Frustration at Prop 8 rulings boiling over

August 20, 2010 at 7:15 am 330 comments

by Adam Bink

Karen Ocamb of Frontiers IN LA and LGBTPOV.com wrote in a piece here last week about the roller coaster of emotions with Walker’s ruling, then the stay, then the stay set to be lifted, then remaining in place courtesy of the 9th Circuit:

What I’m angry about, frankly, is how in both the Prop 8 ruling and in Walker’s “Solomonic” motion lifting the stay he talks about how Prop 8 harmed gay couples. But suddenly, with the temporary stay, the issue of “harm,” indeed of “irreparable harm” shifts to the Prop 8 proponents and “harm” to gays evaporates.

I was struck by this during a radio interview with Warren Olney on KCRW. My job as the LGBT guest was to describe the emotional reaction to the stay. Most mainstream LGBTs applauded Walker’s ruling because of the larger point about denying the Prop 8 proponents their motion to stay his ruling permanently. I concurred that this was a big deal – but then laughed at the irony that it was the Prop 8 backers who were now so worried about the potential “harm” done to same sex couples if they were allowed to marry. But then I described how real harm was just done to the hurt and disappointed couples who wanted to marry immediately but were suddenly told to wait six-days.

[…]

Like being bullied, these same sex couples who lined up to get married will never forget experiencing absolute joy one minute and near despondency the next. That is “irreparable harm” done knowingly, in the name of expediency, against gays and lesbians who must once again endure what even some LGBTs think is merely benign discrimination. Six days. It’s just a matter of time.

Perhaps I’m angry because I’m keenly aware that time is running out for me to be free and equal.

In the comment’s on last night’s piece, Straight Grandmother points us to those emotions becoming a flashpoint yesterday in San Diego. From the San Diego Gay and Lesbian News:

At a time when the County of San Diego is plagued with fiscal challenges, more than 50 sheriff’s deputies, many dressed in full riot gear, were deployed to the County Assessor/Recorder/County Clerk Office downtown, to disperse nine peaceful protesters.

The controversy began promptly at 8 a.m. on the second floor, where marriage licenses are issued.

Tony and Tyler Dylan-Hyde, the local couple who had scored the first appointment to get a marriage license this morning before the appeals court issued a stay that halts gay wedding until at least December, arrived dressed in suits and ties to honor their 8 a.m. appointment.

At that time, about 10 deputies were on duty, dressed in their regular uniforms, asking the roughly 30 people gathered by the door to keep the hallway clear.

Flanked by media cameras, the Dylan-Hydes were kindly stopped before they could enter the office. A spokeswomen for the county informed them that unfortunately, due to the law changes, their appointment has been canceled.

Tyler, who is an attorney, informed the spokeswoman that they did not agree with the Ninth District Court of Appeal’s decision to stay gay marriages, and that they both felt Judge Vaughn Walker’s ruling, as well as the statements issued by California’s Governor and Attorney General, should be enough for county officials to issue marriage licenses.

The spokeswoman said she understood their opinion but that as long as the stay was in place, there was nothing she could do and that she has to follow the law.

Eventually, after the County Clerk himself turned the couple down, about half a dozen people each started blocking both the main and side entrance, and riot police with tear gas were called in to arrest the demonstrators. One activist, Sally Hall, recorded the scene:

While no doubt much of this is planned to raise awareness, I don’t doubt that some people were there not as activists but as LGBT community members out of frustration at this emotional roller coaster ride. One thing I’ve found as the wait for equality grows is how many people I am normally surprised to see with signs at demonstrations has grown as more and more people start to feel the frustration of having your right to marry voted upon or judged in a courtroom.

It’ll only continue to grow.

Entry filed under: Community/Meta, Videos.

Another day, another head-shaking Saunders column on Prop 8 Prop 8 Trial Tracker looking for some great new writers: Now taking nominations and applications

330 Comments Add your own

  • 1. AndrewPDX  |  August 20, 2010 at 7:21 am

    ‘scribin’

    Reply
    • 2. Meagan  |  August 20, 2010 at 7:23 am

      Ditto.

      Reply
    • 3. Alan E.  |  August 20, 2010 at 7:44 am

      Me too!

      Reply
      • 4. Dave in ME  |  August 21, 2010 at 6:31 am

        I’m late!

        Dave in Maine

        Reply
    • 5. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 20, 2010 at 8:50 am

      Accepting the invitation to the Scribe party!

      Reply
    • 7. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 8:51 am

      scribe me, sub me, hoagie me, po’boy me, all of the above, please.

      Reply
    • 8. JonT  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:34 pm

      late scribe.

      Reply
  • 9. the other jc  |  August 20, 2010 at 7:22 am

    this article is delightful in its possibilities:

    Prop 8 Plaintiffs May Seek Reimbursement of Legal Fees

    http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/08/19/25572

    Reply
    • 10. Dave in ME  |  August 21, 2010 at 6:37 am

      That must be referring to all the emails I’ve been getting from the court server that say: “Statement of Non-Opposition to Plaintiffs’ and Plaintiff-Intervenor’s Motions re Timing of Application for Attorney Fees and Costs filed byMark B. Horton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Linette Scott. (Mennemeier, Kenneth) (Filed on 8/19/2010),” “MOTION for Extension of Time to File A Bill of Costs filed by City and County of San Francisco, Paul T. Katami, Kristin M. Perry, Sandra B. Stier, Jeffrey J. Zarrillo. (Attachments: # (1) Affidavit of Enrique A. Monagas, # (2) Proposed Order)(Monagas, Enrique) (Filed on 8/20/2010),” and “Statement of Non-Opposition to Plaintiffs’ and Plaintiff-Intervenors’ Motions re Timing of Application for Attorneys Fees and Costs filed byEdmund G. Brown, Jr. (Pachter, Tamar) (Filed on 8/18/2010).”

      Dave in Maine

      Reply
  • 11. Franck  |  August 20, 2010 at 7:45 am

    CALIFORNIA PASSES LEGISLATION STRENGTHENING RELIGIOUS FREEDOMS

    Well, let’s see them use the argument of churches being forced to marry persons of the same gender again. Now there’s a law that says “nope, won’t happen”.

    – Franck P. Rabeson
    Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1155 days, as of today.

    Reply
    • 12. Bolt  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:08 am

      Cool!

      Reply
    • 13. Straight Grandmother  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:19 am

      Franck you in Madagascar and Greg in OZ ar the ones who are up and posting along with me (France) while our fellow P8TT members are sleeping in the USA. I should not forget that gal in the ivory Coast also.

      On the previous Topic I asked that this protest be given it’s own topic an surprisingly it happened. I posted a lot on the previous topic, well prolly mainly because no one esle was up yet, so I think I’ll kick back a bit and read the opinions of my fellow P8TTers.

      This was a great GREAT protest and everyone who participated is my HERO!!!!

      Reply
      • 14. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:34 am

        And you, Straight Grandmother, are one of my sheroes! And knowing that your son and son-in-law are in DC, and that your daughter and daughter-in-law are so close to DC, I truly hope that we get to meet them when we make our wedding-related trips there. They sound just totally awesome!

        Reply
    • 15. draNgNon  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:29 am

      I hope this law is struck as unconstitutional.

      this stuff is defined in the 1st amendment and it is not the state’s prerogative to agree or disagree.

      Reply
      • 16. Sheryl Carver  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:34 am

        How can something be unconstitutional when it reaffirms the US Constitution?

        Yes, it’s unnecessary from a legal point of view, but as has been mentioned here & other places, people (who are appallingly ignorant of civil rights) are significantly more likely to support marriage equality.

        Reply
    • 17. GAYGUY  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:53 am

      I LOVE THAT, we are now making so the have less and less excuses for us NOT to marry…what a GREAT idea!!

      Reply
    • 18. Keith  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:01 am

      I say that since they want to fight us that we fight them and once SSM is legal and sanctioned we go after their religions in an attempt to force them to treat people equally and perform SSM. They are evil and sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

      Reply
      • 19. Kathleen  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:23 am

        I hope you’re just kidding. I value our constitution’s guarantee of religious freedom.

        Reply
      • 20. Sheryl Carver  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:36 am

        Yes, I hope you are kidding. But since we do have anti-equality readers on this & other sites, PLEASE don’t even kid about this. It won’t take much for them to grab it & use it to fan the flames of fear.

        Reply
      • 21. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:46 am

        I would fight YOU on this Keith.
        Religious freedoms are very improtant!

        Reply
      • 22. fiona64  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:40 pm

        Obvious troll is obvious …

        This is exactly what the anti-equality forces keep insisting that GLBT people and their allies are after. It is blatantly apparent that someone has decided to make this post so that they can subsequently say “See? We told you so.”

        The 1st Amendment protects liturgical practices of all sorts — as is completely appropriate.

        So, “Keith,” why don’t you just stop the trolling and take up philately instead?

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
      • 23. Bennett  |  August 21, 2010 at 11:50 am

        Listen, religeous people are torpedoing their own religeous freedoms. But in the end they will have appropriate religious freedoms. They will just have to rely on tithing instead of revenues from seaside pavilions and removing property from the tax rolls.

        Thinking of how early christians took to the catacombs, and now seeing their big catherdals and temples and political clout to (you know that God owns all the best real estate, right?) I would have to say, “You’ve come a long way baby!”

        Can anyone say Christian Persecution Complex?

        Reply
      • 24. Bennett  |  August 21, 2010 at 12:23 pm

        Hi Troll,

        Here is a hint. If you really want to troll, first you have to troll a site that really wants to silence you. I’ve even see a few posts here that I would like to silence, but cooler heads than mine keep things cool by not censoring. They just let the sunshine in to do the disinfecting of posts like yours.

        Try trolling NOM. No don’t they have already been trolled to the point that their lame moderator coundnt keep up with the name and ip address changing so they had to shut down the comments. Thankfully, because I was running out of resources and vowed not to buy a new computer again just to get a post through. If you do decide to troll NOM, try hiding your trolling message in a trojan horse and make it subtle enough to trick a dim witted moderator that can’t comprehend the finer points of advocating bigotry wrapped up nice and pretty in the tried and true Christian Persecution Complex propganda package.

        Reply
  • 25. Bolt  |  August 20, 2010 at 7:46 am

    This is indeed a frustrating reality that we’re in. The only way I can describe the feeling of legal marriage equality is by it’s weight. It feels like a negative, oppressive, invisible entity has being lifted. When the 9th granted the D’s a stay, I felt it again, but it was in my gut too. It was negative, angry, and had a physical impact on my body.

    This may have been too much information, but I don’t mind. My therapist gets a real toxic dump when I see her.

    Have a nice day. Looking forward to our legal adventure. This forum is so positive!

    Reply
  • 26. Anne B.  |  August 20, 2010 at 7:46 am

    by the way, in terms of whether the prop 8 people have standing or not – interesting argument, but I don’t see the 9th circuit refusing to hear the case because of that. Too much of a legal technicality.

    Reply
    • 27. Don in Texas  |  August 20, 2010 at 8:20 am

      I disagree. The rules regarding “standing” are clearly established. If the Defendant-Intervenors don’t measure up, the Ninth Circuit will have no choice but to deny their appeal and dissolve their stay. That would leave Judge Walker’s decision in place.

      Reply
      • 28. Bolt  |  August 20, 2010 at 8:36 am

        This is very amazing to hear.

        Reply
      • 29. Keith  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:07 am

        That’s true but I disagree with their stay ruling. They should have accepted Judge Walker’s limited stay motion and then allowed gay marriages to proceed. The case was proven by a substantial margin, and if it hadn’t been, Walker would issued a longer stay. The CA9 should have agreed with him on that. Being denied equal rights is harming gays every day and allowing us to marry does no harm to heterosexual marriages. It should have been a simple decision. However, politics is in play due to the upcoming elections and that’s why they did what they did. Screw equality.

        Reply
    • 30. Dave T  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:32 am

      I agree with Don. One thing we all (especially the prop 8 supporters) have to keep in mind is that the courts have rules like this for one reason: to ensure that everyone involved in a dispute is treated fairly. Now, it doesn’t always work out that way, but it usually does, and if the Ninth Circuit were to throw out the rules just because they felt like it (because this is an important case, or whatever), it would damage the credibility of the judicial system (and most courts are very conscious of that).

      Reply
      • 31. carpoolcookie  |  August 20, 2010 at 10:48 am

        Yes. And even though the technicalities of the law do not always make sense on their surface to we laypeople, they have evolved over centuries for a REASON and judges understand them.

        (Though, also, judges and lawyers can disagree as to how to apply a law. That’s when the majority vote comes into play as you move up the system, through the appeal process.)

        Reply
    • 32. Bill  |  August 20, 2010 at 10:42 am

      It’s not a ‘legal technicality.’

      It’s the LAW.

      Period.

      For the court to make an exception specifically for this case would only point to their own bias.

      The anti-gay side will never be able to show they have standing, because they quite simply do not.

      Reply
  • 33. OldCoastie  |  August 20, 2010 at 8:00 am

    No justice?

    No peace.

    Reply
  • 34. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 8:17 am

    Yes, Adam, you are so right. This frustration is only going to grow until it reaches the flash point in cities all across America. Fortunately, what happened in San Diego was fairly mild–it was only two blocked entrances. There are, however, many in our community who are nearing the point of Peter Finch and who are about to go beyond what is necessary out of that same frustration.
    A lot of that frustration has to do with the fact that when Prop H8 was voted on, it went into effect IMMEDIATELY, whereas now we are being told to wait once again, just to satisfy some sense of protocol, professional courtesy, or to satisfy some unknown that will prevent the Prop H8 supporters from going to the SCOTUS. Why should we have to wait any longer? We really should not have to. Prop H8 was found to be unconstitutional, and that should be the end of it. Perhaps we need to do even more boycotting of all those businesses who contributed to the Yes on H8 campaign, and let them know exactly why we are boycotting. And even get list of the stockholders and let them know why. And while we are at it, let them know exactly what it will take for them to regain our business and our trust.
    And for them to do that, the following is what I would suggest:
    1) Give to Courage Campaign an amount equal to at least double the amount of money, time, and in-kind donations that they gave to Prop H8
    2) Contact the D-I’s and tell them to stop IMMEDIATELY with this nonsense so that marriages can resume
    3) Gain an education in what civics and the separation of church and state really mean

    Reply
  • 35. Kyle  |  August 20, 2010 at 8:36 am

    So glad to finally see someone writing about this. Why should we have to wait? Because when it’s all said and done gays are second class citizens. Walker was wrong to hold his stay and the 9th circuit is wrong to give deference to the losing side here.

    Reply
  • 36. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  August 20, 2010 at 8:44 am

    The frustration and anger over once again being denied equality has had a nasty effect on myself and my husbear. We have been snapping at each other over stupid little things the last few days. All these emotions are so bottled up and so overwhelming that we just snap now and than…
    We of course are not angry at each other, but rather taking it out on the one we love for lack of a better target I guess.

    I love this man with all my heart, and have waited a lifetime to marry him. We have raised two wonderful children to adulthood, contributed to our community and to society at large by being good citizens, law abiding, tax paying Americans……but always second class back of the bus Americans in the eyes of the haters.
    It really is almost more than we can bear at times.
    Will the hate ever end for the rainbow tribe?
    Will my family ever be allowed to become whole?

    Reply
    • 37. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 8:55 am

      Thank you, Mark. I was beginning to think it was just me. We have been going through the same thing in our house. And this even has our son upset that we are being denied our rights simply because some people think that the Constitution and the Bible are the same document and willfully ignore what the doctrine of separation of church and state is all about.

      Reply
    • 38. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:06 am

      ditto Mark! boiling over at our house too :(
      luckily the snapping and arguing has led me and partner to come to a better understanding and re commit to each other in a more caring and understanding way. …we had two days of arguing, frustration and stress that very well could have torn us apart…but both of us realized that what we both want is to be together. Many tears and honest communication led us back to each others arms. Hope all goes well in your home :)

      Reply
      • 39. Bill  |  August 20, 2010 at 10:48 am

        Do not give the our enemy the satisfaction of that.

        Because at the end of the day, it is really not about marriage to them.

        It is our LOVE that they HATE. And our LOVE that they want to destroy.

        Every time you feel like you want to fight and argue with each other, give a hug and a kiss instead and say something to each other that acknowledges what an exciting time it is to be a gay citizens at this point in history.

        But do not let the enemy dampen your flames of love!!! That’s their entire intention.

        Reply
    • 40. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:14 am

      Richard, Greg I am sorry to hear that you guys have been experiencing this as well…it’s probably perfectly normal all things considered. But in all honesty nothing this hurtful and this hateful should ever be considered ‘normal’.
      Try to do as we have, and remember you are not angry at your partner, you are angry at the hateful ignorant people responsible.

      Rich, our son continues to be so upset by all of this that he refuses to even thnk about getting married until his Dads can. :-(

      Reply
      • 41. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:31 am

        We have friends and family who are doing the same thing and refusing to get married until we can, Mark. Of course, BZ and I realize that we are not angry at each other, and that is the only thing that is keeping us going right now. But this is just one more example of the harm the CINO’s are causing us by their refusals to fact the truth.

        Reply
      • 42. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:58 am

        One good that has come from this….my son who lives primarily with his mom, doesn’t particularly care for my partner. these past days he’s witnessed me cry much and heard me express my sincere love for my dear partner…it seems he finally understands that I truly love my companion and expressed that he is glad that I do :) He gave me one of his favorite teddy bears to help me feel better. more tears….

        Reply
      • 43. fiona64  |  August 20, 2010 at 10:11 am

        Oh, Gregory … there are tears here now.

        We’ve been having a roller coaster week for so many reasons …

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
      • 44. AndrewPDX  |  August 20, 2010 at 10:35 am

        @Gregory… Please keep that teddy bear handy, I think we’re all going to need to hug it before this roller coaster is over.

        As Richard has pointed out, he and BZ have recognized they’re not angry at each other, but at this situation. I know it’s hard, but if you and your husband can recognize this, you can then focus that anger outwards and work together to fight this battle. You will see that your relationship will only grow stronger.

        Ditto to you Mark and Michelle and everyone; grab your spouse, hug them real tight, confess your love to each other, and then focus your pain and anger and fears together, and get out there and fight! You will see that the sum of two people in love is stronger than any of the hate they can throw at you!

        Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
        Andrew

        Reply
      • 45. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 10:38 am

        Thank you, Andrew. And if anybody has spare teddy bears out there, I think this would be a good time to find out who in the P8TT family doesn’t have a teddy bear, and let’s spread them out. I am lucky. My teddy bear stands 5’10” tall and has a beard.

        Reply
      • 46. Felyx  |  August 20, 2010 at 10:57 am

        If only we could all grab our spouses and hug them tight. :(

        Reply
      • 47. AndrewPDX  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:11 am

        @Feylix & Kevin, and Franck and those others who are unfortunately separated from their spouses. Yes, grab that teddy bear and squeeze all that much harder.
        Hold on tight.
        Don’t give up.
        Don’t give in.
        Keep fighting the fight.
        One day, you WILL be holding them close.

        Keep that in your hearts, all of us, and we WILL see Justice soon.

        “Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill

        Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
        Andrew

        Reply
      • 48. Felyx  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:31 am

        Found a Russian teddy-bear substitute. XN-XN-XN-XN!!

        http://www.internationaltoys.com/main.aspx?obj=64227&lang=lbRus

        Says all the right things too!!! :P

        Reply
      • 49. Dave P.  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:33 pm

        I think the Russian teddy bear is adorable! And for the rest of us, maybe a Maggie Gallagher punching bag or a Brian Brown dartboard to ease the tension.

        Reply
      • 50. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:48 pm

        @DaveP: I think Walter Drake has an item in their catalog where you submit a photograph and they put the photo on a dart board, and the cost of it depends upon how many darts you order with it.

        Reply
  • 51. Sagesse  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:00 am

    Subscribing.

    Reply
  • 52. Tracy  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:30 am

    As frustrating as this process is, I found this article on women’s suffrage by Gail Collins inspiring:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/14/opinion/14collins.html?_r=1&ref=gailcollins

    “We always need to remember that behind almost every great moment in history, there are heroic people doing really boring and frustrating things for a prolonged period of time.”

    Notable to my mind is how difficult the struggle truly was. These women early on set out to change every state constitution, because the conservative U.S. Senate was not on their side.

    There was a time when “voter” was implicitly defined as “one man” in this country, because traditionally, in almost every civilized society for hundreds of years, women had been considered as little more than property.

    But women sought to redefine the word “voter” to mean “one American”. Their fight was long and hard, but they did succeed, as will the LGBT community. Thankfully, I believe our momentum on this issue is increasing.

    Reply
    • 53. Cat  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:45 am

      That is a great article. Thanks for sharing.

      Let’s hope the prop 8 case gets to the USCS, and all the judges get letters from their gay relatives, saying they should be a good citizen and help Kristin Perry & Sandra Steir and Paul Katami & Jeffrey Zarrillo. That should do it.

      Reply
      • 54. Cat  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:46 am

        Oops. USSC of course.

        Reply
    • 55. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:35 am

      I love this article! ‘Inspiring’ is the right word. There is always tension between contentment (counting one’s blessings, seeing how far we’ve come) and discontent (impatience to be whole & wholly included, seeing what’s still missing). We need both in this and every struggle.

      We need to surround ourselves with blessings (our true families, a sense of wonder, fill in the blank!) to “tank up” on personal and community power for needed change.

      My wife, our family of friends & allies, and this online community help me to stave off hopelessness in what seems like a long and tiresome battle. And the gutsy tenacity of these suffragettes!

      Reply
      • 56. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:28 pm

        PAM! How you been? Haven’t seen a post from you in afew days….hope all is well with you and yours :-)
        Hang in there…we’re all in this together!

        Reply
      • 57. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:04 pm

        Thanks, Mark! Been in Florida for all of last week, looking after the aged parent (“aged p” for all you Dickens’ fans!). My mom is in great health, but her memory is pretty much gone. She still remembers us, though!

        Hope to see you in Seattle someday! My brother lives there (in Bothell, actually) and will be moving mom to live near him in the next few months. My spouse & I will be visiting–she’s never seen Seattle before, so I’m looking forward to showing her around!

        Reply
  • 58. Cat  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:34 am

    I just read up a bit on LOVING v. VIRGINIA. Justice can be a slow and painful process. I’m actually surprised it took less than four years to resolve (1963-1967); I suspect the animus behind the miscegenation laws was even stronger than the animus behind the anti-gay laws.

    It does comfort me that despite the formidable opposition, even from judges, they managed to win. We’ll win too.

    Reply
    • 59. Straight Grandmother  |  August 20, 2010 at 10:02 am

      Cat, you wrote, “I suspect the animus behind the miscegenation laws was even stronger than the animus behind the anti-gay laws”

      My gut tells me not true. I think the animus against GLBT people is equal. Look the H8ters keep killing, murdering our people just because they are GLBT. I do not think it is any less, not at all. Think of that little 2 year old who was beat to death by his mtohers BF because he was percieved as acting to “Girly.” I wish you were right but I don’t think you are.

      Reply
      • 60. Mouse  |  August 20, 2010 at 3:27 pm

        I think the times have changed a little and while people still hate just as much, it is no longer socially acceptable to express your hatred openly.

        Reply
    • 61. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:36 am

      Cat, I’ll bet those 4 years seemed endless to the Lovings.

      Reply
    • 62. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:07 pm

      Cat, my BIL mentioned to me that the SCOTUS passed up opportunities to rule on anti-miscegenation laws for years before taking the Loving case, even allowing a woman in Alabama (I think) to be jailed. It may take us years, too.

      Reply
    • 63. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:09 pm

      @SG, polls at the time of the Loving case were apparently something like 70% against interracial marriage being legal. Poll numbers against marriage equality now are nothing like that.

      Reply
      • 64. Cat  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:50 pm

        I’m just hoping that this time is the right time for marriage equality at the national level, both federal and state. I was trying to get some positive energy out of the Loving case, but I guess it’s hard for many of us (including me) to wait even one day longer. And of course there are plenty of reasons to worry that a long legal and societal battle is still ahead of us.

        My wife and I don’t dare to count on DOMA being repealed (or the new immigration law to pass), which would make it so much easier for my wife to stay here (she’s here on a temporary visa). I do take comfort in having a great circle of friends and colleagues who accept me for who I am, and I can do little else than believe with all my heart that a large majority of society will come around too in a not too distant future.

        Reply
      • 65. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:56 pm

        @Cat, I hope so, too. I hope the path will soon be cleared for your wife to stay with you.

        I am sort of the voice of doom and gloom on here, I’m afraid, because while I know that equality is coming, I know it, none of us knows when. I hate to see people think “we’ve won, we’ve won” when we’re not there, yet, and people’s hopes get dashed again.

        Best wishes to you and your wife.

        Reply
      • 66. Straight Grandmother  |  August 20, 2010 at 2:31 pm

        Ann S, I know what you are saying about the public sentiment at the time of Loving v Virginia. I am aware of the data. But I am also aware of the pure hatred of GLBTs today
        Here read this –

        http://sdgln.com/news/2010/08/19/police-gays-are-under-attack-covington-ky

        This is going on all over the country, this is not isolated by any means. Hate crimes against GLBT people steadily rise year after year, check Wikipedia. It just doesn’t make the MSM news is all.

        I remain unconvinced that the animus towards members of the GLBT community is less than towards the Loving couple. Inter racial couples got the crap kicked out of them then just as our GLBT members are getting the crap kicked out of them now. There is a certain segment of American society that is virulently hateful towards GLBTs. Look at the major religions that club together to defeat us, our enemies are indeed formidable. And our minority is smaller. There are fewer GLBTs as a percentage of the population now than there were people of color then.

        Reply
      • 67. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 2:34 pm

        @SG, you may be right. It it hard to know.

        Reply
  • 68. Trish  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:48 am

    Sharing some levity.

    Reply
    • 69. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan  |  August 20, 2010 at 10:27 am

      Thank you, Trish! I especially like the one that says, “God loves ALL Her children–even Her straight ones!” Talk about turning the tables on folks!

      Reply
      • 70. Trish  |  August 20, 2010 at 10:36 am

        I really liked:

        As Jesus said about gay marriage: ” “

        Reply
      • 71. Chris in Lathrop  |  August 20, 2010 at 3:36 pm

        Sadly, I’ve seen fellow Wiccans spew the same garbage the H8rs do. Fortunately, they’ve been few! <|:)

        Reply
      • 72. Trish  |  August 20, 2010 at 3:37 pm

        Blessed be, Chris!

        Reply
      • 73. Chris in Lathrop  |  August 20, 2010 at 5:41 pm

        Blessed be to you, too, Trish! And thanks for a wonderful video, while I’m at it. :)

        Reply
    • 74. Bolt  |  August 20, 2010 at 10:54 am

      “Dog loves fags.” Awesome.

      Reply
  • 75. Michelle Evans  |  August 20, 2010 at 10:09 am

    My wife and I were so absolutely, brilliantly happy on August 4th! It was an unbelievable day. I would never have thought that so soon after that magnificent day, I’d be sitting here very depressed and crying so hard that it is difficult to type, as I watch more loving couples be turned away from being able to marry.

    I really thought that somehow I could handle these repeated delays of justice better than I am, but like those in San Diego I have just about had enough and I have reached a boiling point where I am sick and tired of this rollercoaster. Cherie and I want off and we just want a normal, stable life–as everyone should have the right to experience.

    Reply
    • 76. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:33 pm

      HUGE HUGS Michelle!!!

      Reply
    • 77. Kathleen  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:35 pm

      And from me too. Love to you and your wife.

      Reply
  • 78. Phillip R  |  August 20, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Take all that frustration and hug it out m’friends. I never thought I’d see gay marriage anytime in my lifetime and we’re making huge bounds. It may be slow but progress is there. Equality WILL come.

    Reply
  • 79. Bob  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:01 am

    This story was highlited a number of times in past threads, and people where notified and invited to participate, Somehow those discusssions were avoided, or were minly focused on debate and judgement about weather or not it was the right action to take.

    Thanks to Straight Grandmothers request it now has a post of it’s own which seems to give people permission to actually be more aware of it.

    There was a follow protest yesterday for the people who were jailed, and there will possibly be more actions around this issue, Get in touch with SAME, and see if there’s anything you feel comfortable doing.

    These type of actions can be a great release, and positive expression of the negative feelings we’re talking about.

    I bet it would be a whole lot of fun to be involved in rehearsing for that flash mob in target, that was an amazing action.,

    I highly value the level of information and education that happens on this site, and realize the ultimate significance of the impact that has on changing hearts and minds, we won’t stop doing that, but I am glad that this thread gives some attention to other approaches in moving forward .

    These people give so much by getting out of their heads, and being live bodies, representing us, it matters when people personal contact is made, like the police officer moving a protestor, we become more visible and human. They had to plan for how to deal with us, and by the way, they could have dealt with a lot more of us, hopefully next time, we’ll fill their bus.

    It would be really interesting as I said before, for some follow up interviews, for example with the couples who had to go through that scene to get thier licences, I bet theire weddding will be all the more memorable because of this situation, and I;d really like to know if those people had any change of thought or had in any way been involved in this battle befoe. Just be real interesting to get their reaction.
    When situations get us pissed of , so that we’re fighting with our spouses, we could find other ways to vent that energy, find an organizaition with training in these types of actions ACT UP , SIT IN , MARCH

    Reply
  • 80. Erica  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:06 am

    I came out to my parents last week, in part because of all this prop 8 nonsense. I doubt many people here are hiding (it’s the courage campaign after all) but if you are, now’s probably as good a time as any. We’ve gotta work on people, one circle of contacts and loved ones at a time.

    Reply
    • 81. Cat  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:08 am

      Good for you! How did it go…?

      Reply
    • 82. AndrewPDX  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:18 am

      Welcome to the sunlight!
      Now, it’s time to go shopping and fill up the closet with so much clothes you’ll never think of going back in!

      Every day when someone can embrace their true self is a day to celebrate!

      This above all: to thine own self be true,
      And it must follow, as the night the day,
      Thou canst not then be false to any man.

      Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
      Andrew

      Reply
      • 83. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 12:55 am

        Ahh Andrew: ‘This above all: to thine own self be true

        One of the two main ‘rules’ I’ve always tried to live by.

        The other of course being: ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

        :)

        Just think what the world would be like if everyone followed at least these two rules.

        And Erica, congratulations!

        Reply
    • 84. Kate  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:19 am

      Congrats, Erica! We’re all eager to hear the story.

      Reply
    • 85. Bob  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:24 am

      Congratulations Erica, glad to hear it, the prop8 nonsense was partly what caused you to take action, as you say, so let us know how it goes. yeah prop 8

      was it more like frustration for you , about the issue, and did it help to see a whole community out here waiting for you, and working on the issues.?

      Reply
    • 86. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:28 am

      Awesome Erica!! I am proud of your courage!!
      How did they react?
      BIG HUGS!!!

      Reply
    • 87. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:44 am

      Congratulations! Good for you! And thanks for the timely reminder. If you need any support, please post–sometimes the aftermath can be more difficult than the act of coming out. Your courage is contagious.

      Reply
    • 88. Kathleen  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:01 pm

      Congratulations, Erica! And big, big hugs and giant smooches. xoxoxo

      Reply
    • 89. fiona64  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:43 pm

      Congratulations, Erica!

      Much love from your straight ally,
      Fiona

      Reply
    • 90. Erica  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:06 pm

      Wow – thanks for the outpouring of support everybody! I had told pretty much everyone that I’ve been in a relationship with a woman *except* for my parents. They seem perfectly okay with it (helped, perhaps, by the fact that they know and like my girlfriend), which is a great relief. It’s some of the extented family I’d probably lock horns with, but that doesn’t bother me as much. Thanks again!

      Reply
      • 91. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:23 pm

        Well, Erica, welcome to even more of your extended family. Yes, you are now officially, due to posting here today, a certified member of the P8TT family! This also means that you can go to the courageous families post and upload oa picture of you and your girlfriend. And you can also let your friends know about it, whether they are in a relationship or single, LGBTQQI or straight, because the pictures being asked for are pictures of the real people who support marriage equality and an end to the discrimination. Looking forward to hearing more from you!

        Reply
      • 92. Ray in MA  |  August 21, 2010 at 6:21 am

        Your new Toaster is in the mail!

        Reply
  • 93. Don in Texas  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:19 am

    When you get frustrated and snap at your loved ones, I hope you will remember these lines from “Going It Alone” by Steve Schalchlin, songwriter of “The Last Session,” an off-Broadway show of which I was an Associate Producer several years ago:

    Have I been so wrapped up in myself
    What about what you’ve been through as well?

    Do you lie awake and worry
    Never falling back to sleep
    Are you going through some private kind of hell?

    Do you also feel you’re out there on your own?
    Do you feel as though you’re going it alone.

    Do you wake at night and worry
    Never falling back to sleep

    Are you going through some private kind of hell?
    I’d have to read your mind to even tell.

    Just before I turned to go to sleep
    I brush a little hair back from your eye
    Suddenly the loneliness I felt just melts away

    And I smile because I know the reason why

    Can we really say we’re out there on our own?
    Can we really say we’re out there on our own

    When together we’ve been going it alone.

    Reply
  • 95. Mark  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:19 am

    Have You Been To Jail For Justice?

    Was it Cesar Chavez? Maybe it was Dorothy Day
    Some will say Dr. King or Gandhi set them on their way
    No matter who your mentors are it’s pretty plain to see
    That, if you’ve been to jail for justice, you’re in good company

    Have you been to jail for justice? I want to shake your hand
    Cause sitting in and lying down are ways to take a stand
    Have you sung a song for freedom? or marched that picket line?
    Have you been to jail for justice? Then you’re a friend of mine

    You law abiding citizens, come listen to this song
    Laws were made by people, and people can be wrong
    Once unions were against the law, but slavery was fine
    Women were denied the vote and children worked the mine
    The more you study history the less you can deny it
    A rotten law stays on the books til folks like us defy it

    The law’s supposed to serve us, and so are the police
    And when the system fails, it’s up to us to speak our peace
    It takes eternal vigilance for justice to prevail
    So get courage from your convictions
    Let them haul you off to jail!

    – ANNE FEENEY

    Reply
    • 96. Straight Grandmother  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:35 am

      WOW! Just WOW!!!!

      SHOUT, SHOUT, SHOUT!
      FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!
      PROTEST, PROTEST, PROTEST!

      And for those of us who can’t (only for a very good reason) support those who do, those on the front lines. Those going off to jail for us, for our families.

      SOLIDARITY!!!!!!!

      I am in Solidarity with SAME and probably every Queer organization in the country. I have yet to see a Queer organization that I don’t like. The Queers are standing up, Go QUEER!!!!!!!!

      Reply
    • 97. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:47 am

      This poem reminds me of Phil Ochs. Is it a poem only or a song?

      Reply
    • 98. fiona64  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:45 pm

      I was going to post this very song, Mark! I’m glad I scrolled all the way down. :-)

      My favorite version is by Peter, Paul & Mary — they are some of my dearest heroes.

      Love,
      Fiona

      Reply
  • 99. Bob  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:28 am

    in a free society we don’t have to obey unjust laws, I wonder if any legal eagles , could shed some light on the letter, that one of the couples submitted as to their reasoning for taking this action, the writer was an attorney,

    Reply
    • 100. Don in Texas  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:40 am

      No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it. — 16 Am. Jur. Sec. 177 late 2d, Sec 256

      Reply
    • 101. Trish  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:54 am

      Bob,

      I believe the analysis comes down to this:

      A District Court has determined that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional and issued an injunction against its enforcement. Such injunction and decision has been stayed. The stay means, at least to the general public, that the decision has no effect just yet.

      In our system of government, the executive branch (which is our Governor and agencies acting under him) is charged with enforcing the law. However, they do not have to enforce unconstitutional laws. The stay means that the Governor is not enjoined against enforcing Proposition 8. It does not mean that the Governor is required to enforce Proposition 8. Consequently, the argument goes, they do not have to enforce Proposition 8 and, since it has been declared unconstitutional, they should not enforce Proposition 8.

      However, because the case is on appeal, there is risk that Walker’s decision is overturned. If it is overturned, then there is confusion regarding those marriages that were performed after Walker’s ruling and the time the decision is overturned. This is even more of an issue than if the stay were not in effect because at least then there would have been an injunction preventing enforcement. Some could also argue that by not enforcing Proposition 8, the clerks and Governor are violating a court order. I don’t think this argument has much merit, but as has been stated repeatedly, sometimes courts are unpredictable. Consequently, the risks of not enforcing Proposition 8 are high while the stay is in effect.

      Reply
      • 102. Bob  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:19 pm

        Don an Trish, thanks for reading his letter, and offering some explanation,
        this guy put some thought and reasoning into his actions, something he stands behind,

        Reply
  • 103. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:40 am

    As a Prop8 Supporter, I dont really care what “harm” it does to the G&L, because frankly, it’s BS. Get a grip. You “people” are not only in a massive identity crisis. It truly is a disgusting way of living….period. There is no harm done to you…get over it!

    Reply
    • 104. Don in Texas  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:41 am

      How terrible it must be to live a life filled with bitterness and hatred. Bless your heart. I hope you heal soon.

      Reply
    • 105. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:48 am

      My husband and I will pray for you, Marcia. How truly sad to be so filled with bitterness and hatred that you have to lash out and attempt to make other people miserable simply because your own life is so horrid and filled with abuse. You can talk with us about it, we won’t bite. And if you really want to know what our way of living is like, why don’t you ask some of us. Our way of living is not that different from yours. We love our spouses, we don’t abuse ourselves or each other, and we are not in an identity crisis. You may be, but we are not. After all, your tirade does seem to be reminiscent of “Methinks the lady doth protest too much!”
      Again, we will pray for you that you find true happiness so that you no longer feel the need to destroy the happiness of others, especially those you don’t even know.

      Reply
      • 106. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 6:05 pm

        Richard…What I’m saying is that if you were born a man…why is it so hard to act like one? You all obviously believe that you were born that way but in reality your lustful spirit has distorted your way from what is right. Man & Woman not Adam and Steve.

        Reply
      • 107. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 8:12 pm

        No, what you are saying is that you expect me to act like an outdated, paternalistic, chauvinistic version of what a man is supposed to be–someone who marries a woman and treats her as property. You are the one whose bitterness and hatred has distorted you away from what you are supposed to be. I really do pity you, and truly hope that once you have graduated from high school and are no longer surrounded by the jocks and other bullies who are torturing you for being different from some idiotic, distorted, idealized version of what a man is supposed to be, that you will finally come to accept yourself for who and what you truly are, and will then no longer feel a need to trash other people for being different from you, nor will you feel some obsessive compulsive disorder to force people to change just so that they fit into your little mold that someone has programmed into you complete with all of its distorted views on what men and women are supposed to be. And for all of this talk about Adam and Eve versus Adam and Steve, you really need to stop relying on texts that have been butchered and redacted since the first century of the common era and grow up. And please, stop trying to convert us to your religion of hatred, bigotry, and feeling superior to others through tearing them down because you have such a hard time accepting yourself. I have gone through too much abuse in my life because of who I am and who I was born to be to put up with any more of it from you and others like you. I am so sick and tired of all you self-righteous bigots trying to sugar coat your hatred by misusing and abusing the word love. If you really knew what love is and what it means, you would actually pay attention to what we are saying instead of trying to use the misinterpretations, mistranslations, and pretexts that have been made of the scriptures for too long and used to hold various groups under oppression simply because that was the popular group to attack at that time. I guess that since you are unable to convince me to hate myself as much as you hate yourself, that your next battle will be to strip me of my constitutional rights to be a Jew. Or is that even going to be enough for you? Will you and your kind stop at anything less than my execution? Are you so certain that your hatred and bigotry are what Rabbi Yoshua ben Yosef of Nazareth preached that you are willing to turn this country from a Constitutional, representative republic into a theocracy, and then end up losing all of the rights that so many others have fought for you to have? And by the way, one of the staunchest supporters and fighters for your very right as a woman to vote and to own property in your own name and to have a legally recognized identity outside of your husband’s name was a lesbian.
        And many of us stood alongside of MLK and the others for the rights of AA people here when we had even fewer means for making out own voices heard than the few we have now.
        So, Marcus, please do all of us a favor and get down off of your “moral” high horse, go back to your middle school homework, and take some civics courses, along with Aramaic, Hebrew, Chaldean, Koine Greek, History and Culture of the Middle East from Old Testament times to now, and some psychology, sociology, anthropology, and introduction the the Constitution. then come back and have a discussion that is actually adult in nature.
        We really don’t need your self-righteous diatribes and misogyny here.

        Reply
    • 108. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:49 am

      wow, both “harm” and “people” in quotes. sorry you lack empathy for fellow human beings. hope your heart heals and you grow up spiritually.

      Reply
    • 109. fiona64  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:48 pm

      Dear Marcia:

      How said that you would put the word people in quotations to make it sarcastic, as though our GLBT neighbors are not even human.

      I wonder if you would do the same thing if we were talking about people of color, or of a different faith from you?

      I am a straight, married woman and guess what? Prop 8 did harm to me, and to you. How? Because now *anyone’s* rights can be put up for a popular vote if someone decides that they are “icky” or “disgusting.”

      Which of your rights, Marcia, should we put up for a vote? I’m just curious.

      Love,
      Fiona (who will be praying for you to feel a lot less angry about whatever has hurt you in your lifetime)

      Reply
      • 110. Michelle Evans  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:57 pm

        Fiona, that is the point that Ms. Smith doesn’t believe we are human. Neither do people such as Maggie, Brian, or any of the rest of their ilk.

        Reply
      • 111. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 6:02 pm

        Actually, you’re wrong. Prop 8 is a big deal and cannot be compared to people of color, who actually have integrity. As for all you GLBT’s who are self-righteous people who actually think you deserve a “right”. You’re not only people with an identity crisis but you push your dispicle agenda on anyone who who listen to your pity party. Get over it.Dont pray for me, I dont what what you believe in, and seeing on what you stand for…it’s not good.

        Reply
      • 112. Kathleen  |  August 20, 2010 at 6:07 pm

        Marcia, Marcia, Marcia. It appears English is not your native language. You might want to find someone to proofread your comments so we can understand what you’re trying to say.

        Reply
      • 113. AndrewPDX  |  August 20, 2010 at 7:02 pm

        @Marcia! Welcome back!

        I have just a few words for you:
        Get over it. Dont pray for me, I dont what what you believe in, and seeing on what you stand for…it’s not good.

        Isn’t it nice that we have the First Amendment so that we can each believe what we want?

        Have a nice day!

        Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
        Andrew

        Reply
      • 114. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:04 am

        Actually, you’re wrong. Prop 8 is a big deal and cannot be compared to people of color, who actually have integrity. As for all you GLBT’s who are self-righteous people who actually think you deserve a “right”. You’re not only people with an identity crisis but you push your dispicle agenda on anyone who who listen to your pity party. Get over it.Dont pray for me, I dont what what you believe in, and seeing on what you stand for…it’s not good.

        Wow, I can almost visualize the spittle streaming from your mouth as you desperately stab out your hatred upon your keyboard.

        Maybe you want to take your meds first, walk around the block or something, and try again?

        Bless your heart.

        Reply
    • 115. Michelle Evans  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:53 pm

      Ms. Smith forgot to give the rest of the quote. It is from Shakespeare and it goes as follows:

      “Love is not love, which alters, where it alterations find.”
      Shakespeare Sonnet 116

      In other words Ms. Smith, you do not actually love someone if you find out something about them that alters that fact. Your love is obviously shallow and meaningless. That is what leads to things like divorce in “traditional” marriage, and yet exactly what has kept my wife and I together for 29 years because we actually love each other “for better or for worse, etc, etc, etc.”

      Reply
      • 116. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:05 am

        @Kathleen: No, that was an FU to Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!

        :)

        Reply
    • 117. Kalbo  |  August 20, 2010 at 5:21 pm

      Reply
      • 118. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 5:57 pm

        Oh’ Kalbo, you’re a douche & you’re gross.

        Reply
      • 119. Kathleen  |  August 20, 2010 at 6:04 pm

        Huh?

        I think the point of this video is a F-U to homophobes, not glbt people. Am I missing something?

        Reply
      • 120. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 7:48 pm

        Oh, Kalbo! Lovely!!!

        Reply
      • 121. Ronnie  |  January 30, 2011 at 1:22 pm

        ROFL awesome..love this song…..MS…watch it….learn it…live it…love it….exactly…..glad I missed this troll..geesh…..face in palms……”f**k u” is an understatement ….<3….Ronnie

        Reply
    • 122. Gray Coyote  |  August 20, 2010 at 6:00 pm

      You’re a sociopath and a hetero-supremacist pig.

      Reply
    • 123. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:00 am

      Oh look! Another ignorant hater drops in to shit all over the nice carpet!

      Marcia Smith, another “person” who is so filled with hatred I can smell the stench all the way over here in Denver?

      Whats the matter Marcia? Why is your husband, letting you use the Internet unsupervised? He should take better care of his property.

      Reply
  • 124. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:41 am

    LOVE is NOT love…you people are wrong and need help. It’s too bad.

    Reply
    • 125. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:50 am

      Too bad, so sad. You don’t recognize love when you see it. That IS too bad.

      Reply
    • 126. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:52 am

      English is too poor a language to express what I think you are trying to say. “Caritas” or “agape”, selfless love, is possible between any beings. In any case, I don’t think selfless love is inspiring you to post. Maybe the opposite?

      Reply
    • 127. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:54 am

      If love is not love, then what is it? You truly sound as if you have bought into all of the misinterpretations, mistranslations, and redactions that have been done to the scriptures, as well as never having studied the cultures and societies of the times in which it was written. Many of the things that have been left out of the translations have been left out by those who were trying to hide the fact that they were born gay. If you choose to believe otherwise, and choose to be a bigot, and to be self-righteous, then that is your affair. However, do not use your bigotry to assume a position of moral superiority over other people, because that only proves the extent of how inferior to others you truly feel. Perhaps you also need to go back and reread the scriptures and read them in their true context. You might also consider courses in sociology, psychology, culture and history, civics, Aramaic, Hebrew, Chaldean, and Koine Greek. You would be amazed at what you might learn when you truly open your mind and stop letting others do your thinking for you.

      Reply
    • 128. Jeff  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:04 pm

      We all have out own opinions. Hopefully you will find the peace your looking for because the above post was not an expression of love or understanding.

      Reply
      • 129. Jeff  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:06 pm

        out = our… wish this had an edit button!

        Reply
    • 130. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:38 pm

      Christ would disagree with you Ms. Smith…in fact he did.
      He said ‘Love the neighbor…’ NOT ‘Love thy neighbor IF…’
      Unconditional love is just that UNCONDITIONAL.
      I will pray for your eyes and your heart to be opened.
      God Bless you!

      Reply
    • 131. fiona64  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:49 pm

      Dear Marcia:

      Please tell me why the love that my friend Richard has for his husband is any different from the love I have for my husband? Is it only okay to love someone if they look a certain way?

      I wonder what Rabbi Yeshua ben Yussef would say about your definitions of whom we should love and care for …

      Love,
      Fiona

      Reply
    • 132. Michelle Evans  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:55 pm

      Sorry, my answer to Ms. Smith’s post with the Shakespeare quote got tagged to her earlier post about hating LGBT people.

      What a sorry life to live with so much hatred and not to know true love.

      Reply
      • 133. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:12 pm

        Michelle, I know what you and Cherie are going through with this emotional roller coaster ride, and want to remind you that BZ and I are here for you anytime you want to talk.
        I also want to thank you for getting me to go back and look into my Shakespeare again.

        Reply
    • 134. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:08 am

      LOVE is NOT love

      Ahh, your stupidity is resplendant. Please post something equally asinine, like ‘RED is NOT red’.

      Hint: changing the case of the letters in a word, doesn’t change the meaning of the word.

      Stay in school. Don’t do drugs.

      Reply
  • 135. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:43 am

    It’s not bitterness or hatred. It’s what’s right. You were born a man, so ACT like one and not someone who tries to sound and walk like a woman…what dont you get?? Identity crises.

    Reply
    • 136. Kate  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:47 am

      What a hoot! I’m afraid your level of intelligence won’t stand a chance here with this group, but it’s always fun to have a non-thinker hang around for a while because it gives us a laugh. But they never last. Too bad.

      Reply
    • 137. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:56 am

      I DO act like a man, and I WALK like a man. IN fact, I am probably more man than you could ever handle. But then you will never get to find out, because you don’t have the right equipment.
      And you might try actually getting to know us, rather than throwing out all of the fear- and hate-based stereotypes.

      Reply
      • 138. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:10 pm

        Richard, you are so cool. :)

        Reply
      • 139. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:24 pm

        Thank you, PamC. You are quite cool yourself.
        BTW, how did things go in Florida? Did your Scentsy order arrive safely?

        Reply
      • 140. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:32 pm

        Florida went well, although heartbreaking…my mother repeats questions every minute or two, like a 4 year old. But she’s in good health, and we kids (lol, I’m 50 and I’m the youngest) are taking the right next steps. My brother, a retired Navy doctor in Seattle, will be setting her up in a memory care apartment less than 1/2 mile from his home.

        And yes, I received the scentsies–sorry I forgot to write, but they were delivered just a few minutes before we married (renewed our vows & got a marriage certificate in CT), so I was a bit distracted…
        :)

        Reply
      • 141. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:36 pm

        @Pam, congratulations on the renewal of vows and wedding certificate! How wonderful!

        I’m sorry about your mother. It’s so sad. My MIL is still able to live at home with my FIL, but the day will come when she will also need to go to a memory care unit.

        Hugs to you.
        Ann

        Reply
      • 142. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:49 pm

        It’s always difficult to see that happen to a beloved parent or other loved one, isn’t it, Pam? I have already told my mother-in-law that we are going to start bringing my laptop over so that I can set it up and just let her talk about her life so we will have a permanent record of it, and that way, we can make DVD’s of it for the children and grandchildren.
        Glad you got your Scentsy order, and that does seem kind of serendipitous that it arrived on the day you renewed your vows and got your marriage certificate. Sort of like having a day that was doubly filled with sweet scents, wasn’t it?

        Reply
      • 143. fiona64  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:52 pm

        I love you, Richard.

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
      • 144. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:01 pm

        Love you, too, fiona.

        ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥

        Richard

        Reply
    • 145. fiona64  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:52 pm

      Wow. I was born a woman. How is it that you can sit there and say that everyone here was “born a man”?

      I guess you really have bought into all of the biggest stereotypes of what GLBT people are like. I am guessing that you know many people who are GLBT, but they are not out to you because it doesn’t feel safe to them. And guess what? You can’t tell by looking at someone, or how they dress, or how they speak, or how they wear their hair, or any other thing, whether or not they are gay.

      Who are you to say what is “right” for anyone but yourself? Frankly, I hope you don’t think you represent all straight people with your remarks, because this straight woman feels very sorry for and embarrassed by you.

      Love,
      Fiona

      Reply
    • 146. Joel  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:39 pm

      Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!
      Being gay isn’t about acting like a woman! Where did you get such a ridiculous notion? Neither my husband nor I desire to be a woman. My sister, who is a lesbian, would not relish being a man, either. On those points I can assure you.

      I’m curious to know how you acquired the authority to decide for others what’s “right” and what’s “wrong.”

      You need a little education, and you need to meet some gay and lesbian people. In the meantime, I will pray that your deity returns humanity and sympathy to your soul.

      Shalom

      Reply
      • 147. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:52 pm

        Shalom, Joel, and gut Shabbos! Thank you for your post.

        Reply
      • 148. Joel  |  August 20, 2010 at 2:16 pm

        Good Shabbos to you as well, Richard and to your husband to be. Thank you. Sometimes responding to hopeless trolls is just a great way to vent and have a little fun, nu?
        Shalom

        Reply
      • 149. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 2:26 pm

        Oh, yes. Of course, I am still learning a lot of the spellings, so I don’t post here what I know of my traffic Yiddish, but I may do that once I have the spellings down.

        Reply
    • 150. Gray Coyote  |  August 20, 2010 at 6:01 pm

      Sounds like you need some Summer’s Eve to wash the sand out.

      Reply
    • 151. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:12 am

      It’s not bitterness or hatred.

      Haha, of course it is. It’s so obvious!

      Reply
  • 152. Don in Texas  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:45 am

    LOVE is NOT love…

    Nothing speaks louder than self-delusion.

    Reply
  • 153. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Self-delusion….exactly what goes in your man/woman…I don’t know what I am brain.

    Reply
    • 154. Kate  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:49 am

      I don’t know what “you are brain,” either.

      PS — You’ll need to learn to use the “reply” feature to keep your “thoughts” in order here.

      Reply
    • 155. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:00 pm

      No, Marcia, you are the one who is delusional. I know exactly who and what I am. Unfortunately, you do not know who or what you are, or you would be secure enough in your own identity as a teen-aged boy with a face full of zits to accept that you are exactly who HaShem created you to be, and that I am exactly who HaShem created me to be, and you would be content. You would not feel a need to come into a site that is pro-equality and trash all of us by your stereotypes.
      I truly do feel sorry for you. Your life must be utter hell.
      You must be so lonely, not having anyone who loves you. But then, if you want someone to love you, you must first love yourself, and your posts make it obvious that you see some failure in yourself, and you are therefore unable to love yourself.
      Perhaps you would like to share what has warped your psyche so horribly that you only feel happy when you are tearing other people down and trying to destroy their happiness and their lives.

      Reply
    • 156. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:15 am

      Self-delusion….exactly what goes in your man/woman…I don’t know what I am brain.

      Hmm. You shouldn’t post when you’re drunk or hopped up on goofballs. Each post you make seems to make less and less sense.

      I am the Walrus, Coo Coo Ca Choo.

      Reply
      • 157. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:19 am

        Reply
      • 158. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 2:04 am

        Ha! Thanks LLB!

        Reply
  • 159. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Do you really think sleeping and being attracted to a man is right? What happened in your life that your view is so distorted??

    Reply
    • 160. Trish  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:55 am

      Marcia, thank you! I absolutely do not think sleeping and being attracted to a man is right for me. I’m glad you understand.

      Reply
    • 161. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:02 pm

      And why are you so worried about it? What happened in your life that you have to destroy other people? What happened to warp you so badly that you hate yourself to the point that the only time you can accept yourself is when you are working to harm other people?
      Did your husband leave you for another man?
      Or are you having other personal problems that you cannot accept?

      Reply
    • 162. fiona64  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:54 pm

      I do sleep with and am attracted to men.

      (I’m pretty sure that’s a disappointment to Marcia … sorry!)

      Love,
      Fiona

      Reply
      • 163. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:17 am

        Well fiona, considering her past posts, she no doubt assumes that everyone here must be gay.

        She doesn’t strike me as a thinker.

        Reply
    • 164. Joel  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:47 pm

      You certainly do seem to be centering your thoughts around the sexual acts of gay men, Marcia. Why is it that you give no thought to the lovely lesbians who post here? Could it be that you are actually a man who is distressed over his own sexual orientation?

      I certainly DO think that being attracted to, and sleeping with a man is right. For me, anyway. It’s not right for my sister or my father, they’re both attracted to women.

      What happened in your life to make you so intolerant? What awful occurrence sent you over the lip of ignorance into utter bigotry? Were you dropped on your head when you were a baby?

      Reply
  • 165. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:49 am

    It’s laughable how you don’t seem to address your identity crisis issue. No comment there right?!

    Reply
    • 166. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:51 am

      Could I see your degree in psychology, please? No?

      Too bad.

      Reply
      • 167. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:53 am

        Get over yourself…go look in a mirror and stop acting like a man.

        Reply
      • 168. fiona64  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:55 pm

        Oh, Ann. Isn’t that funny? Marcia thinks that anyone posting here must automatically be gay or lesbian — except for “herself,” of course.

        What a laugh-riot.

        I bet “she” thinks that everyone who marched with MLK was African-American, too.

        What a sad little person.

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
      • 169. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:01 pm

        Yeah, today was one of my “stealth ally” moments. I love doing that.

        Wait’ll I tell my husband I’m apparently a gay man, at least according to Marcia.

        Today is our daughter’s 16th birthday! And she is a proud ally also, not confused like Marcia.

        Reply
      • 170. fiona64  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:33 pm

        Happy birthday to your daughter!

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
      • 171. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:34 pm

        Thank you, Fiona!

        Reply
      • 172. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:50 pm

        Yes, Ann! Happy Sweet sixteen to your daughter! And I hope this one is even better than her last one, and that today is the beginning of a lifetime of days where each one is better than the one before.

        Reply
      • 173. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:54 pm

        Thank you, Richard!

        Reply
      • 174. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 2:40 pm

        I told my husband that Marcia thinks I’m a gay man. He thought that the obstetrician who delivered our daughter 16 years ago today, among other people, would be awfully surprised.

        Reply
    • 175. Kate  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:51 am

      Again, you need to use the “reply” feature or your postings will not be in order.

      Reply
    • 176. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:56 am

      I have a PsyD (1998) from the University at Albany. That’s a doctorate in psychology. I’m more concerned at how you seem to enjoy disrespecting others than with your fake concern for anyone’s “identify crisis.” Taking pleasure in putting down other people is often an indicator of problems creating and sustaining friendships and other intimate relationships. (sorry re: diagnostic language, but hard to resist with attackers)

      Reply
      • 177. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:00 pm

        Love ya, Pam.

        Marcia, that’s in a completely platonic way, in case it’s any of your business.

        Oh, that’s right, it’s none of your business.

        Reply
    • 178. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:07 pm

      You are the only one with and identity crisis, Marcia. I know exactly who and what I am. I am Richard Allen Walter, husband of Rabbi Richard C. Jernigan, and the rebbitizen for the LGBTQQIA community of Jews who are otherwise unaffiliated in North Carolina, South Carolina, and Virginia or any other Jews who contact us for help with their spiritual journey. You are the one suffering from an identity crisis, because if you actually knew who you were, and if you actually accepted that who you are is who you are meant to be, you would then have no reason to attack us, as you would see that your fear, hatred, and bigotry have absolutely no concrete foundation.

      Reply
      • 179. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:10 pm

        My point has been proven even more. Wow.

        Reply
      • 180. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:23 pm

        How so, Marcus? How so? It is kind of hard for someone to prove your point when, like a joke with no punch line, or a pencil that has not been sharpened, you don’t have one.

        Reply
    • 181. Kathleen  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:12 pm

      I see another bored attention-seeking youngster has made it on to the board. Do your guardians know you’re posting here?

      Reply
      • 182. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:17 pm

        lol, love that.

        Reply
      • 183. Mouse  |  August 20, 2010 at 4:26 pm

        I can’t wait for school to start again.

        Reply
  • 184. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:51 am

    Kate…go look in the mirror and start acting like a woman. and not a weird looking tomboy with and not someone who doesn know what the hell she is.

    Reply
    • 185. Kate  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:54 am

      Since you don’t know me, you obviously have no idea what I look like.

      PS — improving your grammar would also help us understand what you’re trying to say; “with” and “and” and “not” don’t add up to anything clear.

      Reply
      • 186. Sheryl Carver  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:22 pm

        More evidence that we have an immature person writing as “Marcia”. Possibly too sick to go to school today, but clearly not too sick (physically, anyway) to troll away.

        Reply
    • 187. fiona64  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:56 pm

      I can’t wait for school to be back in session …

      Love,
      Fiona

      Reply
  • 188. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Ann…let me guess. You dont know what you are either…what does your birth certificate say? You dont know yet?

    Reply
    • 189. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:53 am

      Actually, Marcia, I am a straight, married woman and mother. Yes, I do know what I am.

      Your ASSumptions are showing.

      Reply
      • 190. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:55 am

        Then you’re worse off, not knowing what’s right and teaching your children that “lusting” after men on men and women on women is right…shame on you!

        Reply
      • 191. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:56 am

        Oooh, you’ve got the hang of the reply button. Goodie.

        What will you do if one of your children turns out to be gay, Marcia?

        Reply
  • 192. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:53 am

    You people are sad….see ya!

    Reply
    • 193. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:54 am

      Don’t let the door hit ya.

      Reply
      • 194. Dave P.  |  August 20, 2010 at 3:29 pm

        Yup. we don’t want any ass prints on our nice new doors.

        Reply
    • 195. Kate  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:55 am

      Marcia, see where it says “reply?” Again, try that ……. it’s the only way you stand the slightest chance of being understood.

      Reply
    • 196. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:10 pm

      Actually, Marcia, the sad one is you. Goodbye, and have a nice “life,” bless your itty-bitty, pea picking heart.

      Reply
      • 197. Sheryl Carver  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:23 pm

        And tinier brain.

        Reply
      • 198. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:30 pm

        Sheryl, all I can say to that one is–ROTFLMFGJAO! I fell out of my chair when I read that one!

        Reply
      • 199. Sheryl Carver  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:02 pm

        Glad to contribute to your well-being, Richard!

        I loved your reply, too! Haven’t heard “pea-picking heart” since Tennessee Ernie Ford’s show went off the air. (Now you know I’m not a spring chicken.)

        I’m not sure if laughter really is THE best medicine, but it surely is one of the best. With the emotional roller coaster ride we are all on these days, I’ll take every opportunity I can to laugh!

        Reply
      • 200. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:17 pm

        On one of the other threads I posted something a friend sent me in an email. Think I’ll post it again here also.

        We Southern Women…

        Southern women know their summer weather report:
        Humidity
        Humidity
        Humidity

        Southern women know their vacation spots:
        The beach
        The rivuh
        The crick

        Southern women know everybody’s first name:
        Honey
        Darlin’
        Shugah

        Southern women know the movies that speak to their hearts:
        Fried Green Tomatoes
        Driving Miss Daisy
        Steel Magnolias
        Gone With The Wind

        Southern women know their religions:
        Baptist
        Methodist
        Football

        Southern women know their cities dripping with Southern charm:
        Chawl’stn
        S’vanah
        Foat Wuth
        N’awlins
        Addlanna

        Southern women know their elegant gentlemen:
        Men in uniform
        Men in tuxedos
        Rhett Butler

        Southern girls know their prime real estate:
        The Mall
        The Country Club
        The Beauty Salon

        Southern girls know the 3 deadly sins:
        Having bad hair and nails
        Having bad manners
        Cooking bad food

        More Suthen-ism’s:
        Only a Southerner knows the difference between a hissie fit and a conniption fit, and that you don’t “HAVE” them, you “PITCH” them.

        Only a Southerner knows how many fish, collard greens, turnip greens, peas, beans, etc.., make up “a mess.”

        Only a Southerner can show or point out to you the general direction of “yonder.”

        Only a Southerner knows exactly how long “directly” is, as in: “Going to town, be back directly.”

        Even Southern babies know that “Gimme some sugar” is not a request for the white, granular sweet substance that sits in a pretty little bowl in the middle of the table.

        All Southerners know exactly when “by and by” is. They might not use the term, but they know the concept well.

        Only a Southerner knows instinctively that the best gesture of solace for a neighbor who’s got trouble is a plate of hot fried chicken and a big bowl of cold potato salad. If the neighbor’s trouble is a real crisis, they also know to add a large banana puddin!

        Only Southerners grow up knowing the difference between “right near” and “a right far piece.” They also know that “just down the road” can be 1 mile or 20

        Only a Southerner, both knows and understands, the difference between a redneck, a good ol’ boy, and po’ white trash.

        No true Southerner would ever assume that the car with the flashing turn signal is actually going to make a turn.

        A Southerner knows that “fixin” can be used as a noun, a verb, or an adverb.

        Only Southerners make friends while standing in lines, … and when we’re “in line,”… we talk to everybody!

        Put 100 Southerners in a room and half of them will discover they’re related, even if only by marriage.

        In the South, y’all is singular, all y’all is plural.

        Southerners know grits come from corn and how to eat them.

        Every Southerner knows tomatoes with eggs, bacon, grits, and coffee are perfectly wonderful; that red eye gravy is also a breakfast food; and that fried green tomatoes are not a breakfast food.

        When you hear someone say, “Well, I caught myself lookin’,” you know you are in the presence of a genuine Southerner!

        Only true Southerners say “sweet tea” and “sweet milk.” Sweet tea indicates the need for sugar and lots of it — we do not like our tea unsweetened. “Sweet milk” means you don’t want buttermilk.

        And a true Southerner knows you don’t scream obscenities at little old ladies who drive 30 MPH on the freeway. You just say, “Bless her heart” … and go your own way.

        To those of you who are still a little embarrassed by your Southerness: Take two tent revivals and a dose of sausage gravy and call me in the morning. Bless your heart!

        And to those of you who are still having a hard time understanding all this Southern stuff, … bless your hearts, I hear they are fixin’ to have classes on Southernness as a second language!

        And for those that are not from the South but have lived here for a long time, all y’all need a sign to hang on y’alls front porch that reads “I ain’t from the South, but I got here as fast as I could.”

        Southern girls know men may come and go, but friends are fahevah!

        Now…… Shugah, send this to someone who was raised in the South or wish they had been! If you’re a Northern transplant, bless your little heart, fake it. We know you got here as fast as you could!

        Again, I hope this gives everybody here some good laughs.

        Reply
      • 201. Sheryl Carver  |  August 20, 2010 at 8:33 pm

        Love your “Southern Women” post, Richard!

        I grew up in a very blue-collar family in Maine. I have always admired the gentlewomen of the South. They have true class!

        I’d love to be like Sandra Bullock’s character in “The Blind Side” – self-possessed, refined & gracious, yet not tolerating cr*p from ANYBODY.

        I’m actually more like Ellie Mae in “The Beverly Hillbillies”, but not nearly as lovely. Good-hearted (I try), but lacking in social graces. Maybe if I watch “The Blind Side” & the films you mentioned, I can upgrade my skill set. :-)

        Love (platonically, which will probably upset Marcia),
        Sheryl

        Reply
      • 202. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:07 pm

        Thanks, Sheryl. In fact, when I saw the first promos for The Blind Side, I already knew what it was about, because I read first the <Reader's Digest story about the Touhys. And now I am hoping we have a reason to go back to Sam’s Club soon, so I can get the book. I will not see the movie until I read the full book. I have always been that way. I guess it comes from having been raised to appreciate books, and my adoptive mother felt that having a quality education was everybody’s right in life. And no, she did not think that a quality education was the same for everybody, but she did feel that each person had the right to learn how to think for himself or herself, and to be able to decide if a quality education meant college/university, trade/vocational school, or even OJT. But she believed that everybody deserved to use his or her brain to the fullest extent possible, and to have a quality education and training that permitted him or her to fulfill his or her dreams in life.

        Reply
    • 203. AndrewPDX  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:22 pm

      Toodles! Have fun being miserable by yourself; we won’t be joining you in your pity party!

      Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
      Andrew

      Reply
    • 204. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:31 am

      Oh Marcia, Marcia, Marcia.

      If I somehow magically had a chance to not be gay and instead, be someone like “you”, I would *so* not change a damn thing. :)

      Every time I run into “someone” like you, I am glad for who I am.

      It’s “people” like you who are the sad ones. And you know it in your heart. That’s why you’re here trying to dump your sadness and anger on everyone here.

      Didn’t work out so well did it? Wasn’t very satisfying was it? That’s because, unlike you, we know who we are. You? You’ve deluded yourself.

      You are not the first to come here shit on our nice carpet, and I’m sure you won’t be the last.

      Can’t say we’ll miss you.

      (For the P8TTer’s, forgive the obscene use of scare quotes, but I felt turnabout was fair play :)

      Reply
      • 205. AndrewPDX  |  August 21, 2010 at 7:46 am

        @JonT
        If I somehow magically had a chance to not be gay and instead, be someone like “you”, I would *so* not change a damn thing. :)
        Every time I run into “someone” like you, I am glad for who I am.

        Well said!

        Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
        Andrew

        Reply
  • 206. Trish  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Obvious troll is obvious.

    Reply
    • 207. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:57 am

      lol Trish, perfect timing!

      Reply
      • 208. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:06 pm

        Pam…get a grip. Act like a woman and not a butch looking thing.

        Reply
      • 209. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:09 pm

        I obviously need help with that. How does a woman act, exactly? Or are you only here to point out our flaws, not to help?

        Reply
    • 210. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:07 pm

      Trish…get a grip. Act like a woman and not a butch looking thing. You’re just a gross old lesbian with man hair!

      Reply
      • 211. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:16 pm

        Way to make friends, Marcia. Didn’t your mother ever tell you to say nothing if you have nothing nice to say?

        Reply
      • 212. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:18 pm

        And you are nothing more than a teen-aged boy with so many zits he can’t get a date to the Homecoming Dance.
        Don’t make me call Ronnie in on this!

        Reply
      • 213. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:21 pm

        And Marcia, I have seen pictures of Trish. She is a very lovely young lady, who is nowhere near the appearance you have so wrongfully depicted.
        And thaqt is so much more than I can say about you. If your physical appearance matches your attitude, you must make Medusa mixed with Broomhilda look gorgeous!

        Reply
      • 214. Sheryl Carver  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:25 pm

        Liar, liar, pants on fire!

        You said “goodbye” at 11:53 AM. Yet you are still here, Marcia.

        Reply
      • 215. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:27 pm

        Or to say it in Yiddish?

        Reply
      • 216. Trish  |  August 20, 2010 at 3:41 pm

        LOL! Thanks, Richard. Sometimes I even wear a dress! But sometimes I do feel like 30 is old. ;)

        Reply
      • 217. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 7:29 pm

        @ Trish: If you think 30 is old, wait until you hit 47. I’m so old, I can’t even remember if there was ever a summer when I was “Young and Beautiful,” to bring up the title of a Carrie Underwood song (I think it’s on her first CD, Some Hearts). But I always come to the defense of family, especially here, and when the trolls drop in.

        Reply
      • 218. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 7:31 pm

        Besides, with the pictures I have seen, Marcia was closer to verbally drawing a self-portrait than a portrait of you. I have a niece where the two of you could be sisters, and about the only difference in appearance is hair length.

        Reply
  • 219. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Hey, here’s an idea..why don’t you all go dig up your birth certificates and start acting like the person you were born. There’s a start.

    Reply
    • 220. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:59 am

      Why do you care so much about us? Or are you just bored and looking to waste some time?

      Reply
    • 221. Kate  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:00 pm

      Marcia, the “reply” area is spelled R-E-P-L-Y. Use it. I’m sorry to say your ignorance is showing even more clearly than most of the Prop 8 supporters who entertain us here for a while.

      Reply
      • 222. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:07 pm

        ah, rats; when MS left then came back, I thought she’d follow George’s pattern. I love this community’s responses to obvious folks.

        Reply
      • 223. Kate  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:11 pm

        Heck, that one didn’t last nearly as long as some of the others. Pity.

        Reply
      • 224. Kate  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:14 pm

        Too bad Straight Grandmother missed out on this one. Damned time zone differences!

        Reply
    • 225. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:14 pm

      And why don’t you actually grow up and stop attacking people you don’t even know, based on your own sick obsessions with something you obviously are NOT getting, and work on being the friend you want to have? I would strongly suggest you get your cranial covering out of your rectal opening and join the real world,

      Reply
    • 226. nightshayde  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:19 pm

      The people who are posting here ARE acting in accordance with the way they were born. You seem to think that people who were born gay should pretend to be something other than what they are.

      How sad for you. When, exactly, did you decide to be straight, Marcia (if you actually are, anyway)? If you actually are bisexual but have only allowed yourself to express yourself romantically with men, why haven’t you acted as your true self? Why does the shell of a person matter so very much to you. Isn’t it what’s inside that counts? That’s what I was always taught, anyway (along with that whole “you can’t judge a book by its cover” thing).

      I’m a straight, happily married woman who knows perfectly well that nobody can help who he/she is attracted to or with whom he/she falls in love. I also know very well that mutual love is a beautiful, magical, joyful thing — and to deny yourself the joys of true love simply based on the shape of your soulmate’s reproductive organs is silly.

      I’m guessing (though hoping for your sake that I’m wrong) that you’ve never truly known love. I’m not sure if you got married because you got pregnant, or if you got married because you thought you should, or if you got married so you would be able to fulfill your carnal desires without fearing out-of-wedlock pregnancy. If you really got married because you genuinely loved your partner, then you should understand why gays and lesbians want the same opportunity.

      Have you ever loved someone so much that you couldn’t imagine spending the rest of your life without that person? Have you loved someone so much that you want to take care of him/her (and have him/her take care of you) for the rest of your lives? Have you had so much love in your heart that you wanted to share it with others by raising a family? If so, you’re exactly like the people who are fighting for marriage equality, be they gay, lesbian, straight, or anywhere in-between.

      Perhaps you can find a loving church that embraces the idea of marriage equality. It might really help you if you were to hear equality-affirming interpretations of scripture from actual Christians (rather than the Christians-In-Name-Only who seem to think that civil marriage laws should be dependent on their narrow interpretation of scripture).

      I’m sad that you’ve been taught that stereotypes should be relied on, and that you appear to accept the hegemonic masculinity/enforced femininity beliefs so widespread in our society. I’m glad that my little girl will not grow up with the same oppressive outdated beliefs. I hope that if it turns out that one or more of your children has been/will be born gay, you’ll actually figure out the errors of your current ways. Heck — I hope that if you don’t have any gay kids, you’ll figure out the errors of your current ways.

      Here’s hoping you find your way out of the darkness and into the rainbow.

      Reply
      • 227. fiona64  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:36 pm

        ::applause::

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
      • 228. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  August 20, 2010 at 2:09 pm

        STANDING O!!!!!!

        Reply
      • 229. nightshayde  |  August 20, 2010 at 2:36 pm

        Is it weird that I just read my own comment and made myself weepy?

        If it is, I’ll just blame my tears on the brutal sinus headache I’ve had since Wednesday night. *sigh*

        Reply
      • 230. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 6:13 pm

        In all your jibberish…you’re STILL wrong.

        Reply
      • 231. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:34 am

        Yep, Standing O.

        Reply
  • 232. Ed  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Actually Marcia…..
    (and I’m not speaking for everyone here, just myself and my partner, of 4 years.)
    Have you ever seen a penis? I mean, really looked at one? Aren’t they just the most beautiful things in the world? The rock hard shaft, the flared head, etc…..
    But I digress….something could have happened in my growing up to mess me up….lets see….
    I have wonderful parents who were there for me every step of the way, they provided extremely well for my younger brother and me. I had great friends in and out of school.
    I had good grades….
    (Damn….*something must have made me gay….)
    Oh Yeah!! I know what it was…..
    I WAS BORN GAY!

    Whew, what a relief that I figured that one out….
    And bitch, please…..
    I don’t give a good god damn what the hell u do in your bedroom, but I’m not about to take your rights away….Who the hell made u the gatekeeper of Government Rights?
    Ed

    Reply
    • 233. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 6:16 pm

      Ed, you’re a moron. Dont you have some disgusting fishnets to put on and act like the woman you will NEVER be? So childish.

      Reply
      • 234. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 8:18 pm

        Actually, Marcus, the one who is pretending to be a woman is you, and you are the one who is being childish by refusing to actually get to know us and shed all of your inbreeding and the stereotypes that have been drummed into you that have caused you to refuse to acknowledge to yourself who and what you really are. Again, we will pray for you, and we truly hope that you get the help you need so that you discover exactly why you hate yourself so much that you need to tear other people down when you don’t even know them just so you can feel better about yourself. And hopefully you will find this help long before your pimples go away so that maybe you can enter adulthood as a well-adjusted, moral man who will be comfortable in his own skin and will not have to assume aliases and attack others who don’t agree with him.

        Reply
  • 235. Ed  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    Damn….I forgot….

    Bless your heart.
    (I’m from Louisiana)

    Ed

    Reply
  • 236. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    @ Marcia, because I’d bet $9 that you’ll come back to check just one last time, I’ll just repeat what I wrote above:
    sorry you lack empathy for fellow human beings. I hope your heart heals and you grow up spiritually.

    Reply
    • 237. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:27 pm

      I have a feeling that Marcia WILL be back, just as soon as there is another open computer at the local library. Marcia must absolutely HATE those time limits. It means she has to share with the other library patrons.

      Reply
      • 238. Michelle Evans  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:06 pm

        Richard, yes, and I wonder what Marcia would say if she found out that someone at the library, handling the very same keyboard before she arrived, was gay or lesbian–or heaven forbid–transgender! Oooh, she’ll get our cooties! Invasion of the Body Snatchers–LGBT-style.

        Reply
    • 239. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:15 pm

      I want my $9.00!!!

      Love,
      Pam

      Reply
      • 240. AndrewPDX  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:19 pm

        Te he he… you definitely called it!

        $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

        Sorry, that’s about the best I can do virtually :)

        Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
        Andrew

        Reply
  • 241. Bob  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Well I’m so happy to see that our friend Marcia has taken the time to let us know that this issue regarding equality, is one that disturbs her as much as it does all of us,

    The oppressors will need to be really pissed by the time they figure out it is no longer legal to discriminate.

    If we’re feeeling the emotional roller coaster, ditto for them, and rightfully so.

    HATE ON Marcia, get it out of your system, so you can learn another way of being in the world.

    Reply
    • 242. Kate  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:26 pm

      “Marcia” is nothing but a teenaged boy; the way the language is used and how his “concerns” are expressed makes it very clear. Too bad. We could all use some Prop 8 supporters old enough and intelligent enough to spar with us. Oh, what? If they had intelligence, they wouldn’t be Prop 8 supporters? Oh, yeah…. I forgot.

      Reply
      • 243. Sheryl, Mormon Mother of a wonderful son who just happens to be gay  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:03 pm

        Thanks for the laugh, Kate.

        Sheryl, Mormon Mother

        Reply
      • 244. Michelle Evans  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:08 pm

        Kate, you are most likely correct in “her” identity. Seemed like all “she” could do was keep saying the same garbage over and over again, like a kid: “Liar, liar, pants on fire!”

        Reply
      • 245. Kate  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:28 pm

        Yep — and some of it was simply cut-and-pasted from one of his posts to the next.

        Reply
      • 246. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:38 am

        Yeah, ‘Get a grip’ seemed to be the only thing he/she could say. Not very bright.

        Reply
  • 247. AndrewPDX  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    @ everyone on P8TT

    Thank you for responding to Ms. Smith’s inflammatory remarks for me. When I read her first post about “there is no harm done”, I was about to go ballistic… instead, I took an early lunch to calm down… by the time I got back, all y’all had done a wonderful job of intelligently and calmly rebuking her hate, all I had to do was say my ‘Toodles’ goodbye.

    Thank you for keeping me from posting something that I would have regretted later.

    P8TT ROCKS!

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
    Andrew

    Reply
    • 248. Kate  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:28 pm

      Andrew, don’t ever respond to them the way they want or expect. It just feeds them, and it makes you feel worse. It’s so much more fun to show publicly what idiots they are in other ways!

      Reply
      • 249. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 6:14 pm

        You tell them Butch KAte!

        Reply
    • 250. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:42 pm

      You’re welcome, Andrew. And she should really be glad Ronnie isn’t on here today. That would really have been messy!

      Reply
      • 251. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:53 pm

        LOL I do so love Ronnie and his passion LOL

        Reply
      • 252. AndrewPDX  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:55 pm

        Oh, I’m hoping our dear friend Ronnie does come on and then say all the things we would like to say… glad that it’s not me; my doctor would kill me if my blood pressure didn’t LOL

        Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
        Andrew

        Reply
    • 253. Marcia  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:32 pm

      You’ll get over it!

      And yes, I’m a STRAIGHT, MOTHER OF 3 STRAIGHT KIDS!!

      Reply
      • 254. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:40 pm

        Then grow up and act like one and stop being a yenta!

        Reply
      • 255. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:40 am

        You’ll get over it!

        And yes, I’m a STRAIGHT, MOTHER OF 3 STRAIGHT KIDS!!

        I was never under it.

        So… is your husband with his boyfriend? Is that why you’re here?

        And, hate to break it to you, but considering how you act, if any of your kids were gay, I really doubt they would ever tell you about it.

        Probably just counting the days till they can move out.

        Reply
  • 256. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Good point, Bob–and great timing, Marcia! It is really revealing that haters are stepping up the angry, intolerant rhetoric–they are so weak that all they have left is words (oh and poor spelling/grammar)….>:)

    Reply
  • 257. Dave in CA  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Gee, I am sorry to have missed all of that from Marcia. It really does disturb he, doesn’t it – I don’t think I have come across anyone so obviously disturbed in quite some time.

    Does anyone get a kick out of the H8ers use of quote marks? I think I am going to start using them as liberally and randomly as they do. To whit:

    Hi Louis, and bless your “heart!”

    Good morning, Ms. “Gallagher” – are we having fun yet? I really do “enjoy” your tautologies, keep ’em coming.

    Anyway, back to “Marcia” – yes, “she” is clearly “disturbed” in more than one sense of the word.

    Reply
    • 258. Kate  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:32 pm

      oh yes, keep ’em “coming” ……. ha ha ha!

      Reply
    • 259. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:38 pm

      “lol”

      Reply
  • 260. Hank (NYC)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Marcia – The world is made up of many different people – we celebrate the differences just as much as we celebrate the sameness. I guess in your little world, you are only exposed to the sameness. I guess you only have 1 church, 1 race, 1 grocery store, 1 missionary position, 1 road, and from the smallness of your experience 1 TV station (FOX) to watch. There is a big world out there that exists whether you want it to or not. And frankly – whether you agree, like it or even understand it – and it makes no difference if you decide what is right or wrong for anyone else using your personal morality.

    But you know what – that is just it – that is your own PERSONAL morality. It does not apply to all nor should it.

    This country DOES have a Constitution – mob rule has never been part of it. Marcia – you’re lucky Mob Rule didn’t apply to women when they won the right to vote and continue to fight for equality – if they hadn’t you would not have the option to express your opinion. And you know – that wasn’t that long ago.

    I think it was also written somewhere “judge not, lest ye be judged” and “thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself”.

    Love thyself Marcia.

    Reply
    • 261. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:42 am

      Well said Hank!

      Reply
  • 262. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  August 20, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    That poor misguided, uninformed young person. It saddens me to think she/he really thinks being Gay is somehow related to an identity crisis LOL
    I dug out my bith certificate…and sure enough it says I’m male (I went and checked…and yes my penis is still there)
    What my birth certificate fails to says is whether I’m hetro or homo LOL
    Guess when it was filled out I wasn’t acting ‘girly’…thank goodness or I might have been beaten to death like poor baby Roy.

    Reply
  • 263. RA in San Diego  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Marcia, Marca, Marcia…
    What kind of personal issues are you having right now? Forget loving you; I want to pick you apart psychologically–“pop-psychologically” anyway for the purposes of this blog.

    Lets start with a simple questionnaire:
    1.) Are you insecure in your marriage right now?
    2.) Does the thought of two men kissing or holding hands repulse you?
    3.) Do you enjoy sex?
    4.) Are you threatened by other women?
    And, NUMBER FIVE…do you hate other women?
    9 out of 10 shrinks agree, women that hate gay men, usually hate women. (Anyone that displays that kind of visceral hatred by describing a segment of society as “disgusting” has got to be feeling ashamed or guilty about something…I’m just sayin’)

    Using the Ted-Haggard-Larry-Craig-Meter-of-Self-Hatred; if you answered 3 out of the questions on this “survey”, then you are absolutely, positively, 100% GAY!

    Reply
    • 264. fiona64  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:37 pm

      Remember: scratch a homophobe and a misogynist will bleed.

      Love,
      Fiona

      Reply
    • 265. Marcia  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:35 pm

      Where did yoe read that from your HOW TO SPOT A GAY HANDBOOK? Not smart.

      Reply
      • 266. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:43 pm

        Actually, no. It comes from our experience with people who have internalized homophobia, and loathe themselves so much that they attack those who are secure enough in their own humanity and everything that entails to be able to live their lives without the need to demonize others based on superstitions and mistranslations, redactions and misinterpretations of scriptures.

        Reply
      • 267. AndrewPDX  |  August 21, 2010 at 7:50 am

        Ooo! there’s a Handbook? Man, that would have helped me through some very awkward situations. Did that get lost in the mail along with my copy of the Gay Agenda?

        Blasted mail system!

        Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
        Andrew

        Reply
  • 268. RA in San Diego  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Excuse me, “3 out of the 4 questions…etc.)

    Reply
  • 269. Sheryl, Mormon Mother of a wonderful son who just happens to be gay  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    Agree with Andrew that everyone did a wonderful job in responding to “Marcia.” And, in addition provided some much needed humor for me. Poor “Marcia” certainly made a lot of assumptions about people, and we all know what happens to people that assume (and believe me, I’ve been in that situation a few times).

    Sheryl, Mormon Mother

    Reply
    • 270. Kate  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:20 pm

      My guess is that “Marcia’s” real name is likely Michael. And “Smith?” Couldn’t he have come up with some more imaginative than that?? Well, I guess not.

      Anyway, Sheryl, can you tell us all a bit about what it’s like for you and any other of our Mormon supporters around the issue of Prop 8? I’m ashamed to say that I never thought there were ANY, simply by definition, until “meeting” you here…… Do you get harrassed a lot by the other Mormons? Inquiring minds want to know.

      Reply
      • 271. fiona64  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:39 pm

        Let me share with you the site where I met Sheryl.

        http://www.mormonsformarriage.com

        There are indeed Mormons who believe in marriage equality.

        Love,
        Fiona (who is not Mormon, despite having nice Mormon parents … and who found a lot of healing on this site herself)

        Reply
      • 272. Kate  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:44 pm

        Thank you, Fiona; I’ll definitely take a look at it!

        Reply
      • 273. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:54 pm

        And I want to thank fiona and Sheryl for pointing me to this site. when I have gone there, the stories I have read, and the comments, have brought so many tears of joy, gratitude, relief, and comfort to my eyes. So, Kate, you may want to have some Kleenex handy. And get ready for your heart to grow even larger.

        Reply
      • 274. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 6:17 pm

        Kate the butch…My name is actually Marcia Kemper, mother of 3 STRAIGHT kids. Who actually teaches my kids right from wrong.

        Reply
      • 275. Sheryl, Mormon Mother of a wonderful son who just happens to be gay  |  August 21, 2010 at 11:57 pm

        Kate, I can only answer the question for myself. Mormons are as diverse in personalities as the rest of the population. Personally, I have not felt discrimination but then I’m also not as active (mostly due to the fact I have a weekend job for financial need) so don’t see ward members that much. Some know that my son is gay, others do not. No one mentioned anything about our No on 8 bumper stickers at ward functions. Guess I should explain that a ward is designated boundary for church membership, a ward is part of a larger area known as a stake. During the campaign, we were not contacted for a donation (probably due to our economic status), I was really hoping we would get that visit so I could tell them why we would not donate. I also remained relatively quite until finding the Mormons for Marriage site that Fiona directed you to. That gave me the courage to be more outspoken, too bad I found it near the end of the campaign. I will have to let other Mormons speak for how it is for them in their wards.

        A really outspoken Mormon on LGBT rights is Carol Lynn Pearson. One should start with reading “Good-bye I Love You,” follow that with “No More Good-Byes,” and then her play, “Facing East.”

        What I find difficult to understand are the Mormons who felt that Prop8 was wrong but would vote for it because the Prophet and his counselors asked the membership to vote that way. A friend of mine said this was discussed in her ward and that was the general consensus of those who felt it was wrong. Just don’t know how one can do that. I understand the reasoning but still don’t understand how one can look in the mirror and feel okay with voting to take away a person’s rights.

        Not sure I’ve even come close to answering your question, Kate.

        Sheryl, Mormon Mother

        Reply
    • 276. Santa Barbara Mom  |  August 20, 2010 at 2:04 pm

      Ditto! I thought about responding but I didn’t want to ruin my day by allowing myself to get into an angry dither over some ignorant person without a clue!

      Reply
  • 277. Cat  |  August 20, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    The postings from our fearful-of-teh-gayz visitor actually made me look for a Bible quote. “He” works in mysterious ways, I guess. And voila, I found one:

    2 Timothy 1:7: “For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind” (NKJV).

    Yes, love! Yes, a sound mind! So use those brains to study the history of civil rights, the diversity of nature, the inner workings of the brain. Be not afraid! You’ll find that we’re quite friendly when you love us, and we’re actually not so different from you. Imagine that…

    Reply
  • 278. Dave P.  |  August 20, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    I can’t believe nobody has posted this yet –

    It’s always Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!!

    Reply
    • 279. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 4:44 pm

      Marcia (Smith) was really coming on to me, folks. That’s what this was all about. I’m surprised no one else could tell.

      Reply
      • 280. Ann S.  |  August 20, 2010 at 8:43 pm

        Marcia Kemper, you know you want me. Sorry, honey, but I’m taken, and I’m straight. Try to control yourself, sweetie. You’ll meet the woman of your dreams some day.

        Reply
      • 281. Marcia  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:43 pm

        Is that what you tell the women when you let them know you’re a actually a man(deep voice). Lol! You’re such a troll.

        Reply
      • 282. Ann S.  |  August 21, 2010 at 8:33 am

        Quit playing hard to get, Marcia.

        Reply
    • 283. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 6:18 pm

      I LOVE IT! THANKS YA’LL….LOVE, MARCIA KEMPER SMITH FOR YOUR INFO!!

      Reply
    • 284. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 7:27 pm

      I was trying to avoid connections with a show I loved to watch when I was younger. Especially since I had a crush on Robert Reed.

      Reply
  • 285. Mouse  |  August 20, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    I want to thank Marcia for the time he spent trolling here today.

    It’s great to have examples of how things like Prop 8 teach children that gays and lesbians are not “people.” He provided us with clear and concise evidence of what this fight is all about: small minded people want to lash out with hatred at the things they don’t like, don’t understand, and fear.

    Sure, he’s just one half-wit 12-year-old with an unsupervised Internet connection, but somehow society failed and he thinks it’s okay to treat people with the lack of respect he demonstrated here today. Why does he think that? Because animus-driven initiatives like Prop 8 told him it’s OK.

    Adolescence is rough. Your body is filled with hormones that make you crazy. Other kids pick on you relentlessly, and all you can do is look for someone weaker for you to pick on.

    On the Internet, it doesn’t matter how weak and pathetic you are – it’s anonymous and safe. You can be the biggest douche-bag in the universe and not have to worry about someone giving you the punch in the face response you deserve.

    Compound that with the confusion of discovering your own attractions are the sort that will make your parents throw you onto the street, and you end up pretending to be a girl flaming a bunch of queers as a way to make yourself feel a little bit better about the disaster that is your life.

    Rest assured, Marcia, no matter how hatefully you lash out at the people here while you go through what you are going through, we will be here to support you when you come to terms with who you are and need help.

    You are not the first homophobic homosexual. Thanks to the stigma our society places, that’s actually quite common. We’ll forgive you.

    You are not alone.

    What you are going through is difficult. Everyone here knows that and will support you when you need it.

    Thanks again for coming here. It’s easy for people to miss the cry for help and simply engage in the fights you pick, but don’t think they won’t love and accept you as soon as you love and accept yourself.

    Reply
    • 286. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 6:19 pm

      JIBBERISH.

      Reply
      • 287. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:20 pm

        I think the correct spelling is “gibberish,” hon. And I do not think the word means what you think it means, considering how you are applying it.

        Reply
      • 288. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:49 am

        CAPS LOCK.

        Google it.

        Reply
    • 289. Marcia  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:44 pm

      Get over yourself.

      Reply
      • 290. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:57 pm

        Actually, Marcus, you are the one who needs to get over yourself. You may think you are fooling people here, but that is because you have probably been home-schooled and actually know nothing about the real world. You would really do well to explore the real world and to make an honest effort to get to know people as friends, rather than use your bitterness as an excuse to attack everyone. But then, it is so easy to attack people you don’t know in a forum where your anonymity is guaranteed, and where you can hide.

        Reply
      • 291. Tom B.  |  August 21, 2010 at 10:52 am

        I want you to think long and hard about this Marcia. What would happen if one of your three ‘children’ came to you tomorrow and told you “Mom, I’m gay.” According to that book of fiction you call the Bible, you’re supposed to show unconditional love for your children. So, without lashing out, I want a straight answer. What would you do?

        Reply
  • 292. Chris in Lathrop  |  August 20, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    Kudos to all who stood against “Marcia”! Wish I could have been here for it all, as I’m feeling pretty snarky today.

    Going on vacation this week! I’ll be jonesing for P8TT. :( I hope something momentous (and good, of course) happens while I’m gone. See y’all Saturday-ish!

    Reply
  • 293. Marcia Smith  |  August 20, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    FIONA, KATE THE OTHER DOUCHEBAGS….You’ll all be holding hands and skipping to hell. Have a great time frying…morons.

    Reply
    • 294. lee  |  August 20, 2010 at 8:25 pm

      who are calling a douchebag??? your the one coming on a marriage equality site and trying to start crap. the douchebag is you if anyone. you and the prop h8 supporters need to stop trying to control people lives.

      Reply
    • 295. PamC  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:22 pm

      …oh, dear. Someone missed their naptime.

      Reply
      • 296. lee  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:38 pm

        your right, i think marcia has missed her bed time , after all, she acts so childish!!!

        Reply
      • 297. Marcia  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:36 pm

        Sounds like you have lots of time on YOUR hands Pammy.

        Reply
    • 298. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:51 am

      Oh Marcia stop. Now I’m just laughing at you.

      Reply
    • 299. Straight Grandmother  |  August 21, 2010 at 2:39 am

      Marcia, “You’ll all be holding hands and skipping to hell” Was it just me or did everyone just belly laugh when you read that statement? I understand because of the time difference the party is long over, but I couldn’t stop myself from adding a comment.

      I just have this visual in my head of Fiona & Kate holding hands and skipping. It is literally cracking me up. Lou, Lou skip to my Lou. Lou, Lou skip to my Lou. Skip to my Lou my darling.

      The statement from Marcia, “You’ll all be holding hands and skipping to hell” is hilarious.

      I wish Marcia well, after all s/he is just a child and we should not be too hard on children, they are not yet fully formed. I always believe there is hope for everybody. Like Harvey Milk said, “You gotta give them hope.”

      Reply
      • 300. AndrewPDX  |  August 21, 2010 at 7:53 am

        Yeah, that was a great image, SG. Marcia was great entertainment (after I got over my initial blood pressure spike)… sorry you missed it.

        Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
        Andrew

        Reply
  • 301. RA in San Diego  |  August 20, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    Marcia, shhhh…its time for bed now–that bottle of cheap Two-Buck-Chuck’s has got to be somewhere. Now pour yourself a glass, and think how it was when you first laid eyes on that beautiful girl in gym class all those years back…or was it in church? Those long toned legs in that pretty sun dress. Oh, how you longed for her, but couldn’t bring yourself to admit it.
    Now look at you, a miserable housewife with too much time on her hands, that trolls queer-friendly blogs hurling insults so she can feel better about herself. So, so very sad. Just one more drink, Marcia…good night.

    Reply
    • 302. Marcia  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:37 pm

      Cheers RA! You troll.

      Reply
      • 303. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:52 am

        Marcia, you’re doing it wrong. Google “troll”.

        Reply
      • 304. Straight Grandmother  |  August 21, 2010 at 2:40 am

        @ JonT another Belly laugh for me, thanks.

        Reply
  • 305. Sheryl Carver  |  August 20, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    Poor Marcia!

    If “she” really is who & what she claims, perhaps she should get some help, because she does sound more like an angry 15-year-old boy with too much time on his hands than an adult mother of 3.

    Poor kids, too, with a potty-mouthed mother. Fine role model there, Marcia.

    Reply
    • 306. Marcia  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:41 pm

      Fortunately I’m not a 15year old boy. Loved getting a rise out of all you creeps and wimps.

      Reply
      • 307. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 1:58 am

        Haha. I didn’t see that you got a “rise” out of anybody.

        Now, why not go pay some much needed attention to your “children”. I suspect they need it much more than we do.

        Even the gay one(s), who will never trust you enough to be able to tell you. How sad.

        Reply
  • 308. BGT  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    Just a simple post, and not probably related to everything else on here, but I do hope the Appeals Court upholds the original ruling. Yes, I am yet another married straight person who can’t see how gay marriage is threatening to anything at all, except maybe the tax base. But, that isn’t a good reason to hold back civil rights.

    So, from the buckle of the Bible Belt, Memphis TN, I wish all the supporters of Judge Walkers decision the best of luck, and even if the appeals court doesn’t give the right decision, hopefully someday soon everyone will have equal rights.

    Reply
    • 309. Dpeck  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:29 pm

      Thanks BGT! And it’s absolutely related to everything else here. In fact, thanks for getting this back on topic! (although I admit the whole silly ‘Marcia’ thing was a fun diversion).

      Reply
      • 310. Sheryl Carver  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:32 pm

        Yeah, it’s been awhile since we had a “sticky” troll. :-)

        Reply
      • 311. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 2:00 am

        (Homer): mmmm sticky troll.

        :)

        It will be interesting to see if there even will be an appeal.

        Reply
    • 312. Sheryl Carver  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:31 pm

      Thanks for your support, BGT.

      People of quality, like you, are not threatened by those seeking marriage equality.

      Reply
      • 313. Marcia  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:38 pm

        Not until you got on Trolli Sheryl.

        Reply
      • 314. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:47 pm

        Actually, Marcus, the only troll on here is you. And you are proving more and more with every one of your posts that you are NOT a straight mother of three children, but only an adolescent teenage boy who is scared that the bullies at school are going to find out he is gay, and beat him to death for that, because too many have used the sledgehammer they think religion gives them to beat others with to teach them that beating up someone because he or she is different is okay. Now, go to bed. I am sure your parents don’t want you up this late aggravating the adults.

        Reply
      • 315. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 2:02 am

        Not until you got on Trolli Sheryl.

        WTF does that even mean?

        Really, but the vodka bottle down and go to bed.

        Reply
      • 316. Straight Grandmother  |  August 21, 2010 at 2:51 am

        Sheryl, yeah that was one of the cooler signs we saw at the NOM counter Protests, “People of Quality don’t fear Equality”

        BGT- The buckle of the Bibile Belt, huh? Yeah my daughter lives in Virgina, where everything is “Yes Sir” and “No Mame.”

        When my daughter moved from Wisconsin to Virgina for her first full time teaching job after graduating from college she had to learn “southern.” One day we are talking on the phone together and she is telling me the differences of how things are down there and she says,
        “Mom did you know that ‘Ya’all’ is singular?”
        “What?” I replied puzzled.
        “Yeah, the plural of ‘Ya’all’ is wait for this mom… ‘All Ya’all.'”

        Reply
      • 317. Sheryl Carver  |  August 21, 2010 at 6:54 pm

        Hey, all, y’all – Richard, JonT, & SG!

        I don’t know what Trolli Sheryl means either, but I’m guessing the intent was not nice. Even though I learned long ago to ignore noise from people I do not respect, it is so wonderful to have people I’ve never met in person “have my back!” Wow!

        There are so many gifts from this site – brings tears to my eyes.

        Thanks to EVERYONE who contributes here! We truly are lighting many, many candles to illuminate the darkness.

        Reply
      • 318. JonT  |  August 21, 2010 at 11:31 pm

        ‘I do not respect, it is so wonderful to have people I’ve never met in person “have my back!”

        Any time Sheryl!

        Besides, Marcia was an amusing diversion :)

        Reply
    • 319. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  August 20, 2010 at 10:08 pm

      Thank you, BGT! Yes, what you have just posted here IS related to the post. And if the 9CCA rules that the D-i’s don’t have Article III standing and dismiss the appeal, that will leave Judge Walker’s ruling in place. And while it may change the state income tax base, it will be more than made up for by the B&O taxes on all the businesses that will see increases in their revenues from the increase in the weddings and those related expenses.

      Reply
      • 320. BGT  |  August 20, 2010 at 11:21 pm

        Richard, I said “maybe” the tax base, I haven’t researched that enough to have a credible opinion. But, taxation isn’t the point. Judge Walker’s point was clear (and I firmly agree with it), there isn’t a rational basis for having hetero marriage only. To hell with the “potential” economic implications, marriage is a fundamental right regardless of sexual orientation.

        Reply
      • 321. Lesbians Love Boies  |  August 21, 2010 at 12:31 am

        I always miss the whiny trolls. Seems like you all had a great day.

        Love you all.

        Barb

        Reply
  • 322. BGT  |  August 20, 2010 at 9:46 pm

    I don’t know if I am of “quality”, I just recognize bullshit when I see it.

    I do wish all of you happiness though, that should be something that everyone should have.

    Reply
    • 323. AndrewPDX  |  August 21, 2010 at 7:38 am

      I just recognize bullshit when I see it.… yup, that counts as “quality” in my book.

      Thanks for your support!

      Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
      Andrew

      Reply
    • 324. Ann S.  |  August 21, 2010 at 8:30 am

      Thank you, BGT. I’m another straight supporter, here in California. Thank you for your messages of support.

      Reply
  • 325. Doug  |  August 21, 2010 at 7:30 am

    scribin’

    Reply
  • 326. Carpool Cookie  |  August 22, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    I belong to another Internet board that has really good software that can pinpoint where someone’s posting from and can link it up with all the other posts they’ve ever made from there. They LEARN a lot about trolls that way, and start addressing them by their real name, mentioning their online likes and dislikes, organization affiliations, etc. Sometimes they upload real life photos of them.

    They freak out and disappear.

    Reply
    • 327. Iris Moore  |  August 26, 2010 at 12:41 am

      That does not sound like something we need to do Carpool Cookie. That’s sounds like something an internet stalker does and the people that write posts here and “classy” folks. Let’s enlighten people who are blind to the truth, that they become disrespectful as we all read the previous comments/replies by that woman. Let’s lead my example shall we?

      Reply
  • 328. CatMama  |  August 26, 2010 at 12:43 am

    Iris, I think you meant “are classy folks” and not “and”. Hehe
    I do agree though. Thanks for that.

    Reply
  • 329. Iris Moore  |  August 26, 2010 at 12:46 am

    Thank you, just noticed that. That cup of coffee hasn’t kicked in! Have a great night.

    Reply
  • 330. Caprice Schwark  |  April 15, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    What i don’t realize is in truth how you’re now not actually much more well-favored than you may be right now. You’re so intelligent. You know thus significantly relating to this subject, made me in my opinion consider it from numerous varied angles. Its like men and women aren’t interested except it is one thing to accomplish with Lady gaga! Your individual stuffs outstanding. Always care for it up!

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Trackback this post  |  Subscribe to the comments via RSS Feed


Support the Prop 8 Trial Tracker

Connect with us

Get to know your fellow Prop 8 Trial Trackers on Facebook.

Please send tips to prop8trial@couragecampaign.org

Follow us on Twitter @EqualityOnTrial

Sign-up for updates on the Prop 8 trial, including breaking-news alerts.

Categories

TWITTER: Follow us @EqualityOnTrial

Share this

Bookmark and Share

SITE STATS (by Wordpress)

  • 4,585,303 views of the Tracker and counting as of today...