Discrimination? Certainly not!

October 7, 2010 at 7:30 am 87 comments

By Rob Tisinai

My take on one of the most annoying and ill-reasoned arguments against marriage equality.

This is an open thread on marriage equality, yesterday’s conclusion of the NOM tour, or whatever else is on your mind.

Entry filed under: Videos.

Final day of the NOM California tour: If at first you don’t succeed, try again 37 times and you might corral a small crowd of Latino/a people It’s a NOM eat NOM world

87 Comments Add your own

  • 1. alaneckert  |  October 7, 2010 at 7:36 am

    I watched this yesterday on JMG. It is good, but I don’t think it is as good as your previous one with the Weebles.

    Reply
    • 2. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 7, 2010 at 7:45 am

      scribin

      Reply
      • 3. StraightForEquality  |  October 7, 2010 at 8:24 am

        Subscribing, late as usual.

        Reply
      • 4. Kathleen  |  October 7, 2010 at 8:34 am

        me too.

        Reply
      • 5. Ann S.  |  October 7, 2010 at 8:49 am

        Name-caller!

        Reply
      • 6. Anonygrl  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:02 am

        Bingo ball caller!

        Reply
      • 7. Ann S.  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:05 am

        hog-caller!

        Reply
      • 8. elliom  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:10 am

        Square-dance caller!

        Reply
      • 9. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:13 am

        Angry Weather Caller!

        Reply
      • 10. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:44 am

        OH MY GOSH! watch angry weather caller….choking with laughter!

        Reply
      • 11. elliom  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:55 am

        Verizon Bad Math Caller

        Reply
      • 12. Jonathan H  |  October 7, 2010 at 1:09 pm

        I click the box and I submit

        Reply
      • 13. JonT  |  October 7, 2010 at 1:46 pm

        I click the box and I submit

        Filthy box clicker!

        :)

        Reply
    • 14. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  October 7, 2010 at 7:56 am

      I really LOVED the one with Maggie “No, not that one…” The message is good, just not as catchy as the Maggie one…

      Reply
      • 15. Sheryl, Mormon Mother of a wonderful son who just happens to be gay  |  October 7, 2010 at 12:48 pm

        Gregory, just wondering if you were aware of these 2 events. got these from Carol Lynn Pearson’s newsletter.

        “Family Acceptance Conference. The Family Acceptance Regional Conference, will be at the Sheraton Downtown Salt Lake City Oct 8-10. The keynote speaker for the conference is Dr. Caitlin Ryan, from SFSU, who has done extensive research into the value and importance of Family Acceptance of LGBT family members. Information can be found at http://www.utahpridecenter.org .

        Special Workshop to Meet Crisis of Gay Suicides. Several gay suicides in Utah over the summer, five gay suicides recently in the national news resulting from bullying, and concerns about possible despair of young LDS gay people following a conference talk by Apostle Boyd Packer assuring them they were not born gay and can and must change have prompted the “Trevor Project Lifeguard Workshop Program” Friday, October 8 at the Utah Pride Center 1-5. http://www.glccu.com/news/center-news-and-events/item/97-trevor-project-lifeguard-workshop-program . Free. The life you save is that of your brother, your sister.”

        Sheryl, Mormon Mother

        Reply
      • 16. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  October 7, 2010 at 4:56 pm

        Glad to see you are plugged into PFLAG :D I loved your PFLAG sign at a VOTA bus stop!

        Yes, aware, planning to attend some on Saturday and Sunday…They dropped the price for whole conference to $25 so more can attend.

        Heading over to temple square in about 30 mins. with many others in demonstration… not necessarily against Elder Packer..but in support of our precious teens.

        Reply
  • 17. Phil L  |  October 7, 2010 at 7:38 am

    LOL!

    Reply
  • 18. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  October 7, 2010 at 7:40 am

    Exactly. They don’t see it as discrimination because then they would have to admit the truth–that we are as human as they are, and just as good as they are!

    Reply
    • 19. Phil L  |  October 7, 2010 at 7:44 am

      But remember what the “great” Maggie Gallagher said! It’s not discrimination to treat different things differently!

      I’m sorry… but it was really hard to say that without vomiting in disgust.

      Reply
      • 20. Bennett  |  October 7, 2010 at 7:59 am

        IMaggie must have been having some intellectual challanges when she said that. I think she meant to say “it’s OK to discriminate by treating different things differently, in fact that’s what discrimination is.” She just had a little verbal mistep when she tried to divoce the negative connotation from her particular brand of discrimination, mix in a little victimhood, and co-op the language of the opposition. Dang those traditional diffinitions.

        Reply
      • 21. elliom  |  October 7, 2010 at 8:01 am

        What gives her the right to redefine discrimination for the rest of us?

        *snark*

        Reply
      • 22. Bennett  |  October 7, 2010 at 8:02 am

        Their charter no doubt.

        Reply
    • 23. iDavid  |  October 7, 2010 at 7:46 am

      Right on Richard!

      Reply
    • 24. Rhie  |  October 7, 2010 at 12:10 pm

      Ding, Ding, Ding! WE have a winner!

      Reply
  • 25. Sagesse  |  October 7, 2010 at 7:44 am

    Subscribing from work… will watch later.

    Reply
  • 26. Bennett  |  October 7, 2010 at 7:52 am

    Straight people have the same right to enter into sham marriages as anyone else. In face, let me introduce you to my two lovely daughters. – Lot

    Reply
  • 27. Hank (NYC)  |  October 7, 2010 at 8:22 am

    So many people grow up learning hate and discrimination that it no longer seems wrong to them any more. This is where it is completely the parents, the church and the environment that is teaching hate as a family value.

    Maggie can’t see out of her little world far enough to see other ways of life are just as valuable and meaningful as her own. She can’t even take her husband’s name or give any recognition to the “traditional marriage” that she so vehemently is trying to defend.

    Maggie keeps on going on about behaviors – which it is clear she can’t control her own behaviors – how can she tell me to control mine.

    And if NOM were so concerned about “traditional marriage” they would be focused on their own divorce rate. If NOM was so concerned on the procreation aspect of marriage – they would be focused on marriages where child birth isn’t an option at all – as well as trying to force those in a “traditional marriage” to have their fair share of children whether they want to or not. WTH woman!

    Reply
  • 28. Hank (NYC)  |  October 7, 2010 at 8:24 am

    MMM I had another thought after seeing Orson Scott Card on the NOM Exposed site. I love sci-fi – but I will NEVER buy a book by this man.

    We should boycott his books…

    Reply
    • 29. elliom  |  October 7, 2010 at 8:36 am

      Me either. And I’ve actually liked some of his books.

      Oh well, time for more Mercedes Lackey. She likes (and writes positively) about gay ppl.

      Reply
      • 30. Anonygrl  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:01 am

        VERY true. I love her, and would recommend her to anyone who likes the fantasy genre, but probably especially to teenagers who need to read stories with positive gay role models.

        Reply
      • 31. elliom  |  October 7, 2010 at 11:37 am

        Particularly “The Last Herald Mage” series. Vanyal is SUCH a positive role model.

        Reply
      • 32. Anonygrl  |  October 7, 2010 at 12:06 pm

        The very story I was thinking of, although she does have lesbian Heralds in other stories.

        Reply
    • 33. Em  |  October 7, 2010 at 11:09 am

      I know! I was devastated. I am an avid sci-fi reader and have read nearly everything the man has ever written. I was one of his biggest fans in middle and high school and now I am just CRUSHED.

      For those lovers of sci-fi who wish to boycott Card without sacrificing excellent, well-written works of science fiction, I suggest Neal Stephenson. His work is grittier and more adult, but it’s some intensely absorbing and well-researched historical sci-fi. Truly fantastic.

      Now, how best to get the word out to stop buying his books and take note of what he’s up to…..?

      Reply
    • 34. Rhie  |  October 7, 2010 at 12:14 pm

      I wasn’t surprised to see that. He’s been getting more and more intolerant with age, unfortunately.

      I am going to stick to Terry Pratchett, specifically Small Gods. That book should be mandatory reading for anyone who is interested in the culture wars. It’s also just a lot of fun.

      Reply
      • 35. Chris in Lathrop  |  October 7, 2010 at 3:29 pm

        Drat! Seem to be missing my copy of Small Gods! Pyramids is a pretty good take on dogma, too.

        Reply
      • 36. Alan E.  |  October 7, 2010 at 4:20 pm

        I liked the Golden Compass series. I especially loved how nonchalant many actions were, like the bear eating a person and it being respectful (gotta read it to understand).

        Reply
  • 37. Anonygrl  |  October 7, 2010 at 8:58 am

    The ONLY thing NOM cares about, as evidenced by the mountain of literature, commercials, propoganda and lobbying they do, is banning same sex marriage.

    That is it. They do nothing else but work towards that one goal. Everything in their repetoire is angled toward making or keeping same sex marriage illegal.

    What shows them to be completely aware that they are in the wrong doing so is this talking point, taken directly from the NOM website…

    Language to avoid at all costs: “Ban same-sex marriage.” Our base loves this wording. So do supporters of SSM. They know it causes us to lose about ten percentage points in polls. Don’t use it. Say we’re against “redefining marriage” or in favor or “marriage as the union of husband and wife” NEVER “banning same-sex marriage.”

    Basically, they are telling their people that their supporters know, and love, that they are working to ban same sex marriage, but the rest of the world knows that discrimination is wrong, so be careful not to hint that that is what this organization is all about.

    If what you were doing was legitimate and good, you would be able to do it without hiding, NOM. You would be able to say, flat out, this is who we are, this is what we do, this is why we do it, this is who supports our work.

    Yet you persist in hiding behind phrases that are misleading, like “Gays and Lesbians…don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us.” You lie, “If courts rule that same-sex marriage is a civil right, then, people like you and me who believe children need moms and dads will be treated like bigots and racists.” You conflate ideas that do not relate to each other, “High rates of divorce are one more reason we should be strengthening marriage, not conducting radical social experiments on it.”
    You misrepresent issues to scare your constituents, “Religious groups like Catholic Charities or the Salvation Army may lose their tax exemptions, or be denied the use of parks and other public facilities, unless they endorse gay marriage.” And you attempt to pervert laws in many states (for example, the recent case that was thrown out in Rhode Island) that protect the electorate by preserving transparency in electioneering, allowing people to know where funding to candidates and their campaign advertising is coming from.

    When *I* support a candidate, if that candidate wants to put my name on the FRONT end of his advertising, and say “Vienna Hagen is a supporter of mine!” I am fine with that. Your supporters seem not to want to be associated with you publically. What does that say about you, NOM?

    Reply
    • 38. bJason  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:04 am

      Once again, out of the park!

      Reply
      • 39. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:21 am

        !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *SHAKING WITH INDIGNATION!* Murderers!

        Reply
      • 40. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:26 am

        I will think of you NOM tonight as I’m protesting with 1000’s of other at the Mormon World Headquarters!

        Reply
    • 41. AndrewPDX  |  October 7, 2010 at 10:52 am

      Well said, but I have to disagree with the first part… I truly believe the ONLY thing NOM cares about, is making money.

      It’s one big money-making scam. NOM knows there are rich bigots out there who are afraid to be labeled as such. NOM steps in and says “Let us do the dirty work — for lots of money”. NOM isn’t even above blackmail — when told they have to reveal their donor lists, NOM gets the rich donors to cough up even more money.

      It just happens that the rich bigots that line Maggie and Brian’s pockets are homophobes, so that’s where NOM goes. If it weren’t Teh Gayz, NOM would just have easily picked on some other group… maybe they’d work on Vegans or something.

      Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
      Andrew

      Reply
    • 42. Bennett  |  October 7, 2010 at 12:39 pm

      When I read this talking point, I always want to ask . . .

      What is it about the word ban that makes people support marraige equality by 10 percentage points that would otherwise want to ban same sex marriage.

      Doesn’t this make their supporters seem kinda wishy washy? If their conviction that marriage equality will lead to the end of civiliation as we know it, (or if they just wish to continue propogating discriminatory culture that enables deadly incidents of bullying), then shouldn’t their feelings about the issue be stong enough to be unaffected by a wee wittle word.

      Reply
  • 43. Ed  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:02 am

    Here we go again…..this time from Indy, Indiana.

    http://advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/10/07/Indiana_Commissioner_Arrested_for_Public_Indecency/

    Another Repub….

    Reply
    • 44. Dave in ME  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:45 am

      He is a Republican, but is he bad? Has he worked against us or just minded his own business?

      I wish we could get away from this thought that all republicans are bad and all democrats are good. Lately we’ve seen prominent republicans who support us. And, here in Maine where we are seen as a blue state, we still didn’t get enough votes to save our marriage equality law. There are plenty of dems that don’t support us.

      Dave in Maine

      Reply
      • 45. Kathleen  |  October 7, 2010 at 10:05 am

        If this man hasn’t been out there actively working to deny civil rights to lgbt people, then my only reaction is one of sadness for the life this man appears to be leading and the pain it is likely causing his family.

        Reply
      • 46. Ed  |  October 7, 2010 at 10:52 am

        honestly, i dont know his position on these issues. Point taken, i apologize

        Reply
      • 47. Dave in ME  |  October 7, 2010 at 6:48 pm

        Hi, Kathleen and Ed-

        My fiance was in the closet and married for 35 years and you are correct, it is painful and a truly terrible way to live. I can only hope that as humiliating as it is now for Mr. Miller now, it will be an opportunity for him to turn his life around, accept who he is, and lead a life of happiness and fullfillment like my fiance is finally doing.

        As for assumptions, yeah, it’s easy to do with all the hate we hear from that side!

        Dave in Maine

        Reply
    • 48. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  October 7, 2010 at 11:43 am

      No need to apologize Ed. Just added info that all GOP is not bad and all DEM is not good….that’s all :-)

      Reply
      • 49. Dave in ME  |  October 7, 2010 at 6:48 pm

        Tru dat, Mark M.!!

        Dave in Maine

        Reply
    • 50. BradK  |  October 7, 2010 at 12:55 pm

      “…faces up to 60 days in jail and a $500 fine for the Class C misdemeanor…”

      I believe he will have to register as a sex offender as well.

      Reply
  • 51. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:04 am

    Hey Everyone

    NOM removed the article from their press release section at nationformarriage dot com

    HA – they can’t hide. Google had already archived it!

    Reply
    • 52. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:04 am

      Sorry, the Ruth Institute article:

      National Organization for Marriage and Ruth Institute Join Bus Tour Suppporting Carly Fiorina in California…

      Reply
    • 53. elliom  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:07 am

      Of course they did. If they don’t see it, it doesn’t exist (much like their attitute toward conflicting ideas).

      This is all just a sham, so that when they ARE taken to task for their illegal activities, they can (try to) say “We did no such thing.”

      Reply
    • 54. Alan E.  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:13 am

      I love Google archiving. Those damn spiders can find anything!

      Reply
      • 55. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:31 am

        very cool!

        Reply
    • 57. Kathleen  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:13 am

      Make sure you’re saving copies of these. Never know when they might be needed!

      Reply
      • 58. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:15 am

        I have the source from the pages and screens of the google page, the PR main page and the article itself.

        Reply
      • 59. Kathleen  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:16 am

        Excellent.

        Reply
      • 60. elliom  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:19 am

        Kathleen:

        Anything we can do to help take-them-to-task for this?

        Reply
      • 61. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  October 7, 2010 at 10:30 am

        You ladies ROCK!

        Reply
      • 62. Wine Country Lurker Grrl  |  October 7, 2010 at 12:06 pm

        Might I suggest downloading and using “Cute PDF Writer”? It will let you “print” anything to PDF once you install it. It’s awesome for capturing things for posterity.

        Just saving the web page to your local hard drive creates source files you could then hand-modify and forge — or at least be accused of forging. Printing the original site’s page to PDF, and then also printing the Google archive to PDF creates lasting digital copies that can then be sent and stored anywhere you want (and even posted here, etc). Be sure to configure your browser’s Page-Setup to print the URL, and date of printing, and page numbers etc. to further establish the origins, timeframe, and content-length of the archived document.

        And for the REALLY serious, invest in a copy of Adobe Acrobat Professional. (You can get older, out of date, copies for cheap on eBay if the newest version is outside of your budget.) Acrobat Pro has a lovely feature that will spider a website and capture it all into a delightful single PDF for you.

        Either way, you’d probably want to eventually burn the PDFs to CD in order to preserve the timestamp.

        From what I’ve been told by a lawyer the above methodology should be sufficient to prove in court that the document being presented is a valid, unaltered capture of web pages and emails.

        Maybe some of the resident law professionals here can weigh-in on the matter and provide a more legitimate opinion on how best to preserve things for posterity. (The PDFs I’ve created in the above manner have not yet been presented at trial, so I cannot say for sure that my methods are solid — IANAL, just a computer geek who got hired to capture stuff off the internet before it disappeared.)

        Back to the shadows…. Hugs to you all.

        Reply
  • 63. elliom  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:09 am

    Another place they can’t hide. Web pages are archived at:

    http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

    It’d be interesting what’s there that they don’t want us to see.

    Reply
  • 64. Ronnie  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:25 am

    That was funny & exactly what the fundies sound like…they hate it when I point that out to them…<3…Ronnie

    Reply
  • 65. Anonygrl  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:29 am

    Just picked up this little gem from the bottom of the Ruth Institute front page…

    Every legitimate objective of gay and lesbian people can be met without redefining marriage.
    — Dr Jennifer Roback Morse

    You are absolutely correct, Ms. Morse (sorry, a doctorate in economics doesn’t impress me enough to call you Dr.). No redefinition of marriage is required at all. Simply allow gay and lesbian people to get married, and they will achieve their legitimate objective, and marriage is still the union between two people who love each other and want to commit to spending their lives together, and everyone is happy.

    So why are you raising such a fuss?

    Reply
    • 66. Bennett  |  October 7, 2010 at 1:18 pm

      I mean except the objectives of marriage, dignity, respect, and equal protection under the law of course – Bennett for Ms. Morse

      Reply
  • 67. Judy  |  October 7, 2010 at 10:01 am

    This made me want to see the “Not That Kind” animation again. For those who missed it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bCu2eGCjz4

    Reply
    • 68. cc  |  October 7, 2010 at 10:29 am

      I know what you mean. That ones a classic.

      Reply
      • 69. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  October 7, 2010 at 10:41 am

        I LOVE it! Makes me smile :D Rob hit it out of the ballpark with that one! …why a baseball reference…weird : /

        Reply
  • 70. Hank (NYC)  |  October 7, 2010 at 10:51 am

    Here is another Singer standing with us:

    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/10/07/Ozzy_Angry_Over_Margie_Phelps/

    Ozzy doesn’t want the WBC to use his music.

    Reply
  • 71. Ed  |  October 7, 2010 at 10:57 am

    from the AFA, regarding tyler clementi….this is beyond horrible….i really feel for clementi and his family….

    yan Fischer: Rutger’s death: answer is neither suicide nor hate crime law
    Date: 10/7/2010 10:19:12 AM

    Tyler Clementi, an 18-year-old freshman at Rutgers University, jumped off the George Washington Bridge on Sept. 22 after his roommate and a friend did a live online broadcast of him engaging in homosexual conduct in his dorm room.

    The two students responsible for this truly heinous act, Dharun Ravi and Molly Wei, both also 18, face up to five years in prison on an invasion of privacy charge. I hope they get the max. What they did is unconscionable to a disturbing degree, and surely a sign of our cultural decline and loss of traditional moral values. What they did is and ought to be unthinkable.

    They will never outlive the tragic reality that somebody killed himself in response to a terrible thing that they did. Demons will haunt them for the rest of their natural lives, long after they’ve left their prison cells.

    Authorities are also trying to pin a hate crimes charge on these two young adults, which would surely be a mistake. What they did was wrong, regardless of the sexual preference of the individual whose privacy they invaded. To punish them more severely just because of the victim’s sexual preference makes a mockery of the American principle of jurisprudence that every victim – every victim – deserves the full and equal protection of our laws.

    They say that hard cases make bad law, and that’s the danger here. The press for a bias charge in this situation is surely a naked attempt to advance not just the normalization of homosexuality but to make it the supreme sexual preference in our culture. If it deserves special protections denied to those who engage in normative sexuality, then it is being elevated to a place that no sexually aberrant behavior should ever receive.

    And surely the event suggests that Mr. Clementi was conflicted about his own sexual preference. Had this twisted young students invaded the privacy of a married couple in the same way, the man and wife would be angry and embarrassed, and want to see these punk miscreants punished to the full extent of the law. But are they going to throw themselves off a bridge? Of course not. Why? Because there is nothing morally objectionable about a man having sex with his wife. It is the one relationship in which sexual intimacy can be enjoyed with moral approval and societal endorsement. So a married couple filmed in the same way would be embarrassed but not ashamed.

    Mr. Clementi, on the other hand, was not only embarrassed but apparently deeply ashamed and consequently took his own life. There’s no evidence that I’ve seen that indicates that he was being bullied or harassed by others for his sexual preference. In some profound way, what he did was contrary to his own deep sense of what is right and what is wrong. He likely died full of guilt and shame, which is a terrible way to die.

    For those who find themselves in Mr. Clementi’s position, surely there is a better resolution to such inner conflict than suicide. No one is compelled to yield to dark sexual impulses, no matter how strong they may be. We are not animals, driven by a mindless sexual energy; we are human beings made in the image of God who are capable of sexual restraint and capable of redirecting sexual energy in healthy and life-affirming directions.

    Every form of sexual intimacy outside man-woman marriage, whether homosexual or heterosexual, is degrading, dehumanizing, and leads to what the Judeo-Christian tradition calls “the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves” (Romans 1:24).

    No sexual conduct outside marriage should receive society’s endorsement, or receive special protections in law, or be subsidized and normalized by government.

    What Mr. Ravi and Ms. Wei did is already against the law. We don’t need a bias crime statute to punish them.

    What Mr. Clementi did is tragic. But no other 18-year-old needs to repeat his terrible, self-destructive act. Change is possible, a change which offers the hope of normative sexuality, marriage, children, and a family to enjoy for the rest of one’s natural life. Let’s hope somebody in this situation has the courage to tell the truth to other 18-year-olds who may be tormented by same-sex attraction. There is a better way, and let’s hope other young men in Mr. Clementi’s position find it.

    Bryan fischer is a piece of shit

    Reply
    • 72. Alan E.  |  October 7, 2010 at 11:02 am

      We are not animals

      But we are animals!

      Reply
    • 73. Ronnie  |  October 7, 2010 at 11:06 am

      The organization has blood on their hands…they need to be prosecuted to the full extent…Homophobic un-American Nazi trash is all they are… >I …Ronnie

      Reply
      • 74. Ronnie  |  October 7, 2010 at 11:49 am

        Ok…I need to apologize..I’m trying to not use that “N’ word anymore. Its just reading that really pissed me off & it was a snap reaction that was clearly provoked by the insults & disrespectful judgements & assessments made by Bryan Fisher in that repugnant diatribe.The “N” word part is harsh…..Fascist is the word I should have used….Homophobic?….Yes they are & he is. I’m not apologizing for calling him that….un-American?….definitely, I am not apologizing for stating that….”They have blood on their hands”….100% true….like Anonygrl said….they are Evil people…its blunt but true….

        : I ….Ronnie

        Reply
      • 75. Elizabeth Oakes  |  October 7, 2010 at 5:38 pm

        Ronnie, you’re so cool to apologize for calling people Nazis, and it shows you understand Godwin’s Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

        This is not to say that sometimes the comparison to National Socialism is not apt, particularly when we’re talking about political forces who target certain populations due to religion, race, or sexual orientation. Fascism does exist and it’s always a danger in this world…and our culture is not immune to its threat.

        That being said, it’s always important to avoid namecalling if we can, no matter what the “N” word we use: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ns-kXeQCMk

        Peace.

        Reply
    • 76. Anonygrl  |  October 7, 2010 at 11:16 am

      What Mr. Ravi and Ms. Wei did is already against the law. We don’t need a bias crime statute to punish them.

      We do, actually. Mainly because if Tyler had been with a girl, Dharun Ravi and Molly Wei more than likely would not have even bothered.

      If the impetus for a crime is bias, the punishement should reflect that. Targetting someone because of a specific characteristic, be it gender, skin color, disability, sexuality or whatever is more serious than simply committing a random crime, as it is also intended to be inflamatory and to encourage further, similar acts by others.

      And you are right, Ed, the AFA is horrible. They use the “blame the victim” mentality, and should be (but sadly never are) ashamed, as they only serve up more bullying and harassment. Evil people.

      Reply
      • 77. fiona64  |  October 7, 2010 at 1:33 pm

        As I said to my “friend” Joshua over on Mormons for Marriage, upon relating how coyotes bring down prey much larger than themselves by constantly harassing the intended “meal” one at a time, dropping back and letting another pack member take over until the prey gives up from the constant harrying, it’s a pity that they don’t even recognize their own yipping voices in the canaille.

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
    • 78. Bennett  |  October 7, 2010 at 1:14 pm

      In other words, hate crime legislation would decrease the deterrant effect (effectiveness?) of bullying on dark miscreants like Clementi. Let me be nice about this. Rot in Hell!

      Reply
      • 79. Bennett  |  October 7, 2010 at 1:21 pm

        Figuratively of course.

        Reply
    • 80. fiona64  |  October 7, 2010 at 1:28 pm

      “They say that hard cases make bad law,”

      Who is “they,” Bryan Fischer? The voices in your head?

      This action was taken deliberately to humiliate and “out” Tyler Clementi. It’s a hate crime, pure and simple.

      No love,
      Fiona

      Reply
      • 81. Elizabeth Oakes  |  October 7, 2010 at 5:49 pm

        Right, they they don’t want a law on the books that will prevent them from waging further culture wars on gays, Jews, women, immigrants, or whomever else they want to target for their own gain.

        Sadly, it reminds me how the good ol’ US of A resists the International War Crimes Tribunal for the same reason. :( Everyone has to be held accountable for their crimes against humanity, even if they “win” the war.

        Reply
  • 82. Ronnie  |  October 7, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Dr. Phil Has a Candid Discussion with LGBT Teens…..One of his guest’s is Mark Idelicato (Justin from Ugly Betty)….<3…Ronnie:

    Reply
  • 83. Ronnie  |  October 7, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    Ok this is to Rob Tisinai but anybody else who knows how we can get this out there & into the media…NOM needs to be taken down…..

    since they have decided to take the reins of the Protect Marriage: One Man One Woman Facebook page & named Brian Brown General Manager…..not only has it been flooded with death threats & antigay trolls but their regulars have gotten very vocal & violent…..

    About an hour ago a thread was started on that page by Dustin Brian Lee Tenny:

    http://www.facebook.com/oneman.onewoman?v=wall&story_fbid=479449472462

    “The blood of these kids that killed themselves is on the hands of those who promote the Gay agenda. Suicide is never the answer. It’s not our fault that someone kills himself because he refuses to become a heterosexual.”

    all the admin has to say is:

    “Please keep in mind the families who are mourning the untimely death of a loved one”

    Other people have started threads that have called people derogatory names

    Is this what NOM stands for? Condoning Murder? Advocating Violence? Putting the blame of suicide on those who have been victims of suicide & bullying themselves? Calling innocent people derogatory names with out any provocation? Demanding that the government force people to be heterosexual? Demand that the government force ALL American to be Christian & follow Christian rules from a religious book written by man & enforced by man that is NOT the Law & violates other peoples 1st & 14th amendment rights, as well as Human rights?

    You NOM have just thrown yourselves onto your own double edge sword….congratulations for finally showing your true colors of red, black, & white…..It is you NOM that has blood on your hands…..SHAME!!!!!!!!…..

    If anybody wants to do something on this or knows somebody who would want to do something on this I have screenshots if you would like them…..This is completely unacceptable….That page has turned into nothing but a hate fest…& now it is attached to NOM….they need to be pushed off their holier-then-thou high horse….there is nothing holy about them….there is nothing good about them…they are 100% dark & evil….SHAME!!!!!

    X ( …… = ( ( …… : – & ……Ronnie

    Reply
    • 84. Alan E.  |  October 7, 2010 at 4:54 pm

      I started to read some of the posts. Then I started to get a headache in a matter of minutes, and I’ve been bombarded by Blue Angels all afternoon without getting one.

      Reply
    • 85. Elizabeth Oakes  |  October 7, 2010 at 5:53 pm

      You can report the page to Facebook as hate speech. I think there’s a link on the bottom of the page somewhere.

      Reply
  • 86. Paul in Minneapolis  |  October 7, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Rob, I loved this one even more than the one you did with Maggie and St. Peter — and that one was fabulous!!!

    Reply
  • 87. Ray  |  October 25, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Hi Rob, I just love your Leggo vids and I wish I could do them too. I have an idea for your next one maybe….

    Have you talked to her about the consequences?

    Sure NOM etc are done with that message in California but there are many other states that they have yet to invade with their poison. Nothing like sunshine to fight back with!

    OK, so at the end, imagine the same fantastic giggle that end’s the Eminem song My Dad’s Gone Crazy….

    [Scene opens]

    Rear view of little girl and Dad, shown from the rear, with girl reaching up to hold Dad’s hand… Title: Have You Talked To Her About The Consequences? {fades}

    Dad to girl: [sitting face to face] Hello. We need to have a talk about consequences. Do you know what consequences are?

    Girl to dad: [frowning] I think so.

    Dad to Girl: Give me an example.

    Girl to dad: When I don’t make my bed in the morning,. the consequence is that I can not watch TV untill I do it when I get home.

    Dad: Good!

    Dad: So you know that boys and girls grow up to be men and ladies, right?

    Girl: [looking confident] Certainly.

    Dad: And you know that men and ledies get married to each other, right?

    Girl: [confidently] Yes.

    Dad: So, what if ladies could marry ladies? Or men marry men. Would there be consequences?

    Girl: [frowns in deep thought]

    Girn: [Nods head confidently] Yes.

    Dad: Yes, there would be consequences?

    Girl [Confidently, smiling] Yes!

    Dad: What would the consequences be?

    Girl: [Smiling] They would live happily ever after!

    Girl: [Giggles]

    –Fin

    Well There ya go, just thinking about this script makes me laugh! Hope someone can make a youtube vid. Or, maybe I’ve just gone crazy… Yea….

    Reply

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