saying, then why are you fighting against it?
    Is it because your interpretation of the Bible says so? Well, my interpretation is different, so unless you want to go down saying that “There is no such thing as the First Admendment’s ‘prohibiting the free exercise [of religion]’,” you had better come up with a better reason, or just STFU!

    I’m getting sick and tired of these people pushing their agenda on me.

    Love,
    Andrew

    Reply
    • 36. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:18 am

      I agree – NOMs ‘Agenda’ is full of hate. Anyone care to post your favorite NOM Agenda items here. Sort of like how they decided we had an agenda and what ours contained. Which, by the way, I never got my copy of the GAY ”Agenda’ or a toaster oven.

      Reply
      • 37. AndrewPDX  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:04 pm

        I got the toaster oven, but it was broken. I didn’t get my copy of the Gay Agenda or the Gay Lifestyle Handbook either. Anybody know where I can pick up a copy?

        Love,
        Andrew

        Reply
      • 38. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:05 pm

        There’s a handbook too?

        Reply
      • 39. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:08 pm

        Yes, there is a handbook. I believe the author is a man named Fulghum, and the title is “All I really needed to know, I learned in Kindergarten.” Very interesting book about not judging other people, and just living life the best you can to get through each day. Little things like “if it’s dirty, clean it. If it’s wet, mop it up. If you use it, put it back.”

        Reply
      • 40. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:20 pm

        Richard, that reminds me of Harry Nilsson’s ‘The Point’.

        Reply
      • 41. nightshayde  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:05 pm

        I’m straight. I don’t think I’m allowed to have a copy.

        I’d really like a toaster oven, though. Maybe one that’s rainbow-colored?

        Hey – a girl can dream!

        Reply
      • 42. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:08 pm

        @ Nightshayde–I think I saw a rainbow-colored Toaster oven at Big Lots the other day. I think it was a GE.

        Reply
      • 43. nightshayde  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:18 pm

        Heh — I just found a multi-colored toaster online, but the colors aren’t in rainbow order.

        From the time I was a little tiny girl, I’ve had an obsession about putting things in rainbow order. I’m a little freakish about it (you should see my closet!!!). I couldn’t possibly have such a toaster (or any other appliance) unless the colors were in the correct order.

        Yeah. I know. I’m weird — but I’m happy!

        Reply
      • 44. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:23 pm

        I found six-piece sets of crazy straws at our local Dollar Tree, and I bought them simply because they had all the rainbow colors. I think I will go and get some more this week.

        Reply
      • 45. Alan E.  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:25 pm

        Have you seen this video nightshayde?

        Reply
      • 46. nightshayde  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:03 pm

        Hee hee – I just pulled out my phone so I could watch it.. I love “They Might Be Giants,” but I hadn’t seen this before.

        Thanks for sharing it. =)

        Reply
  • 47. anonygrl  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:14 am

    In his speech, Carroll pointed to Brian’s earlier comment.

    “I believe their strategy is to lay low…”

    THIS is why it is good to make noise. Yes, it annoys them and they say nasty things about us, but they, and the tens of people who show up to support them need to know that we are there, I think.

    Just my 2 cents of the day.

    Reply
    • 48. Bob  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:30 am

      we do keep going back and forth on this one, what to do , what to do, nosiy in your face , or lay back,

      actually when I read his comment, I thought the approach is working, just six people with signs visible at the rally, they can’t say we’re in their face,

      his comment seemed to me like a confirmation of the notion that they are trying to insight us.

      dunno, but this was the right approach for this State, I liked thier church service at the Unitarian Church. can’t use that old line that we’re trying to disturb their right to free speach.

      but still the bottom line is what is effective at getting PR, main stream media coverage,

      Reply
      • 49. Bob  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:28 pm

        @Sagesse, well stated, and as Ronnie would say I concur.

        As I’ve watched these rallies unfold, I have seen the wisdom of allowing each state to choose the approach best suited to their situation, and frankly I’m amazed at the progress already made in so many states, that they are beyond the act up thing.

        NOM’s message must be dealt with in some way though from a nationally perspecitve, or response, they are instilling fear, which gets acted on by people resulting in death, like the little boy whose father killed him for acting like a girl. perhaps we could uise that point as our rallying cry, nationwide, and confront NOM with the results of their messge

        Reply
    • 50. Rebecca  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:51 am

      I have been struggling with this for some time now. I see the merits of both kinds of protest. I love that One Iowa can have a big rally down the street from NOM and outnumber them. But I do kind of enjoy it when we get in BB’s face and annoy the &^$# out of him.

      When we are there and vocal about it, we are also saying, we will not allow you to even fool yourself into thinking you are in the right or the majority. Because all of those NOM’ers have some massive self-denial and self-deceit issues. If they were honest or logical, they would see they have no position. To be the way they are, they have to lie, especially to themselves.

      Reply
      • 51. Bob  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:11 pm

        I’m hoping one of the counter protests will pick that in your face act up approach, as the right one for them,

        meantime, I’m hoping someone gets some coverage of the AFTAH protest, mentioned on the other thread, cause it sounds like that’s the approach they’re going for.

        Reply
      • 52. Sagesse  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:12 pm

        There are really two questions.

        1. What is the best generic strategy to get marriage equality nationwide… which is implicitly behind the discussions that go on on this board, since the group is national, and

        2. When meeting NOM on the ground, particularly in a ‘battleground state’ like Iowa, or Minnesota, or Rhode Island, where the outcome in November will affect the near term prospect of getting or keeping marriage equality, I believe we should defer without question to the equality team on the ground who have thought through their plan. One Iowa understands the fight there, and we should not be second guessing them.

        ‘We’ may be itching to get up in NOM’s face, but marriage equality in Iowa is first and foremost for the people of Iowa.

        One person’s opinion.

        Reply
      • 53. anonygrl  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:18 pm

        You all make very good points for both styles, and I don’t know which is better. I am inclined to believe that they both are working, and my preference for loud stems from the fact that I like to be able to look them right in the face and say “Really? SERIOUSLY? Is that what you believe?” in response to the various homosexuality is perversion, like pedophilia, evil, sinful, peanut buttery, bad for children, wrong to teach in schools, smelly in God’s nose, abusive to our partners, and a mockery of marriage comments.

        But yes, the teams on the ground know their audiences and should lead the charges, be they blatant or subtle.

        Reply
    • 54. Victoria  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:00 pm

      The only downside to the in your face approach though is that it will actually create that flight or fight panic in the NOMsters. In doing that, it encourages them to hold even more steadfastly to their hate. If they think they have the numbers though, why care so much. They continue on, leading their lives, probably not donating much…while we continue on fighting where it matters most – court and statehouse. There’s something to be said for lulling people into complacency – until the momentum has officially swung and their urgency will have no effect.

      I don’t know. I do love what happened in Madison; the parade made me smile through tears. But I also know that those who attend the NOM rallies are probably lost causes. They need to be right because they are scared to be wrong. The definition of lost cause. So if the pro-equality rally is held elsewhere and it’s full of happy, non-shouting people who are dancing, having fun, and talking about love and acceptance…well, I have faith that that can better reach the non-lost-causes. Those on the fence. Those really considering. Those who don’t think they have all the answers and could possibly be still looking for the answer right for them.

      Maybe idealistic…

      Reply
    • 56. Marlene  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:40 pm

      My opinion (fwiw) is to make lots of noise approaching the NOM rally, and to remain fairly silent during the speeches.

      *But*, whenever Brian or Louis (hiiiiiii Louis!!) or any other twit gets up there and makes wild claims, is the time for our side to erupt in laughter! There’s nothing to take the wind out of the sails of disinformation than a ton of laughter!

      Reply
  • 57. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Actually, what NOM needs is diversity training and a refresher course in what the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution REALLY mean. You know, that little thing about all of us being equal, not just some of us?

    Reply
    • 58. Michelle Evans  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:33 am

      Richard, NOM has already made up their own indoctrination… er, education… concerning the Constitution. They, and people like them, are knowingly changing history every day. Look at the Texas school text book case! I can’t believe the people at the top are unaware of what they are doing. They HAVE to know that what they are saying is bull&%$#, but those they preach to are the ones too ignorant or too stupid to think for themselves. And that’s what they count on for support (and donations!).

      Last night on HBO there was a superb documentary called “12th and Deleware.” It concerns an abortion clinic on one side of the street and an anti-abortion church office on the other side.

      Not to get into the abortion debate above, the point here is that the manager of the anti-abortion facility was training new recruits on their tactics to steal away women seeking abortions across the street. Most anyone with any intelligence, listening to what she said, would understand the horrors of the type of tactics being used. But she justifies her actions by saying, “I checked with Father Tom, and he says it is okay to do what we do.”

      She has checked her morality at the door, and fully accepted that she is not required to think for herself. Someone else can impose their moral judgment on her, and she thinks that is just great!

      Reply
      • 59. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:40 am

        Thank you, Michelle. And maybe that woman thinks it is great that she can check her morality at the door and someone else will absolve her of her misdeeds. However, I know better. I am the one who is accountable for my deeds, and while I have made some mistakes, nobody else is responsible for them, and I have paid the price for them many times over. In fact, in some ways I am still paying the price for some of them, and there are those who will never accept that the debt is paid in full. Nobody should have to live like that, and yet if MG, BB, LJM, and the rest of NOM have their way, all of us will be paying the price for the mistakes and the folly of others, and we had better not make ANY mistakes or we will never bee allowed to mark the debt as paid in full, no matter how much we make amends for it.

        Reply
      • 60. PamC  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:36 pm

        Your example of the woman spouting priest-endorsed tactics is another way that folks succumb to ideology over compassion. She and her followers are making plans about hypothetical people, not living, breathing beings. This is why such folks prefer diatribes to dialogue. We aren’t real to them. Their ideas have become more real than the “neighbors” they walk around.

        Reply
    • 61. AndrewPDX  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:51 pm

      But, don’t you know that the Declaration and Constitution are just pieces of paper? Surely, that can’t be important, right?

      It’s just that they would say ‘yes’ to that. They’ll just say that ‘God’s Law’ (or rather their interpretation thereof) supercedes ‘Man’s Law’. Sigh.

      Love,
      Andrew

      Reply
      • 62. Rebecca  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:44 pm

        Hmm.. I’m pretty sure the Bible is printed on paper. Does that mean the printed Bible is meaningless by NOM’s standards too??

        Reply
      • 63. AndrewPDX  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:18 pm

        Hm… Good point… Can we claim they’re written in fire on stone tablets? Or is that just for the Nine Commandments (as these guys somehow have ignored the “thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor” one)?

        Love,
        Andrew

        Reply
  • 64. Sagesse  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Pulling up a chair.

    Reply
  • 65. AB  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:40 am

    This is a bit off topic, but are we ever going to get a decision?

    Reply
    • 66. EdC  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:47 am

      I’m betting on August 16, the day after the H8 tour ends.

      Reply
      • 67. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:49 am

        I figure Judge Walker will release his decision once the confirmation vote on Justice Kagan is finalized and she is sworn in.

        Reply
      • 68. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:54 am

        That’s interesting Richard. That had never crossed my mind. I keep looking for Kathleen’s email saying she got the news!

        Reply
      • 69. Kathleen  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:55 am

        I seriously doubt Kagan’s nomination has anything to do with when Walker will issue a decision. If his decision happens to come out immediately following or preceding any particular event, it is pure coincidence.

        Reply
      • 70. AB  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:00 pm

        He hasn’t even ruled on whether or not he will notify the media and the attorneys in advance. The suspense is killing me. Surely there is someone with some insider info somewhere!

        Reply
      • 71. anonygrl  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:07 pm

        Doesn’t he have to notify the attorneys? I mean, does he not need to reconvene court and read his decision to them? Or am I misunderstanding how this works?

        Reply
      • 72. Kathleen  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:21 pm

        No. Not necessary. Most likely, he will simply distribute the decision to the appropriate people and enter the decision on the docket. Because the court has set up a website specific to this case, the clerk will likely post the decision there, as well.

        Reply
      • 73. AB  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:23 pm

        The media filed a request to get 48 hours notice. The prop 8 attorneys filed a statement of support and asked him to include them in the notice too. And so far… nothing. No response to that, much less a sign of a decision.

        Reply
    • 74. AB  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:24 pm

      Sorry, I meant to say the anti-prop 8 attorneys. Our attotneys. Ted Olsen.

      Reply
    • 75. Anna Bryan  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:46 pm

      I suspect the only notification we will get before the Perry (Prop 8) decision is the police barriers going up in Castro and West Hollywood.

      Reply
      • 76. AB  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:49 pm

        I wonder if the length of time it is taking to make the decision is a tea leaf we could be reading.

        Reply
      • 77. Kathleen  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:54 pm

        I’ve said this before, apologies to everyone for whom this is a repeat:

        I know this seems like forever, but there is nothing unusual in the amount of time this is taking, especially for a case that involves several fundamental legal questions and considering the sheer volume of evidence and testimony. And this isn’t the only case Walker is presiding over; he continues to have a full calendar in his court.

        But to get perspective, look at two recent cases that have been decided:
        DOMA in Mass (Gill) -trial concluded May 6, decision July 8 (9 weeks); DC Marriage case-oral arguments May 4, decision July 26 (12 weeks)

        In the Perry case, It’s not been quite 7 weeks since closing arguments.

        Reply
      • 78. AB  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:26 pm

        Fair enough, Kathleen.
        I am very familiar with how long it tends to take; I suppose I am only concerned in this case because initial feelings seemed to suggest it would be an easy call and that we would have a decision in early July.

        Reply
      • 79. Kathleen  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:31 pm

        I had heard some people express the opinion that it would likely be a “a few weeks” from the end of closing arguments. However, subsequent to that I saw an interview with David Boies saying he thought it would probably be some time in mid-August.

        As you likely know, even if the evidence means it’s an easy call, it doesn’t mean the decision can be written quickly.

        Reply
      • 80. anonygrl  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:53 pm

        @ Kathleen
        Not to mention that he is probably writing the equivalent of a novel’s worth of pages. Yes, he is a busy man.

        Reply
      • 81. Ann S.  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:53 pm

        I usually hear about these things because my brother will Tweet about it or will call me because he and his husband have been interviewed for the local news and they want me to try to tape it. If I hear, I will certainly come here and try to let everyone know.

        Reply
      • 82. Kathleen  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:57 pm

        @Anne, do you mean your brother may have advance notice of when the decision will come out?

        Reply
      • 83. Ann S.  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:05 pm

        @Anna, I just mean he’ll know sooner than anyone else I know. And then I’ll find out from him. Whether that will be “advance” or not, I have no idea.

        Reply
      • 84. Kathleen  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:15 pm

        Just so you know, AFER has a sign-up available that will put you on a list to be notified as soon as the decision is released.

        Also, I’m subscribed to a listserve which notifies me whenever anything new is placed on the docket. Whenever I get notice, I access the document through my PACER account, upload it to Scribd, and post the link here and on the Prop 8 Trial Tracker facebook page.

        That’s why I know Walker hasn’t responded, at least not in writing in a filing placed on the docket, to the reques by the Media Coalition and plantiffs’ attorneys to give 48 hours’ notice of the decision.

        Reply
      • 85. Ann S.  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:18 pm

        @Kathleen, thanks, I meant to address my last comment to you, as well. I think I was on that AFER list for an email, but I signed up again, just to be sure.

        Reply
      • 86. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:56 pm

        AFER also has a short code available so that you can receive a text notice on your phone when the decision comes down. I signed up for both.

        Reply
  • 87. bbock  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:51 am

    I actually agree with the NOM speaker on one thing. “Same sex marriage” IS a fabrication. I was married to my husband in California and my marriage certificate doesn’t indicate a “same sex marriage.” It’s just a regular, run of the mill “Certificate of Marriage” like everyone else got that day.

    Reply
    • 88. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:55 am

      AMEN!

      Reply
    • 89. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:05 pm

      EXACTLY!! I don’t want Gay marriage, I want marriage
      Marriage Equality!!
      Nothing less…no gay mariage vs straight marriage…just marriage

      Reply
      • 90. Sagesse  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:17 pm

        Repeat, many times.

        There is no right to gay marriage.

        There is no right to redefine marriage.

        It is each person’s fundamental right TO MARRY…. [by implication the person of one’s choosing].

        Reply
      • 91. Straight Ally #3008  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:42 pm

        Well, Sagesse, it’s only a fundamental right if you listen to Supreme Court decisions.

        ;-D

        Reply
      • 92. Sagesse  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:23 pm

        I’m all for reading them the letter of the law. Let them respond how they will.

        Reply
    • 93. EdC  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:05 pm

      I just checked ours (July 14, 2008 – Bastille day) and it doesn’t say anything about being a “same sex marriage” either!

      Reply
    • 94. anonygrl  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:08 pm

      FABULOUS point! Well spotted! Thanks!

      Reply
    • 95. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:10 pm

      And the application for a marriage license in DC doesn’t say “Application for Same-Sex Marriage License,” it just says “Application for Marriage LIcense.”

      Reply
  • 96. Anna Bryan  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Tamara Scott said that a Christian man and woman was required to raise a child AND nom printed it in their blog. Is this the new propaganda being proposed by NOM – that you are unfit to raise a child if you aren’t a Christian?

    Reply
    • 97. Kathleen  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:38 pm

      I thought the blog quoted her as saying “it takes a Godly man and woman.” It definitely suggests that if you don’t believe in a god, then you’re unfit.

      I’ve been most interested in their rhetoric in states which have marriage equality. It takes the whole denial thing to an absurd extreme. ‘We not only deny you have a right to marriage, but when the state disagrees, we’ll just deny that what you have is a marriage.’

      Reply
      • 98. Anna Bryan  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:52 pm

        You are right. I really don’t know how to discriminate against potential parents now. “Godly” is so – non-specific. Clearly Atheists are out. I assume Scientologists as well – space people aren’t “Gods”. What about Budhists? or Hindus?

        This is really confusing. Do you think NOM would clarify?

        Reply
      • 99. anonygrl  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:54 pm

        And if that is what it takes, I am ok with it. As long as the state says we are good to go, I am satisfied, and if we are never married in the eyes of NOM, well, it is a price I am willing to pay.

        I am sure that in years to come as we sit by the fire with our husbands and wives, our children playing at our feet, our mockery licenses framed over the mantle, our friends and families close at hand we will think back with regret that NOM did not bless our unions.

        Then we will call Brian up, with sorrow in our hearts… and giggle, then hang up quickly.

        Reply
      • 100. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:55 pm

        Only after they totally sanitize their membership list. That is who they mean by “Godly men and women,” after all. If you aren’t for NOM, you are against ALL religion. Of course, that only holds true when you consider that they believe that they hold the copyright on religion and that they implicitly and infallibly know the will of God.

        Reply
      • 101. anonygrl  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:56 pm

        @Anna – Do you think we should ask if that means that Catholic priests and nuns would make the best parents?

        Reply
      • 102. Kathleen  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:56 pm

        Nice to see you “Anna” – have loved following you on your twitter account!

        Reply
      • 103. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 12:58 pm

        And we will have both our marriage license and our ketubah hanging side by side. We may call MagPie, just to see how divorce is treating her, or if she has been able to convince Joe Solmonese to come out as a straight man.

        Reply
      • 104. Kathleen  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:01 pm

        Yeah, I could give a rat’s ass how NOM defines marriage, as long as they don’t insist on civil law coinciding with their view. I’ve just been interested in watching this latest line of rhetoric come front and center.

        Actually, I’ve enjoyed watching them become more vocal in expressing their real messages, as opposed to all that ‘we love you’ bs.

        Reply
      • 105. nightshayde  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:12 pm

        @Richard A Walter:

        I’m sure this is some totally Freudian thing, but I originally read the first sentence of your post as “Only after they totally sterilize their membership list.”

        There are too many snarky comments floating around in my head right now — and I can’t stop giggling.

        Reply
      • 106. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:20 pm

        At least I was able to contribute to your laughter. So I guess that is one thing I did right today.

        Reply
      • 107. Victoria  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:22 pm

        The sanitize comment is really kinda….scary.

        Also…I think it’s kind of comical. The amount of destruction in this world at the hands of religious people and institutions is ridiculous. Yet, they feel entitled to be the ones to procreate. It’s completely backwards…unless the overarching intention of the institution is to build out an army to fight for it.

        Reply
    • 108. Bob  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:11 pm

      And also it’s Christian men and women who kill their babies if they suspect them of being gay??????

      Only a Christian parent can decide if a child is worthy of living or dying????

      Reply
      • 109. Joel  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:18 pm

        There’s a troll on the topix site who actually advocates aborting fetuses, if they can figure out a way to determine sexual orientation before birth! Really! And she’s serious!

        Reply
    • 110. nightshayde  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:13 pm

      Oh crap. If you have to be Christian in order to be fit to raise a child, I must be an unfit parent. My parents were also unfit parents, as were their parents before them.

      Oh noez!!! Weer doin it rong!!!!

      Reply
      • 111. nightshayde  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:14 pm

        *sigh* That was supposed to go under Anna Bryan’s 12:33pm post higher up.

        Pfft. I give up (for now). I’m going to lunch.

        Reply
    • 112. Timothy Kincaid  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:33 pm

      Someone tell NOM that godly is properly spelled with a small “g”.

      Reply
  • 113. Straight Grandmother  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    I wonder if there are going to be any more updates coming? It is late in Provence and think I am going to go to bed.

    Reply
    • 114. Bob  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:27 pm

      oh you left too early Straight Grandmother, there is more news, the news you’ve been waiting for, the Ruling is Tomorrow sleep well

      Reply
  • 115. Box Turtle Bulletin » NOM in Sioux City, nothing new  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    […] And about 54 people showed up at the Morningside Assembly of God church parking lot to hear it. Six equality supporters quietly held signs. Earlier, across town 64 marriage supporters met to pledge their continued efforts to keeping marriage legal in Iowa, a follow up to a multi-denominational faith-based rally on Sunday. But about 156,500 people in Sioux City had better things to do this week than weigh in on marriage. […]

    Reply
  • 116. Bob  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    the child’s name was Roy, he was 17 months old, he was killed for acting like a girl,

    does anyone care????

    Reply
    • 117. Ronnie  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:37 pm

      I care…the anti-gays clearly don’t…I think somebody should push a picture of the innocent little boy in Brian Brown & Louis’s face & say “How would you feel if this was your child…Do you even have a heart?…This is what your followers do…This is what your anti-gay words & that of your speakers do…SHAME ON YOU!!!”

      >I ….Ronnie

      Reply
    • 118. Straight Grandmother  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:39 pm

      Yes Bob I care deeply, and am deeply saddened. I also read the second article Ronnie linked to, again another child literally beat to death, the caregiver fearing the young boy child was acting to girly. I should have replied, just a bit tired today as I had a long day of work on the olive farm. You know I care about children, my grandchildren and all children. It is really really really sad isn’t it?
      I am also so proud of Ronnie how he is participating in Freedom Fighters for Equality. Because of him I went to that Facebook page and read a bit. They, those people on that Facebook site are really standing up for Equality adn I do feel they make a difference. They are not letting any scurious statments against GLBT people go unchallanged. I guess we are all trying to do our small part.

      Reply
      • 119. Ronnie  |  August 3, 2010 at 1:58 pm

        @SG….awwww…I’m proud of you too…& one of the admins of FF4E said that’s sweet of you to say…..It is true we are all trying to do our part…& more & more those parts are joining together to defeat adversity. We stare in the faces of Homophobia, Hate, Bigotry, Evil, Tyranny, & Destruction & say:

        NO!!!! Bad Faces!…EQUALITY NOW!!!…Love & Freedom will overcome!!!!

        <3…Ronnie

        Reply
    • 120. fiona64  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:02 pm

      Okay, I keep looking for this article/link.

      Child abuse is horrific, whatever the reason. I guess, though that Louis (Hi, Louis!) would be okay with this, since it’s all about having children and not about love …

      Love,
      Fiona

      Reply
      • 121. Bob  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:34 pm

        @Fiona, Ronnie posted the link to Towerroad.com, on the last thread,
        the baby was killed for acting like a girl,,,,,, and the point I’m trying to make here is that we are all so engrossed with what Louis or NOM’s opinion is,,,, that our own capacity to greave is somehow lost.

        @Ronnie maybe Freedom Fighters For Equality could push this as a hate crime, I know locally gay activists have to push the police and hold them accountable to take it to that level,

        Reply
      • 122. fiona64  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:56 pm

        I need to search out this link, obviously.

        How can one establish that a 17-month-old infant is “acting like” anything? For crying out loud …

        Argh.

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
  • 123. Bob  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Thank you Ronnie, and Straight Grandmother, for caring, I know we are tired, we all contribute in our own way, but we are so focused on this dog and pony show with NOM, that no one seems to really understand, perhaps it that it’s just to hard to face, easier to fight ideologies, stratigize work for equality, focus there takes the attention away from the reality.

    If anyone else cares, please ad your posts here in memory of little Roy, who was killed for acting like a girl.

    I need some reassurance NOW from this community I’ve felt so close too, have I been wrong, where is our heart, please reassure me, that more than three of us care about this baby.

    Reply
    • 124. Straight Grandmother  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:13 pm

      Bob, FYI my twin grandchildren a boy and a girl are just 2 years old so reading about those poor poor little babies beat to death it really mad me sad, so close in age to my grandcildren. And for what? Fear of a baby, a little tiny child might turn out gay, how sad.

      Keep fighting Ronnie. I know you used to post over here more and were particularly good at bringing us you tube videos, all kinds. But I do know that when you are not here you are still fighting for justice. It really makes me proud of what you are doing. You are still here enough but that is okay keep up the good work at FFFE.

      Reply
    • 125. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:08 pm

      Of course we care about this baby…what in the world would make you think otherwise?
      As the father of two children I can’t even imagine what my children could have done that would ever have made me think they would be better off dead.
      RIP baby Roy….you are in God’s hands now and he surely loves you

      Reply
    • 126. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:39 pm

      Bob, all I am able to say about this is that the one who killed this little boy should be glad he is in police custody. Of course, he may not be so glad to be there once the other inmates find out that he harmed a toddler. His life in prison will not be worth a plugged nickel. I cannot say what I would like to do to him. And I actually am glad that my son and grandson came over to pick up some wood that we had in the back yard that our son needs for some projects around his house, so that I was able to calm down enough to be able to type in a rational manner and not kill my keyboard. This meshuggah is a SHANDA der Menchen. And yet, according to the NOMbies, we are the ones who harm children. How can loving a child and bringing that child up to believe that he or she is a worthwhile human being be harmful> Beating a child to death is harmful; raising a child to know he or she is loved is healthy and helpful to the child and to society at large.
      Ronnie, can you email me a picture of this little boy? I have a pair of t-shirts I want to make, and I am going to wear mine to meet them when they come to Raleigh.

      Reply
    • 133. StraightForEquality  |  August 3, 2010 at 5:36 pm

      I can’t even imagine a baby that age acting boyish or girlish. I think they all just act babyish when they are that young. I don’t think there is a gender distinction. Poor Roy was probably killed for acting like a baby. How will his killer live with himself? But then, he is not normal and may not feel the expected guilt.

      Reply
  • 134. Ann S.  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    Lots of people posted about this in another thread, too. I think we all care.

    Reply
  • 135. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    OT…Family Research Council doesn’t want us ‘gays’ on the trains…???

    Video from Rachel Maddow’s show…

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#38531221

    Reply
    • 136. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:47 pm

      What, they think there aren’t gays on the trains and planes NOW!?! I mean, we have to travel just like anybody else, and there are times that it is cheaper to ride AmTrak, Greyhound, or a plane than to take your car. They are the ones who are off the rails. And they are way more than a bubble and a half off plumb.
      Is this another case of their brain cells being divorced and therefore not communicating?

      Reply
    • 137. Anonygrl  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:00 pm

      My favorite line was Rachel’s “If we didn’t have the Family Research Council, we’d invent them,” as she laughed the story to a close.

      Reply
  • 138. Bob  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    some other thread//// not good enough, we all need to come together, Courage Campaign could dedicate a page, so we could all dedicate our sentiments, in a meaningful way, we can’t keepo blathering away about our own opinions and let this slip, without special attention,

    Please Courage Campaign, dedicate a page to baby Roy

    Reply
    • 139. Straight Grandmother  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:18 pm

      Well I am on board with a memorial page. I know I am probably irritating people but honestly it is pretty rare to find us writing about children here. It is 99% talk about adult relationships and SSM, and not very much at all about familes with minor children. So I say YES to poor baby Roy getting honored by us here at P8TT. I am touched that you care so much Bob. Do you have children? Do you think one day you might have children if you don’t already?

      Reply
    • 140. Ann S.  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:21 pm

      Not good enough??? I commented as soon as I read about it, but that’s not good enough.

      OK.

      Reply
    • 141. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:51 pm

      To Baby Roy and to all our children who have been killed by heartless b****ards who think they are big men because they killed a little one before he or she could grow up gay. And cross post it to NOM so that they can see what their hate-filled rhetoric does to HARM the children.

      Reply
  • 142. Bob  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    @Ann, the comment wasn’t directed at you, or your timing, it was meant to point out, that we need one thread, so we can be sure we take a moment to pause and reflect on this situation, I appreciate your post, but I don’t want the significance of this death to be lost by thinking other people do care, and they’ve posted it elsewhere.

    If Courage Camkpaign can’t see the significance of this event, in the middle of our tour, then someone is asleep at the switch.
    Surely we can pause from our normal posting, if one page can’t be dedicated to little Roy, we’ve all lost it.

    Reply
    • 143. Ann S.  |  August 3, 2010 at 2:42 pm

      @Bob, sorry, I misunderstood.

      Reply
    • 144. nightshayde  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:30 pm

      Did you post a link about this somewhere, Bob? I have no earthly clue what you’re talking about.

      Reply
      • 145. Ann S.  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:34 pm

        Bob is speaking of this tragedy: http://www.towleroad.com/2010/08/long-island-man-kills-infant-boy-for-acting-like-a-girl.html

        Reply
      • 147. Bob  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:40 pm

        sorry I’m not good with links, Ronnie posted it on the last thread, http://www.towleroad.com a little boy named Roy was beaten and died, the boyfriend of his mother said he did it becasue Roy was acting like a girl,,,,,,,,

        Reply
      • 148. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:03 pm

        He murders a 17-month-old baby, and all he is getting charged with is first degree manslaughter!?! WTF!!!! That is a SHANDA!!!

        Reply
      • 149. nightshayde  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:06 pm

        Thank you. I just shared that link with a friend here at work.

        To be fair, we have no idea whether this sorry excuse for a human GOT his ideas about sexuality or whether they were religiously-based — so I’m not sure that blaming his behavior on right-wing-so-called-Christian teachings is entirely justified.

        Yes — he’s clearly homophobic and violent. Do we know if he claims to be Christian (or any other religion, for that matter)? While the motivation in many sexual-orientation-based hate crimes is clearly religious in nature, religious wing-nuts certainly don’t have a monopoly in that regard.

        Reply
      • 150. fiona64  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:22 pm

        Richard, laws vary from state to state as to what constitutes murder and the various degrees thereof. In New York (isn’t this case in Long Island), the only way someone will be charged with first degree murder is if they kill a law enforcement officer.

        Love,
        Fiona (who wishes she weren’t so well versed in all of this)

        Reply
      • 151. Sagesse  |  August 3, 2010 at 5:59 pm

        @nightshayde

        Isn’t it also possible that someone who would kill a baby for any reason is mentally unstable.

        Reply
      • 152. nightshayde  |  August 3, 2010 at 6:04 pm

        Well, yes — I’m pretty sure you would have to be mentally unstable to beat a small child (whether to death or not).

        Then again, I have doubts about the mental stability of people who adhere to religions in which the believer is treated like a 2nd class citizen by other practitioners of the religion, but that’s another matter…

        I’m pretty sure we can all agree that the piece of trash who killed that sweet little boy should never see a second of freedom again whether his actions were based on religious belief, sheer ignorance, mental imbalance, unmitigated evil, or any combination thereof.

        Reply
      • 153. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 6:46 pm

        I know. I forgot about that. Of course, I was also outraged when Mark David Chapman was only charged with 3nd Degree murder after killing John Lennon. But still, this meshuggah should be charged with something stronger than first Degree manslaughter! He killed a little innocent baby! Forgive me, but this just makes me so angry, and all I want to do right now is go to Long Island and give this shitekop the same treatment he gave little Roy. At least in Pedro’s case, it would be well-deserved.

        Reply
    • 154. AndrewPDX  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:57 pm

      OMG. I just read this article and I’m sick — literally sick to my stomach. How could somebody do that to a little baby? Ugh… I gotta go puke….

      Back…And what’s worse IMO, is that many mainstream news blurbs just mention the baseball bat, nothing about possible motivation.

      If the prosecutors are going with the ‘too girly’ motivation, then I would push for this to be treated as a hate crime.

      And the gut is pleading not guilty to manslaughter? What is his defense? It was the one-armed man? Please tell me he’s not going for “it was an act of love”, or I’m going to puke again.

      RIP, little Roy

      With love, tho that is difficult to muster right now,
      Andrew

      Reply
      • 155. nightshayde  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:10 pm

        How, exactly, does a 17-month old boy “act like a girl?”

        Sexual orientation issues aside, I’m really f’ing offended by gender-based behavioral stereotypes and expectations (though I suppose you can’t really separate gender-based behavioral expectations from sexual orientation issues).

        Hegemonic Masculinity. Will it ever end?

        Reply
    • 156. Alan E.  |  August 3, 2010 at 5:42 pm

      I just got off the phone with my mom. She works in a children’s hospital working with kids with brain injuries. She is just as sick as many of us about the situation, bt she said something that may surprise some of you. She said that it was better that the child did not survive instead of living brought this incident. Hear me out before you come to any conclusion.

      The kid would not have done well going through that much trauma and would have ended up a vegetable for the rest of whatever life it would have had. The pain that the child and the family would have to go through would go on for much longer. That’s not to give any leeway or leniancy to the guy who did this, but this child’s life was taken no matter what. Knowing the pain that children with injuries like that and survive go through, she thinks that it is better that he doesn’t have to suffer. Of course, though, a regular life would have been infinitely better.

      Reply
  • 157. Kathleen  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Gay Couples Sue Alaska Over Tax Inequity
    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/08/03/Gay_Couples_Sue_Alaska_Over_Tax_Inequity/

    Reply
    • 158. Ann S.  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:25 pm

      Thanks for that news, Kathleen.

      Reply
    • 159. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:26 pm

      If we all keep chipping away at ‘them’ we will one day win what is rightfully ours to begin with.
      Thanks for the news Kathleen :-)

      Reply
    • 160. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:35 pm

      Great news! I am wondering if DOMA Watch is going to add it to their site.

      http://www.domawatch.org/

      Reply
    • 161. Bob  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:08 pm

      good to have some other news to distract us from the horrific death of baby Roy,,,,, before you make another comment Kathleen, I want to hear you acknowledge that you’ve accepted this death into your awareness.

      Reply
  • 162. Sagesse  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    “There is no such thing as same sex marriage.” said Danny Carroll.

    Is this the appropriate moment to ask what his definition of ‘is’ is?

    Reply
  • 163. Straight Ally #3008  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Just invited my Atlanta and Orlando friends to the rallies…hope I can swing some extra folks your way!

    Reply
  • 164. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 3, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    OT – Great letter

    LETTER — Don’t accept legal barriers and push gays into the closet

    I wonder why we, as a free society, cannot honor their [homosexuals] integrity and simply embrace them for who they are, just like us, children of an all-loving God. For our well-being, must we keep pushing them into closets? Must we deny them the freedom to love and be loved? What does continued discrimination say about us, that we cannot love as God has loved us?

    Read full article here: http://www.hollandsentinel.com/opinions/x1137369488/LETTER-Don-t-accept-legal-barriers-and-push-gays-into-the-closet

    Reply
  • 165. DazedWheels  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    I just got this via email, and didn’t see it mentioned anywhere. Have the rest of you seen it?

    August 3, 2010

    ANNOUNCEMENT

    On August 4, 2010, the court will issue its written order containing findings of fact and conclusions of law following the court trial held in January and June of this year. The order will be e-filed in the court’s Electronic Case Filing system, and will be immediately available thereafter through ECF and PACER. Visit http://www.cand.uscourts.gov for details on registering for PACER. There will be no court proceeding associated with the publication of the order.

    A small number of hard copies will also be made available for public review shortly after the order is e-filed in the following locations:

    San Francisco Courthouse: Clerk’s Office (16th Floor) & Press Room (18th Floor)

    Oakland Courthouse: Clerk’s Office

    San Jose Courthouse: Clerk’s Office

    Lynn Fuller
    Media & Public Outreach Liaison
    United States District Court
    Northern District of California
    (415)522-4051

    Reply
    • 166. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:07 pm

      @ Kathleen???

      Is this what we have been waiting for?

      Reply
    • 167. Ann S.  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:07 pm

      Wow, that looks like IT.

      Reply
    • 168. Anonygrl  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:09 pm

      Really? Wow. I’m not sure I can breathe right now.

      Reply
    • 169. Victoria  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:12 pm

      Wow. Here we go….

      Yay. I hope.

      Reply
    • 170. Elsie  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:14 pm

      I got a tweet from AFER saying the same thing. Anyone have info about the day of decision activities in San Fran? I plan to go.

      Reply
    • 171. nightshayde  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:19 pm

      Does anyone know what TIME the ruling is going to be posted?

      OMG OMG OMG – my heart is racing now. I hope I’ll be able to sleep tonight.

      Reply
    • 172. l8r_g8r  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:21 pm

      I just stood up, sat back down, stood up again, turned around, sat back down, posted something on facebook, and I am presently freaking out just a little bit.

      Who knew I was so emotional?

      Reply
  • 173. Anonygrl  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    It IS! It’s tomorrow folks!

    Reply
    • 174. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:12 pm

      Whooooo!!!!!!!

      Happy dance…who’s got the happy feet video!!!

      Reply
    • 175. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:14 pm

      Reply
  • 176. Bolt  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Prop 8 ruling tomorrow!

    Reply
  • 177. nightshayde  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    Please someone ANYONE tell me to keep my feet on the ground & not to go getting my hopes up that the ruling will go the way we all want it to go…

    If Walker lets Prop 8 stand… I don’t even want to think about it.

    Reply
    • 178. Anonygrl  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:15 pm

      He won’t.

      Reply
      • 179. l8r_g8r  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:22 pm

        I don’t know… the other side – you know, the “Pro-Marriage” side – had sooooooooooo much evidence. /sarcasm

        Reply
      • 180. nightshayde  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:25 pm

        I know that a rational person looking at the evidence from both sides (as if both sides presented actual evidence) couldn’t possibly allow Prop 8 to stand — but what if he’s not as rational as we all believe him to be?

        I really believe it’s going to go our way — but I don’t know how I’ll handle the despair if it doesn’t go our way.

        Reply
      • 181. Anonygrl  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:53 pm

        @nightshayde

        I will tell you how you will handle it, if for some reason it doesn’t go the way we know it will. You will cry, but so will we all, then we will meet up back here and get to work figuring out what the next step is. And we will prop each other up in the process… hang in there! It’ll be ok!

        Reply
      • 182. nightshayde  |  August 3, 2010 at 6:06 pm

        Thanks, Anonygrl. Your comment actually just brought tears to my eyes.

        I’ve gotta say — this is one amazing little group we have here!

        Reply
      • 183. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 3, 2010 at 6:54 pm

        @ nightshayde: This is not just any other group. We have become an Internet-Empowered Extended Family, complete with the support and squabbles that accompany any other loving family. And yes, I love all of you!

        Reply
    • 184. Victoria  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:24 pm

      Let’s just hope the reasoning and language is sound. That’s my concern. In what condition and under what analysis will the higher courts get the case/facts/law…fingers crossed on that one…

      Reply
      • 185. Anonygrl  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:29 pm

        By all accounts Walker is a very good judge… and I know he asked lots of very good questions, of BOTH sides, during the trial. The transcripts make a really good read.

        Reply
  • 186. Joel  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    Sh*t. I feel like I’m waiting to hear if I got into the Madrigal Ensemble my freshman year in high school. Not a snowball’s chance in hell I’ll get any work done tonight!

    Reply
  • 187. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  August 3, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    I CAN’T BREATHE!!
    WOW!!!
    I will NOT be sleeping tonight I have a feeling
    (happy dance happy dance happy dance)

    Reply
  • 188. Mark M  |  August 3, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    @Anonygrl
    Your comment to nightshayde was so completely sweet and so absolutely true.
    IF the ruling does go against us we all will cry, and than get angry, and than as you say meet back here and move forward.
    I just love this group…this family of ours

    Reply
  • 189. DK  |  August 3, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    Don’t know if this post will show–I’ve tried in the past and the post didn’t show up.
    Anyway…if this does post, I just wanted to say that I have followed this site since day 1 and feel like I know so many of you, like a wonderful and diverse and supportive family. As a straight supporter of equal rights for all, I am excited and admittedly nervous about tomorrow’s announcement which directly affects friends and co-workers (and really, affects all of us regardless of orientation/identification). I know tomorrow isn’t the final chapter but I HOPE HOPE HOPE it is a positive move forward for equal rights.
    DK in Connecticut (happy to say my current state of residence offers marriage equality…but as a native Californian can’t wait for my home state to regain that early leadership!)

    Reply
    • 190. Kathleen  |  August 3, 2010 at 11:41 pm

      Hi DK, nice of you to stop by and thanks for coming out of lurk mode! I agree – equality or lack of it affects us all. I’m hoping tomorrow we will witness take another giant step forward toward the goal of universal justice and equality for all.

      Reply

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