Who NOM is vs. who we are

August 10, 2010 at 7:18 am 118 comments

by Adam Bink

Over the course of this tour, we’ve had a lot of conversations here at NOMTourTracker.com about the remarkable contrasts between NOM and the supporters of equality. It’s hard to find a more compelling- and heart-wrenching- side-by-side contrasting example than this from Waking Up Now (h/t Pam’s House Blend):

Maggie and her cohorts do love to talk about marriage in the abstract as an institution. But I wonder if they know any same-sex couples who have to go through what Shirley and her family go through. In fact, I’d like to see Maggie or Brian view it. I wonder whether their reaction would be.

Stories like this are what will win the day for equality.

Entry filed under: NOM Tour Tracker, Right-wing.

Would you like to spend an hour with David Boies? NOM’s Brian Brown, the truth, and the distance between the two

118 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 10, 2010 at 7:20 am

    subscribing cause I gotta work today

    Reply
    • 2. Alan E.  |  August 10, 2010 at 7:48 am

      I need to work, too, but I always happen to find little breaks to read said emails.

      Reply
    • 3. ĶĭŗîļĺęΧҲΪ  |  August 10, 2010 at 7:51 am

      NEWS FROM RALEIGH — LIVE from Felyx and Papa Foma

      Felyx and Papa Foma are at the Raleigh NOM rally right now, with some other friends.

      NOM van just pulled up. There are 6 of equality supporters right now there. Cops are trying to move them to another location.

      — ♂KF

      Reply
      • 4. ĶĭŗîļĺęΧҲΪ  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:02 am

        NEWS FROM RALEIGH — LIVE from Felyx and Papa Foma

        I will also be twitting latest news on @KirilleXXI.

        — ♂KF

        Reply
      • 5. Ann S.  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:07 am

        Subscribing, and also following K&F on Twitter.

        Reply
      • 6. ElsieH  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:13 am

        Will be following you on twitter. Have a good time!

        Reply
      • 7. ElsieH  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:19 am

        I’m marmot3 over on twitter. I’ll be following you.

        Reply
      • 8. ĶĭŗîļĺęΧҲΪ  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:29 am

        NEWS FROM RALEIGH — LIVE from Felyx and Papa Foma

        UPDATE 11:25 EDT: No supporters for NOM detected as of yet. Already 50 equality supporters showed up at the counter-rally, among them there is a rabbi (my guess is it’s our very own Richard Walter), a minister, a spiritual director. Lot’s of straight allies among gay supporters. Local TV station WRAL is setting up cameras, taking videos of supporters (among them Felyx); they might broadcast the even live, maybe even online!

        — ♂KF

        Reply
      • 9. ĶĭŗîļĺęΧҲΪ  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:31 am

        NEWS FROM RALEIGH — LIVE from Felyx and Papa Foma

        Brian Brown is already there. Felyx gave him a “shit-eating grin.”

        — ♂KF

        Reply
      • 10. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:36 am

        Go Felyx and Papa Foma & everyone who fights to end Discrimination against the GLBT community!!!
        Can’t hardly wait for the details. You are doing us all proud!!

        Reply
      • 11. ĶĭŗîļĺęΧҲΪ  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:47 am

        NEWS FROM RALEIGH — LIVE from Felyx and Papa Foma

        UPDATE 11:45 EDT: 13 NOM supporters showed up at the rally; over 60 equality supporters are already counter-protesting.

        — ♂KF

        Reply
      • 12. Kathleen  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:57 am

        Go Felyx, Papa Foma and all our supporters in Raleigh.

        Reply
      • 13. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:09 am

        Say it slow and low, T-H-I-R-T-E-E-N People showed up for NOM’s dog and pony show in Raleigh NC. Pathetic, this is surely another
        #FAIL NOM Marraige Tour
        ROTFLMAO

        Reply
      • 14. ĶĭŗîļĺęΧҲΪ  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:27 am

        NEWS FROM RALEIGH — LIVE from Felyx and Papa Foma

        UPDATE 12:20 EDT: Felyx saw Louis Marinelly and told him, “Hi Louis!” He also met Arisha Michelle Hatch and invited her for lunch after the event. The rally is happening right now, lots of people showed up to support marriage equality.

        — ♂KF

        Reply
      • 15. ĶĭŗîļĺęΧҲΪ  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:49 am

        NEWS FROM RALEIGH — LIVE from Felyx and Papa Foma

        UPDATE 12:40 EDT: Rumor has it, at least 150 counter-protesters gathered to support marriage equality. One person on the NOM side holds a sign that says “Straight Pride” (the number of NOM supporters is still pathetically low, and the rally is almost over — talk about Bible Belt North Carolina). Every time a car passes by and honks in support of equality people cheer. It is very, very noisy out there right now, a lot of cheer and celebration on equality side.

        — ♂KF

        Reply
      • 16. Anonygrl  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:52 am

        SIX? Woot!

        Reply
      • 17. fiona64  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:53 am

        Heh. I told someone the other day, when they were screeching about “straight pride” in a newspaper forum, that “Straight Pride Day” was every day that they could hug and kiss their beloved in public without fear of ridicule, censure, assault or homicide.

        In other words … all the damn time.

        What a twit.

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
      • 18. fiona64  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:54 am

        PS: Following you. @SharonCathcart. Tweets are protected, and there is a problem (known to Twitter) with follow requests … hopefully it will be solved soon.

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
      • 19. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:55 am

        First posted pictures from Raleigh today.

        http://www.wral.com/news/state/image/8113603/?img_list=8113603,8113646&ref_id=8110046

        Reply
      • 20. ĶĭŗîļĺęΧҲΪ  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:12 am

        LBS, thanks for letting us know about pictures!
        I don’t see my Felyx there, though.
        He has a sign that our P8TTers would probably recognize!

        Reply
      • 21. ĶĭŗîļĺęΧҲΪ  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:18 am

        Rallies for, against gay marriage held in Raleigh

        RALEIGH, N.C. — A national group touring the country to show support for traditional marriage held a rally in downtown Raleigh Tuesday.

        A counter-rally to support laws permitting gay marriage was held across the street.

        The National Organization for Marriage gathered on the grounds of the State Capitol at noon. The event is one of more than 20 stops on the organization’s summer bus tour.

        North Carolina is the only Southeastern state that hasn’t approved a state constitutional amendment restricting marriage to between one man and one woman.

        The group Freedom to Marry led the counter-demonstration effort on Morgan Street between Fayetteville and Wilmington streets.

        Arguments have intensified since a federal judge last week struck down California’s voter-approved ban on same-sex marriages.

        — ♂KF

        Reply
      • 22. Felyx  |  August 10, 2010 at 1:08 pm

        Correction… Brian was the one who had the shit-eating grin… I am not saying that he eats the stuff though… but judging from what comes out…

        (I called home to a neighbor who relayed the message through skype to Russia who posted comments here… sorry for the mix-up.)

        Felyx

        Reply
    • 23. John  |  August 10, 2010 at 2:07 pm

      subscribing

      Reply
  • 24. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 10, 2010 at 7:25 am

    Will add more when we get home from the Raleigh meeting.

    Reply
    • 25. Anonygrl  |  August 10, 2010 at 7:39 am

      Have a great time Richard!

      Reply
    • 26. ElsieH  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:14 am

      Looking forward to your report. Have a successful rally!

      Reply
      • 27. ElsieH  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:17 am

        I’m marmot3 on twitter.

        Reply
      • 28. ElsieH  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:18 am

        rats this was meant for kirille

        Reply
    • 29. Dpeck  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:23 am

      Go get ’em, Richard ! : )

      Reply
    • 30. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:36 am

      Go get ’em Richard! You are representing ALL of us!!

      Reply
  • 31. AndrewPDX  |  August 10, 2010 at 7:27 am

    scribin… let’s see how little work I can get done today :)

    Love,
    Andrew

    Reply
    • 32. Dave in ME  |  August 10, 2010 at 7:29 am

      Yeah, I’m with you on that, AndrewPDX!

      Dave

      Reply
  • 33. Richard W. Fitch  |  August 10, 2010 at 7:33 am

    How much damage do we do to our cause by continuing to use the term “Same-Sex Marriage”? Having read much of Judge Walker’s ruling and watching interviews with Boies and Olsen, I am convinced we need to be steadfast in using the term “Marriage Equality” because that is really the core of the issue: Equal rights and protections under the Constitution for ALL citizens.

    Reply
    • 34. Evan  |  August 10, 2010 at 7:41 am

      YES, I agree 100%!

      Reply
      • 35. Dave in ME  |  August 10, 2010 at 7:53 am

        I agree. We don’t want something special, we want what everyone else has.

        That being said, I know a few members of our community who DO want something different. They see marriage as something that is broken and they want something better for our community. I am not sure I agree with that-that is not equal rights.

        Dave

        Reply
      • 36. AndrewPDX  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:31 am

        IMO, the current state of marriage is like a 1992 Honda.
        The paint is peeling, and that dent in the trunk just won’t ever come out. The crack in the windshield seems to get wider each year, and it looks like the muffler is starting to rust.
        But the engine still runs like a champ, gets great gas mileage, and the stereo rocks!
        It just needs a bit of work.

        And, in absolute contrast to Blankenhorn’s opinion, I strongly believe letting same-sex couples get married will actually help.
        We will be the ones to change the oil and rotate the tires. We will be the ones that will repair the rip in the seat and make it look better than new.

        No, we should not throw marriage on the junk heap… Just let us help fix it and it will get us all to our destination. Together.

        Love,
        Andrew

        (I was originally going to make the analogy to and old house in need of redecorating, but figured that was too stereotypical)

        Reply
    • 37. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:02 am

      Okay okay. However I think an alternate and stronger word that could be used is Discrimination. Judge Walker used the word Discriminate or Discrimination 59 times in a 138 page verdict. He used the word Equal or Equality 38 times and then again directly referring to the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment 22 times.

      It is only my opinion but I think the words Orientation Discrimination put the onus where it belongs, on the people practicing the Discrimination. In other words, “You need to stop Discriminating” Also it squarely aligns our cause with the African American Civil Rights movement, which was successful, their mantra being, “End Discrimination.” Their mantra was not “Give us Equality, it was end Discrimination”

      I think Discrimination is a stronger word than Equality. Of course we are all for “Equality” but it is not US that is preventing it, it is the people who ARE DOING the Discriminating, that is preventing full Equality.

      Reply
      • 38. Kathleen  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:40 am

        Maggie has said repeatedly that she acknowledges this is discrimination. One of her (and other opponents’) frequent talking points is that there is nothing wrong with treating different things differently.

        I agree that what we experience is discrimination. In fact, unlike Maggie, I believe we experience unlawful discrimination and Judge Walker has confirmed that opinion. But I’m not sure that focusing on using the word discrimination is going to gain any traction with people who don’t agree because it’s easy to buy into Maggie’s spin that’s it’s justifiable discrimination.

        As a rallying cry, I think equality works better for several reasons. It’s generally better to focus on what you want, rather than what you don’t want.

        Also,the message we deliver in some ways drives the message our opponents deliver. Have you ever heard Maggie or Brian come right out and say, “But they’re not equal.” Maybe they have, but I haven’t heard it.

        Saying two people aren’t equal carries an unavoidable message that one is better than the other. Saying that people are “different” (and that discrimination is just treating different people differently) doesn’t carry as strong an implication. We all know what they really mean–that they are better than us and thus deserve protection we don’t–but they aren’t likely to come out and say it that strongly. After all, that would PROVE what Walker said in his ruling.

        Besides, “Equality” is easier to write on a sign than “No discrimination” :),

        That’s not to suggest that we avoid talking about the fact that this is unlawful discrimination, nor that we shouldn’t be pointing out, at every opportunity, the real harm this discrimination inflicts on real people. I’m just saying that I think our message is stronger when we focus on equality.

        Reply
      • 39. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:58 am

        Kathleen- “Besides, “Equality” is easier to write on a sign than “No discrimination” :), ”
        LOL!
        I don’t recall Maggie Gallagher acknowlege that this is discrimination, really?? That just kind of blows me away, that she acknowledges it.

        I carefully read and re-read what you wrote and it does have merit. However the historical reference to the word Discrimination is greater than for the word Equality. I think more of the Movable Middle will relate to the word Discrimination than will relate to Equality, but that is only my unscientific opinion.

        Discrimination brings a viceral response to straight people that i don’t think (operative word being think) Equality does. Especially amoung African Americans. For sure Equality is nowdays the more popular word, I’m just saying we should pick up on and use Discrimination again since it is in the verdict and it is a strong word. Equality may be a strong word to US, but to the Movable Middle I personally think Discrimination is the stronger word, although longer to put on a sign :)

        Reply
      • 40. Alan E.  |  August 10, 2010 at 11:25 am

        Judge Walker said in his ruling, and many studies have been proving it like the ones presented as evidence, that a same-sex couple is practically indistinguishable from an opposite-sex couple, save for sexual intercourse that specifically leads to procreation. The major factor, though, is that the state has never discriminated because of procreative ability.

        Reply
      • 41. Svendawg  |  August 10, 2010 at 1:19 pm

        Both you ladies have a great point of view and I’m really happy that we have such well educated and thoughtful people on our side….”equal discrimination for all” :P

        Reply
    • 42. VoiceOf Concern  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:15 am

      Gender Neutral Marriage is the term I prefer. It goes to the issue at hand, as well as being inclusive to trans & intersex folks.

      Reply
      • 43. Franck  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:18 am

        VoiceOf Concern, I agree with preferably using that term whenever just “marriage” won’t do. Sorry but when I hear “same-sex marriage”, I always hear “sex.” I don’t intend to stay celibate for the life of me, but I don’t want the word “sex” to describe my relationship.

        Same goes for “homosexual”. A contact of mine once suggested “homoaffectionate” instead.

        – Franck P. Rabeson
        Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1145 days, as of today.

        Reply
      • 44. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:46 am

        VoiceOfConcern, I LIKE your term, Gender Neutral Marriage. I think I am going to start using it from now on. Me too I hate that always the word sex is brought into it when saying SSM or OS Marriage. I also like particularly the word “Neutral”. It is a very non threatning.

        Reply
      • 45. Chad  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:27 am

        Why does it have to be “same-sex marriage” or “marriage equality” or “gender neutral marriage’? I just want the freedom to marry. Doesn’t using any adjective simply emphasize that particular marriage as being something different?

        Reply
      • 46. John  |  August 10, 2010 at 2:13 pm

        Chad wrote: “Why does it have to be “same-sex marriage” or “marriage equality” or “gender neutral marriage’? I just want the freedom to marry. Doesn’t using any adjective simply emphasize that particular marriage as being something different?”

        That’s what I was trying to say in my comment of 2:06 pm, but you stated it in a much more straightforward and simple way. Thanks

        Reply
    • 47. RebeccaRGB  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:38 am

      THIS. So much THIS.

      Reply
    • 48. John  |  August 10, 2010 at 2:06 pm

      I agree, but I even find the term Marriage Equality inaccurate and not very useful. It is abstract, and sounds like a newly added feature. Perhaps only to me(?). This is about marriage and being able to marry, nothing more, nothing less. We gays and lesbians don’t want marriage equality – as if we already have marriage, but an unequal one – we want (to be able) to marry, and marriage, or to be able to marry just like everyone else makes _us_ equal. It is about being included, not excluded. To phrase it this way might make it more concrete, personal and matter of fact.

      Reply
  • 49. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  August 10, 2010 at 7:41 am

    Me and my partner face the daily fear described by the family in the video. It really sucks :( We are denied insurance benefits, my partner is unable to work, even though he is a brilliant sociologist with advanced education. My children are confused what the relationship is with my partner…I tried to explain its “like” marriage, but my 9-yr old son still not sure …

    My heart goes out to all families like Tam/Mercado. Best of everything! Here’s to achieving equality of marriage!

    Reply
    • 50. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:06 am

      Gregory in SLC, well an idea is that you have a marriage ceremony like both my son and daughter did even though it was not oficially recognized by the state. It was still a wedding and all their family and friends came and celebrated and our children exchanged thier vows with their spouces, both times having a minister perform the ceremony. We had a “Wedding” after which we all considered them married.

      Reply
      • 51. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:09 am

        Good idea SG :) Love 2 you!

        Reply
    • 52. Kathleen  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:51 am

      Here’s the problem. You can have a ceremony; you can even refer to yourself as married to your son and anyone else you care to.

      But when your son tells his friend that his dad is married (to your partner) and the friend says “No, he’s not. Two men can’t get married,” instead of your son being able to correct that friend’s misunderstanding, the friend is right. And the message is loud and clear: No matter what you do, the state doesn’t recognize you as married and by not doing so, says that your relationship is less valuable than those the state recognizes.

      Reply
      • 53. Kathleen  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:54 am

        That was meant to say you can tell your son that you’re married – not that you’re married to your son.

        I don’t usually bother to come back in and correct typos and grammatical or structural gaffs in my comments, but that one was a doosie. :)

        Reply
      • 54. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  August 10, 2010 at 11:19 am

        thank you Kathleen for articulating more about this….

        I agree completely. What does a kid say when to peer pressure and when family bias arise? This great kid tells me in so many ways that my choice doesn’t matter that he just loves me and loves having a dad.

        My partner and I are taking my son to California on a trip in October. Hoping Hoping Hoping we can marry with my son as a witness…. still could be hard for him at school when friends have been socialized otherwise but at least he could say I really was married.

        I really love the hour long post with David Boies with commonwealth club. His dialogue gives me information I can share with children and others. One powerful thing he states is with many cases an attorney can argue both sides….with prop 8 this is not the case, there is only one side (and he explains why this is so).

        This video, along with your insightful research and educated comments and information from others on this website, give me real information I can share with children…not just emotion. Bless you Kathleen and all you good people!

        Reply
      • 55. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 1:14 pm

        I think when you have a Wedding and your son participates and is there, and you say your vows before family and friends and have a reception, no matter what anyone else tells him, your son will always know in his heart and in his mind that you ARE married. I think he will dismiss the “not Legal” aspect if ever approached, just as I do towards my daughters marriage What will matter to your son is that before him, your family and friends, you got married, he saw it. It will always always be a real marriage to him, and also to you of course. I think no matter what any other kids tell him, he will not care, because he knows you are married.

        When both our children married, neither marriage was state sanctioned. It really didn’t matter to everyone who was there or ones who were not able to attend but shared in the wedding pics, whether the state sanctioned this or not. I consider both my children married on their wedding day. Of course I was thrilled when DC passed SSM and our son legally married a year later, but I always consider the day of his church wedding as his true marriage date. The day of their family wedding that is the day I consider them married.

        Reply
  • 56. Anonygrl  |  August 10, 2010 at 7:41 am

    Sadly, what Brian and Maggie will say, what they HAVE said is “if there is a problem with benefits and such, let that be fixed on a local level. We do not need to mess with marriage for that.”

    Which is, of course, nonsense.

    Reply
  • 57. Dave in ME  |  August 10, 2010 at 7:48 am

    I just watched this clip and I have a couple of questions. I am not sure about mixing the immigration issue in with this right now. I am not sure that many Americans will have have a lot of sympathy for a non-American trying to live here. Don’t get me wrong-*I* get it, but with the anti-immigrant sentiment that seems to be gaining speed here, I wonder how this particular comparison will be seen.

    One thing I’d like to know is-how easy would it be for this lady if she were to have built a family with an American man? I don’t know anything about immigration laws, but would a marriage recognized by the federal government made all these problems go away instantly? Does it depend on the country from which the applicant has come? I seem to remember that there are lots of hoops that the family has to go through to make it so that the applicant can reside here legally, even with marriage.

    What is the current status of the Filipina lady?

    Dave in Maine

    Reply
    • 58. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:13 am

      Dave in ME I think I gotta agree with you on this one. I had not thought about it that way until you brought it up. I know how I felt watching it, I felt very sad for the lesbians and thier children. But I think you raise a pertinent point, mixing in the Immigration issue with NOM doesn’t make sense, NOM is not making an issue of immigration. Now if they used the same scenes and cut it back and forth with a foreign woman who first gets a fianceee Visa and then is granted a Green card after she marries and American man, I guess that would make more sense.

      Reply
      • 59. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:35 am

        Dave and SG –
        It may not be popular sentiment right now, but it is acutely/painfully unfair and something that straight couples take for granted.
        Two recent family examples:
        1) Last year my niece met a lovely man from Peru and got married in U.S. within 1 year he is working and by virtue of marriage on a path to citizenship. He literally has no other family in the United States.
        2) my Partner’s niece met a Scottish man on the Internet about 1 yr ago. He moved here on temp visa, got married and now is able to work, again he has no other family outside of Scotland.

        My partner came with family 15 years ago when an American company invited his Father here because of his expertise. His parents and all family, those who married opposite sex partners are all citizens. He is a gay male, was legally an adult (age 18) when family came to U.S. but even today he cannot even claim permanent residence. If we had equality in marriage at the Federal level none of this would be an issue.

        If find the comparison to Filipino family being torn apart is one of the most blatant discrimination effects of not allowing LGBT to marry and completely relevant.

        SIGH…***taking a deep breathe**

        All I can say its great to have some good news in the courts and looking forward to rapid progress for all of us!

        Love and Light to all!

        Reply
      • 60. Dave in ME  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:49 am

        Hi Gregory!

        Of course it’s unfair and yet another example of a right that straight people take for granted. I am sure SG agrees with me in that it is very important issue in our struggle for equality.

        However, looking at the big picture, including the recent events in Arizona, I am just wondering about using THIS particular story to show the country the difference between us and NOM. I think most of the Americans on the fence would identify better with another example.

        Thank you for the examples of the straight couples marrying foreigners. Living here in Maine I don’t really know too many foreigners anymore. I think I might have been thinking about how difficult it was for my brother who was in the navy while trying to marry a Filipena.

        Dave in Maine

        Reply
      • 61. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:51 am

        tx for reply Dave :)

        Reply
      • 62. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:17 am

        Gregory, as I have said on previous threads, Legal Same Sex Marriage will benefit some people more than others. I have taken to calling this “People with Special Needs” You and your partner are definitely a Special Needs Couple. You and your partner will benefit tremendously, more than many others, from legal SSM, even as today you are hurt more because of the lack thereof. I wish it were here already, my heart truly and deeply feels your pain.

        Reply
      • 63. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:03 am

        thanks SG you are truly one of my Heroes :)

        Reply
    • 64. Sagesse  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:11 am

      When I saw this earlier today, I didn’t post it because the message, while completely valid, felt somehow ‘off’.

      This is an ad for passing the Unite American Families Act (UAFA) separate from comprehensive immigration reform. Even if marriage equality were achieved today, this family’s problems would remain under DOMA and immigration law.

      These messages, it seems to me, are stronger delivered separately.

      Reply
    • 65. adambink  |  August 10, 2010 at 11:12 am

      I think that would be falling in for what NOM would say- “this is about immigration”. In reality, if these couples could be married under federal law absent DOMA, this isn’t an immigration issue.

      The reason this is a marriage issue is because over the over 1,000 federal benefits ascribed to marriage. So it is a marriage issue.

      Reply
  • 66. AndrewPDX  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:00 am

    Ugh… Maggie makes me sick. “the only reason they have is equality.”
    A) no, it’s not the only reason,
    B) isn’t that a worthwhile enough reason on its own?

    And what is NOM’s only reason? Fear.

    I was just a small kid during the whole Anita Bryant fiasco, and my parents apparently did a good job of shielding us from her brand of hate as I don’t remember any of it. From what I’ve read and the clips I’ve seen, I have to wonder if Maggie et al aren’t worse.

    Maybe we should do a side by side comparison of Anita and Maggie. Then, to balance out the hate, a caparison of a functional normal same-sex-led household and the Cleaveresque household.

    Love (I gotta keep repeating that to myself, lest I start believing Maggie’s perverted definition of the word),
    Andrew

    Reply
    • 67. Anonygrl  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:05 am

      I agree on the Maggie/Anita side by side comparison, but with one caveat, Andrew.

      Please don’t make us listen to Maggie sing.

      Thanks.

      :P

      Reply
      • 68. AndrewPDX  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:42 am

        ROFL!!! thank you anonygrl for the laugh :). You never know, maybe Mags has a good singing voice (doubt it, and I’m not willing to test and find out).

        Love,
        Andrew

        Reply
    • 69. Kathleen  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:50 am

      That isn’t Maggie saying “all they have is equality” – it’s one of their invited speakers, not sure which. And I agree wanting equality is reason enough. :)

      Reply
    • 70. Steve  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:48 am

      Someone needs to throw a pie in her face

      Reply
  • 71. Ronnie  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:03 am

    I’m convinced that Maggie “Shoe Flinger” Gallagher & Brainless Brown Suit don’t read the studies or watch the interviews with committed same-gender couples &/or families. They mock those who carry signs saying how many years they’ve been together (often longer then most heterosexual couples). Louis definitely does that that deplorable, immature, & (JEALOUS MUCH LOUIS?) insulting mockery. But if they do look at these couples & families and it does nothing to them….then their souls are 100% black & their hearts 100% empty. The Grinch miracle would NEVER work on them. They are a lost cause…. : ( …..Ronnie

    Reply
    • 72. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:19 am

      …Maggie “Shoe Flinger” Gallagher & Brainless Brown Suit … “Shoe Flinger” gave me a good belly laugh, you are so funny.

      Reply
  • 73. Alan E.  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:25 am

    I posted this link in a previous post, but it is worth reposting. Americans for Truth About Homosexuality (AFTAH) just held a “Truth Academy” in Chicago. Hemant Mehta, the owner of this blog, managed to get a couple spies in to report on the events and speakers. This is exactly who we have to fight against! This is only part one of three, but it is already enough to make your head spin. Read through this and you will certainly see some familiar names. Much of the same information uses the same information that NOM uses.

    http://friendlyatheist.com/2010/08/10/the-aftah-anti-gay-rights-academy-from-the-perspective-of-two-who-attended-day-1-of-3/

    Reply
    • 74. Alan E.  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:32 am

      I posted this over at the other blog, too.

      I wonder if they use 1862 because of Abe Lincoln. The gays were the hidden force behind the War of Northern Aggression and WW2 (and who knows how many if not all of the wars in the past?!) They are violent, of course, and according to that guy interviewed on the Daily Show, have no inhibitions at all. Perfect war machines. Did you also know that the buff guys in the window at the gym are secret gay military recruiters?

      Reply
      • 75. Dave in ME  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:43 am

        It’s amazing that there are whole organizations devoted to attacking us, bringing us down, and putting us back in the closet or worse. Would a similar organization devoted to doing the same for women, people of a particular religion, or people or a particular race would be allowed to exist, much less hold conferences like this? This is abhorrent.

        On another note, tell me more about those recruiters…!

        Dave

        Reply
      • 76. Anonygrl  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:18 am

        Dave,

        They ARE allowed to exist… the KKK, and Fred Phelps, for instance, but they are wildly unpopular because of what they are and what they do. The problem is, what they do is what these other groups do, they are just more above board about it.

        I think we need to keep explaining that what these “Christian” organizations who “hate the sinner but love the sin because it increases their revenues” (oopsie… did I get that wrong?)do is precisely what the KKK does only with a thicker coating of self-righteous biblical misinterpretation smeared over it. I say thicker, because KKK members too believe the bible is on their side.

        Reply
      • 77. Kathleen  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:56 am

        I just wanted to make the comment that it’s unproductive to ask organizations like NOM whether they believe in the message of Fred Phelps’s crowd. Almost NO ONE will claim agreement, especially if they’re trying to sway the populace. As I’ve pointed out before, even the Klan disavows the actions of the WBC.

        Reply
    • 78. rf  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:54 am

      Just wanted to say I did read this after you posted it on the other page and second that its worth taking a look at. its well written and easy to read but also easily skimmable if it makes you sick.

      the thing that struck me was how underground the whole thing seems. I mean the whole country was generally on their side 10 years ago. and now not only is this thing by super secret invite but also they come up with comments like this:

      “LaBarbera kicked off his welcome speech with an anecdote about how AFTAH had been ejected from more hotels than they’ve actually held conventions in, and yet somehow people accused them of being the hateful ones”

      They have really become the KKK.

      Reply
    • 79. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:28 am

      AlanE, I went to the link the last time you posted this and was appalled. Thank goodness that there are GLBT protesters to fight the Discrimination this wiced group is indoctrinating into the youth. In a minute I’ll go read the next part. I particularly was touched by the video of the young woman who used to go to school there, she is BI, and she talked about what harm she received because of it.

      PROPS to all the protestors!!!!!!!!!!
      Thanks for posting this I never would have been aware if not for you.

      Reply
  • 80. Bolt  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:26 am

    Sorry to be negative, but Maggie G. and Brian B. and the NOMarriage Klan are a bunch of assholes. They raise millions of dollars at our peril, and they won’t give it up. If marriage equality under the law will crush their careers, we’re making strides, but California isn’t enough. We can’t allow these pious bigots to treat everyone else like this outside of California.

    How can we facilitate legal marriage equality without spending a gazillion dollars doing it?

    Reply
    • 81. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:19 am

      The Courts, the courts, the courts, that is how we will win.

      Reply
  • 82. JT1962  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:28 am

    This is a case where a family is being torn apart because the federal government refuses to acknowledge that they are a family. I read their case in depth just a few minutes ago. She was shot in the head, which is why she returned to the US and filed for asylum. It was denied and the deportation order was filed in 2002. Her own lawyer didn’t even tell her about the order. And just to show how great the background checks really are, in 2005 she toured the White House after one and it failed to show that there was a deportation order for her! If she was a heterosexual, she could marry her partner and get a green card. But because she’s a lesbian, even with a domestic partner registration, there is no government recognition of that union and she can be deported. It’s squarely a marriage situation.

    It’s just one more instance where gays are second class citizens and one more time where it’s WRONG!

    Reply
    • 83. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:16 am

      thank you for more information about this!

      Reply
  • 84. JayeinMD  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:46 am

    I can tell you what Maggie’s response would be to the question, “What are families such as these supposed to do?”

    Magster would reply, “I don’t know.”

    There was a debate sometime ago with Maggie and Andrew Sullivan concerning will the Republican Party/Conservative Movement ever accept gays, as they are now in England?

    During the Q&A session, a man stood up, identified himself as gay and that he and his partner have adopted children. He asked Maggie what he should do since his political beliefs were in line with “conservatism” but he felt ostracized by those on the right. “What should I do?” Maggie said, “I don’t know.”

    That’s right. There is NO room for gay people, families in Maggie and NOM’s world. And ultimately that’s what NOM is about — raising a ton of money to demonize homosexuality. Remember: culture wars are very profitable for organizations like NOM and they also create a diversion for the right wingers to actually govern responsibly.

    Reply
    • 85. AndrewPDX  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:15 am

      There is NO room for gay people, families in Maggie and NOM’s world. And ultimately that’s what NOM is about — raising a ton of money to demonize homosexuality.

      Exactly. There are laws in some states banning LGBT from adopting or serving as foster parents. There are some states that have removed housing and employment fairness from LGBT citizens. While NOM claims to only care about marriage, their money comes from those that support all these other anti-gay laws.

      If NOM were to win a us constitution ban on equality, I am 100% certain that they will continue persecuting us, removing our children from us, destroying our very lives — “to protect the children”.

      I’m feeling more French, maybe even more Revolutionary (and hopefully not so Reign-of-Terror-esque), so:

      Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité,
      Andrew

      Reply
      • 86. fiona64  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:37 am

        Le jour de gloire et arrive!

        Merci a Judge Vaughn R. Walker!

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
  • 87. rf  |  August 10, 2010 at 8:59 am

    Forget marriage equality for same sex couples, Maggie Srivastav is bigotted against interracial marriage. She won’t even acknowledge the one in her own household.

    Reply
  • 88. Franck  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:14 am

    These people make me sick with their bigotry and myopia. The Founding Fathers never intended to create gay marriage? Neither did they plan to have gender and race equality as far as I know.

    Republicans Push Disapproval Measure Aimed at Gay Marriage Ruling
    Aug. 10, 2010, 10:48 a.m.
    By Jackie Kucinich
    Roll Call Staff

    A group of House Republicans introduced a resolution of disapproval Tuesday regarding a California judge’s recent decision to reverse the state’s ban on gay marriage.

    Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas) said Judge Vaughn Walker’s ruling that overturned the 2008 ban was an example of “judicial overreach” and unfair to California voters.

    Smith, the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee, said it was “inconceivable” that the Founding Fathers “ever intended to create a same sex marriage.”

    “It is not about the worth of gay individuals,” Smith said, adding that the objection to the ruling was not rooted in his belief in traditional marriage between a man and a woman.

    Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) called Walker’s decision “irrational” and predicted the issue would end up in the Supreme Court.

    Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) expressed concern that the judge could overturn a law that was voted on by hundreds of thousands of people.

    “I think it is the issue of judicial activism that is setting people off,” she said. “This is just the latest example.”

    Smith said that he had yet to talk to Republican leadership about the resolution but he would ask them to sign on. The measure had 15 co-sponsors as of press time.

    – Franck P. Rabeson
    Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1145 days, as of today.

    Reply
    • 89. Dave in ME  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:26 am

      Is this less government involvement I hear so much about from the right?

      Dave in Maine

      Reply
    • 90. fiona64  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:28 am

      Okay, it’s *really* sad when our elected officials don’t understand how the government works …

      Love,
      Fiona

      Reply
      • 91. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:33 am

        True Fiona, sadly true…
        OR they do know, and they choose to lie and distort.

        Reply
      • 92. Anonygrl  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:43 am

        Sadder still that they know EXACTLY how it works.

        It works like this. A group of Republicans put together a “resolution of disapproval” (which really means NOTHING in the long run… it says “we don’t LIKE it” but as I understand holds no legal weight at all). It will get just enough support that right wingers can take it back to their constituancy and wave it around saying “LOOK! See! We tried to do what you want us to do!” but not enough that it will ever come to the floor where in open debate the Democrats could laugh them off the floor and school them in basic government.

        The Republicans get their rocks off by stirring up more controversy before an election, and it disappears rather quickly when it turns out, in the long run, the JUDGE WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG.

        That is how it works.

        Reply
      • 93. Kathleen  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:00 am

        Anonygirl, you clearly understand exactly how it works.

        Reply
    • 94. Bolt  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:55 am

      Big fuck you to all of these republicans, and their bigot supporters!

      Reply
  • 95. phillykarl  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:26 am

    Most traditional marriages end up being “No Sex” marriages. Do we need a special category for them?

    Reply
  • 96. TPAKyle  |  August 10, 2010 at 9:55 am

    This just in from the NOM Rally in Raleigh… Pro-marriage equality folks outnumber NOM bigots 4 to 1!

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/08/10/622707/gay-marriage-rallies-face-off.html

    No surprise there… another win for marriage equality!

    Reply
    • 97. Kathleen  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:01 am

      YAY!!! Looking forward to pictures!!

      Reply
  • 98. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:23 am

    In case you need a little laugh this morning…

    Reply
    • 99. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:30 am

      Yeah GOOD Laugh, ha-ha-ha. How do you find this stuff????

      Reply
      • 100. JC  |  August 10, 2010 at 11:21 am

        Thank you! It’s truly amazing how therapeutic laughter is. Just when the pressure was building up in my head after scanning the NOM stuff, I see this. Thank you VERY much.

        Reply
    • 101. Matt  |  August 10, 2010 at 3:43 pm

      That was awesome! Maybe Brian’s problem is he drank too many fizzy lifting drinks.

      Reply
  • 102. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:33 am

    So sweet…

    Little 7-year-old Hannah wants her mommies to get married.

    Read here: http://www.beaconbroadside.com/broadside/2010/08/prop-8-and-the-seven-year-old.html

    Reply
    • 103. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:50 am

      Oh…My…God…
      Children of same sex parents really do want their parents to be legally married, look at 7 year old Hannah. This story smacked me with a 2 x 4 as my daughter who is a lesbian has children, although by Virginia law she will never be the legal parent UNLESS Gender Neutral Marriage is the law of the land.

      It’s the children, it’s the children, it’s our children who carry a burden they should not have to. This was a very poignant story to me, very very poignant. This is what pisses me off SO MUCH about NOM, that they deny little Hanna to have her parents get married, how very very sad.

      Reply
  • 104. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Another picture is up…and another article…not much meat to the article though.

    http://wake.mync.com/site/Wake/news/story/54235/rallies-for-against-gay-marriage-planned-for-nc/

    Reply
  • 105. Straight Grandmother  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:39 am

    I wonder if we will get any information on the Stay today? It is really a PIA that this is on the west coast. I have a clock set up on my background that shows east coast time witch is a nice and easy 6 hour difference, jsut look straight across the clock and see the time on the east coast. But for this case I find myself time and time again going backwards, “Okay 6 hours difference on east coast, 7 hour difference in Chicago, 8 hour difference in Colorado, 9 hour difference in Califronia. Then I have to count back the hours on my clock. East coast time is easy peasy for me, west coast time makes me work for it.

    I wonder if there will be any movement in the case today.
    Also hoping we see a seperate topic on the NOM Raleigh NC rally, and our counter protest soon.

    Reply
    • 106. Kathleen  |  August 10, 2010 at 11:02 am

      SG, You might find this easier for computing the time difference…

      ADD 3 hours, then jump BACK 12 hours. EX: If it’s 4pm your time, add 3 hours = 7pm, back 12 = 7am.

      This method takes advantage of the fact that it’s easier to add than subtract, and going back 12 hours doesn’t require computation.

      I use a variation on this to compute the time difference between me and my family in England.

      Reply
  • 107. Sheryl Carver  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:44 am

    Does anyone know what BB & MG did to earn a living before they became professional anti-equality NOMers?

    Would love to see some media coverage on how much they are earning as NOMers (which is how much?), focusing on how their current livelihoods will disappear once the whole Equality issue is finally settled.

    Unfortunately, even if the Prop 8 & other rulings eventually go to SCOTUS & Equal Rights are upheld for the entire country, the NOMers will still have several years of morally bankrupt income.

    Reply
    • 108. Kathleen  |  August 10, 2010 at 11:05 am

      I think I read somewhere that Brian devoted himself to blocking condom distribution–you know, making sure people procreate and increase the likelihood of spreading disease when they do. :)

      Reply
      • 109. Sheryl Carver  |  August 10, 2010 at 11:15 am

        Thanks, Kathleen.

        Why am I not surprised? Clearly, when science/facts & religious beliefs conflict, people like Brian never hesitate to come down on the side of religion. No matter how much harm they cause others.

        Reply
      • 110. Sagesse  |  August 10, 2010 at 11:31 am

        Spitting coffee all over my keyboard. At least now he’s picking on adults who can protect themselves. Let’s mess up the lives of adolescents in the name of God.

        Reply
      • 111. Kathleen  |  August 10, 2010 at 11:40 am

        Sheryl, 6th graph, this page:
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/27/AR2009082704139_3.html

        Reply
      • 112. Sheryl Carver  |  August 10, 2010 at 3:09 pm

        I saw the link to the Post article earlier today. Couldn’t make it past the 1st paragraph. However, with your pointer, Kathleen, I skipped to #6. That explains so much about BB.

        I was raised Catholic, but quit attending church as a teenager, as I realized more & more that their dogma was crap. (Didn’t handle implementing that decision very well – you can imagine the parents’ reaction.)

        I despise the Catholic Cult. Please note – I do NOT feel anything but sympathy for its non-ruling members. However, as an institution I find the evil it has & continues to cause far outweighs the good works done by some.

        Reply
    • 113. Sheryl Carver  |  August 10, 2010 at 11:10 am

      Ah, just sort of answered one of my questions:

      – Maggie Gallaher, IRS filing 2006, $125,000
      – Brian Brown, IRS filing 2006 (or 7), $57,292

      The above came from another site, which usually has accurate information. However, I make no personal claims to the validity of the data, as I have no way to check it.

      Reply
  • 114. Sagesse  |  August 10, 2010 at 10:47 am

    Haven’t tried to embed in a while… New web ad for DADT repeal.

    Reply
  • 115. Alexa Valavanis  |  August 10, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Just felt like sharing.
    http://www.chicosol.org

    What’s In a Name?

    Reply
    • 116. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 10, 2010 at 12:57 pm

      That is simply beautiful.

      Reply
  • 117. Mouse  |  August 10, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Maybe NOM would get more people showing up if they handed out freebies.

    I would like to take up a collection for new white flat sheets, and single white pillow cases, to be distributed free to NOM event attendees.

    Reply
  • 118. Peter  |  August 10, 2010 at 11:23 pm

    Like many commenters, my situation echoes the importance of legislation that will allow same-sex couples the right to marry and to sponsor their partners. It’s been almost two months since I migrated Spain to be with the man I plan to marry this winter.

    As much of inconvenience as it’s been at times, I’m happy knowing that our situation is affecting everyone who knows us. It’s really hard for the opposing side to argue against our cases, and many people who were on the fence about the issue before now realize how important it is to grant equality to every individual.

    Reply

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