VIDEO: Minnesota “family” guy to bullied victims: Just nicely ask them to stop, duh

October 16, 2010 at 10:58 am 128 comments

Cross-posted from Good As You

By Jeremy Hooper

What does the National Organization For Marriage’s partner in Minnesota, the Minnesota Family Council, suggest that bullied LGBT students do to combat their situations? Well, MFC leader Chuck Darrell has a novel approach: He thinks the vulnerable kids should just march right into that school, stamp down a foot, and tell the bullies to stop making their lives and a living, lunch money-deprived hell:

You know, because that’s how it usually works. Diplomacy is a usual option. It’s not that the kid is picked on because he or she is smaller or different or in some way more susceptible. No, no — it’s because the victim simply hasn’t stood up enough. That was totally your experience in the American school system, right? [::eye roll, head shake, murmuring of word that starts like ‘bully’ but ends in ‘it’::]

Convenient logic, Mr. Darrell. But here’s what we think: We think that LGBT students would literally, tangibly, demonstrably experience a change in their tormented, “kick me”-signed state if groups like MFC and NOM would stop launching television campaigns against gay people’s simple right to love and would instead start focusing on how grown adults can steward a civil realm where all citizens are equally protected. Because ya know what? Kids internalize these messages. Even younger children who may not be savvy enough to understand political complexities hear the messaging, either directly or from the parents or family members or acquaintances who have adopted it. And it’s completely obvious how and sadly understandable why some who hear this kind of hostility proceed to interpret it as a pass. A pass to write off certain people as different or abnormal. A pass to tease these people as if they are animals in a zoo. A pass to taunt kids who are perceived to fit into a certain mold that they’ve been told is broken. A pass to vote, if not yet with a ballot then with a mean-spirited prank instead.

So you want the bullied LGBT kids of Minnesota to drive over to a responsible party’s house and confront a root of the antipathy? Well then, Mr. Darrell: What’s MFC’s address again?

***

*And of course, as G-A-Y friend Kevin Shannon just reminded us: Mr. Darrell is also comparing these victimized kids to a woman “caught in adultery,” with the justification for the non-stoning being that both the bullies and the bullied are “sinners.” So uhm. Yea.

Entry filed under: NOM Exposed, Right-wing, Videos.

Bullied to Death: A call to action for the rest of us (plus resources) NOM’s reaction to HRC/Courage IRS filing: “They’re trying to silence us and make it hard for us to operate.”

128 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Ronnie  |  October 16, 2010 at 11:05 am

    “He thinks the vulnerable kids should just march right into that school, stamp down a foot, and tell the bullies to stop making their lives and a living, lunch money-deprived hell:”

    Isn’t that interesting he should say something like that….since we, the LGBT & Straight Ally (of all races, nationalities, faiths, genders, creeds, & ages) community, also know as the Equality Community are doing exactly just that to NOM & the like……

    Do they just stop making our lives a living hell because we ask them too?…..The jury is in and the verdict is NO!!!…. 8 / ….Ronnie

    Reply
    • 2. Ronnie  |  October 16, 2010 at 11:06 am

      & stomping down my foot….oh I forgot to subscribe….<3…Ronnie

      Reply
    • 3. eDee  |  October 16, 2010 at 12:46 pm

      Jeremy Hooper is misrepresenting this video!
      Maybe Mr. Hooper should actually WATCH the video.

      Chuck Darrell is telling Christian parents to have THEIR children stand up to bullies and protect gay children!

      Isn’t that what we want?????

      Reply
      • 4. Ray in MA  |  October 16, 2010 at 1:27 pm

        Kids learn from example.

        Too many Christians provide a bad example to their kids.

        Too many Christians are following religous based extremists who portray GLBT as unworthy of respect.

        NOT A GOOD EXAMPLE!

        GET IT EDEE?!?!?!

        Chuck Darrell is following the recipe… pass on the blame to someone else.

        Adam Bink wrote this for you… read it carefully.

        http://prop8trialtracker.com/2010/10/13/are-you-an-anti-lgbt-conservative-did-you-just-sound-like-a-homophobe-then-this-piece-is-for-you/

        Reply
      • 5. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 1:35 pm

        It can be taken that way, I suppose. But, I don’t think that is what it says.

        If it does, that’s still a problem. First of all, standing up tp bullies like that, no matter who it is, doesn’t work. I don’t know why some adults keep saying it does. Bullies are criminals. Would telling the guy on the corner who is grabbing your purse nicely not to do it work? Of course not, it would get you in worse trouble. Same goes with the harassing, stalking, abusing that a bully does.

        Second, if that it was they are saying it is so hypocritical and full of denial as to make me sick. He doesn’t mean it. If he did, he would tell NOM to knock it off with the videos. He would knock it off with the videos and editorials. He would be writing response to Tony Perkins evil column in the Post. He’s not. He’s applauding it and joining in.

        Where was this video years ago? If he meant what you said he means, and he meant it in any meaningful way, he would be spending twice as much on ad buys featuring this message and others like it as he did on hateful ones during the 08 election.

        No, what is happening here is that he is seeing NOM and other allies getting rightfully called out as a bullies and criminals, and he wants to try to avoid that by appearing to be a good guy. That’s all it is. It’s the same as “I’m sorry I got caught”.

        Reply
      • 6. BobbiCW  |  October 16, 2010 at 1:38 pm

        The problem with your thinking — and that of Mr. Darrell — is that you assume that all Christian children are heterosexual. Have you forgotten that there are many good Christian LGBT kids out there who are being bullied?

        Reply
      • 7. BobbiCW  |  October 16, 2010 at 1:39 pm

        My above comment was directed @eDee.

        Reply
      • 8. eDee  |  October 16, 2010 at 1:56 pm

        @Ray in MA,
        Yes! I get it.
        Did you watch the video?!?!

        NO WHERE does it say that “GAY” kids should go into schools and stand up for themselves as this article implies.

        I’m on YOUR SIDE! More over I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID about setting an example. I was raised in Christian religious groups, I went to the rallies and until about 15 years ago I thought we should put all gays on and island and blow it up!
        I GET IT far more than you ever will!
        I have not only lived with those people I WAS ONE OF THEM! Do you GET IT?

        That video tells Christian Parents to tell THEIR children to STAND up to bullies. This article is grossly misrepresenting the message from the video. By misrepresenting this video we are no better than NOM.

        Reply
      • 9. Chris in Lathrop  |  October 16, 2010 at 2:00 pm

        @ eDee: I posted this below, and perhaps you missed it:

        No, he is saying the students are supposed to stand up to the bullies. Listen again at 0:00:47: “Can you imagine 5, 10, 15, 25 students marching into their schools and standing up against the bullies and telling them to knock it off?”

        Reply
      • 10. Chris in Lathrop  |  October 16, 2010 at 2:03 pm

        Drat, cut myself short…

        Kids standing up to bullies doesn’t work if administrators won’t get involved.

        Reply
      • 11. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 2:03 pm

        edee —

        I was one of them too. And I agree with Ray.

        Grew up in a Conservative Christian household, school, church, the whole nine. I believed that you couldn’t be a Christian and a Democrat. I believed that crap about love the sinner, hate the sin about LGBT.

        Obviously, I’m better now.

        And the video is implying that Christians are these magical straight crusaders who are so magnanimous for standing up for those poor LGBT students. Look how wonderful they are! We still think they are going hell, but look how awesome we are for helping them anyway.

        That’s if you put the video in the proper context of what else that jackass has said. And you need to watch it that way. Videos, speeches, etc out of context mean little.

        http://mnfamilycouncil.blogspot.com/ – read the first post on that page, then watch the video again, and let me know if you still think he means anything by it.

        Reply
      • 12. Todd Gibson  |  October 16, 2010 at 3:57 pm

        Yes. Mr. Darrell is advocating that Christian children go, as a group, to the bully and demand they stop bullying. A very good idea.
        But, if that doesn’t happen, there should be other actions that protect all those who are bullied. Teachers, administration, parents and other adults should also take a vocal and visable action against bullying.
        Plain and simple solution; bullying should not be tolerated at all, and it should be the norm that children and adults step in to stop it immediately when it rears it’s ugly head.

        Reply
    • 13. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 1:26 pm

      I seem to remember a letter that said JUST THAT…that the pro-bullying side labelled as bullying.

      And I completely sick to death of the “well everyone sins!” excuse. Not all wrong-doing is created equal. Not all actions that these idiots thing are “sin” or wrong actually are.

      Reply
      • 14. eDee  |  October 16, 2010 at 3:43 pm

        I think we all agree that Minnesota Family Council is an anti-gay organization – Right?
        I think we can all agree that this video is little more than an attempt to make themselves look like a hero and a non-bigoted group – Right?
        We are all aware that standing up to bullies is quite pointless – Right?

        But unless you use an exaggerated sense of implied meaning, this video does not tell Gay kids to stand up to bullies as stated in this article.

        Quote from the top of the article “Minnesota Family Council, suggest that bullied LGBT students do to combat their situations? Well, MFC leader Chuck Darrell has a novel approach: He thinks the vulnerable kids should just march right into that school, stamp down a foot, and tell the bullies to stop making their lives and a living, lunch money-deprived hell:”

        MFC is not a Right or Just organization, but if we imply our own views and meanings on to their video we are no better.

        This article misrepresents the posted video – regardless of the intention of the video, it is still misrepresented.

        Reply
      • 15. eDee  |  October 16, 2010 at 3:44 pm

        PS that was @all of the above.
        Takes to long to write comment after comment.
        I’m off to watch Scooby Doo with my kids, I’ll see you all in a few hours.

        Reply
      • 16. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 3:53 pm

        I wasn’t saying anything about that in this comment, actually.

        I don’t think the video was actually misrepresented. Even if it was, and your version is right, it is still troubling and hypocritical in light of what else that organization does. Context matters.

        Reply
    • 17. JonT  |  October 16, 2010 at 3:44 pm

      No Ronnie, what they do is laughably call us ‘bullies’, in line with their “we’re the victim” mentalities.

      These pathetic ‘Family Values’ people are so lost.

      Reply
  • 18. Ann S.  |  October 16, 2010 at 11:14 am

    What a bunch of maroons.

    Reply
  • 19. BK  |  October 16, 2010 at 11:15 am

    I always have wanted to get into a bully’s head… just what are they thinking?

    Reply
    • 20. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 2:08 pm

      The same thing any sociopath is thinking: they are the center of the world, and everyone else is there for their amusement. If you have no empathy, amusement can take the form of cruelty toward others.

      Reply
  • 21. Sagesse  |  October 16, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Hoping MFC and NOM get their butts handed to them on Nov 2.

    Reply
  • 22. JT1962  |  October 16, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Just one thing came to my mind when I watched this video: We’ve been trying to do just that now for at least several months and NOM (and its offshoot groups) are now stating that WE are the bullies. So tell me, how exactly do we do this again? And how do you spin whatever our actions are into something positive for us this time? Oh yeah…you can’t and won’t because we aren’t you and we’ll never be what you want us to be…invisible.

    Reply
  • 23. alaneckert  |  October 16, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Oh so that’s all it takes? Rational reasoning while your face is being pummeled?

    Reply
    • 24. Tomato  |  October 16, 2010 at 11:50 am

      I tried that lots of times.

      Didn’t work.

      Reply
    • 25. Carpool Cookie  |  October 16, 2010 at 8:38 pm

      Maybe it’s a “third time’s the charm” sort of deal?

      Reply
  • 26. gaychristian  |  October 16, 2010 at 11:57 am

    If you listen to the video, he is not saying that the kids being bullied are supposed to do this- he’s encouraging Christian families to have their children speak up when they see bullying.
    This article is twisting his words. Listen to his words.

    Reply
    • 27. bJason  |  October 16, 2010 at 12:46 pm

      He is telling “Christian” families to encourage their kids to march in and stand up to the bullies – sounds great. But, Christian kids ARE the bullies! They learn that it is ok to bully from their bully preachers and their bully parents and our bully government who tell them that being gay is an abomination and that gays are second class citizens. Christian parents and leaders AND OUR GOVERNMENT should, themselves, stop being bullies.

      Nice try! Next?

      Reply
      • 28. JonT  |  October 16, 2010 at 3:57 pm

        +1 !

        Reply
    • 29. Chris in Lathrop  |  October 16, 2010 at 12:50 pm

      No, he is saying the students are supposed to stand up to the bullies. Listen again at 0:00:47: “Can you imagine 5, 10, 15, 25 students marching into their schools and standing up against the bullies and telling them to knock it off?”

      I’m all for people learning to stand up for themselves, but we’re talking usually bigger kids prone to violence, and often with the victims usually badly outnumbered. And bullies are usually the type to gather a couple friends and catch one or two kids off by themselves. Chuck Darrell’s suggestions are highly impractical at best, and could have as dire consequences as the status quo.

      The only good thing he said was about focusing on bullies’ behavior.

      Reply
    • 30. Ray in MA  |  October 16, 2010 at 1:29 pm

      See above Post for Edee:

      Kids learn from example.

      Too many Christians provide a bad example to their kids.

      Too many Christians are following religous based extremists who portray GLBT as unworthy of respect.

      NOT A GOOD EXAMPLE! Get it?!?!

      Chuck Darrell is following the recipe… pass on the blame to someone else.

      Adam Bink wrote this for you… read it carefully.

      http://prop8trialtracker.com/2010/10/13/are-you-an-anti-lgbt-conservative-did-you-just-sound-like-a-homophobe-then-this-piece-is-for-you/

      Reply
    • 31. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 2:10 pm

      See my answer above to eDee as to why that won’t work either, and why he doesn’t really mean it anyway.

      Reply
    • 32. Michael Ejercito  |  October 18, 2010 at 12:16 pm

      He is telling “Christian” families to encourage their kids to march in and stand up to the bullies – sounds great. But, Christian kids ARE the bullies! They learn that it is ok to bully from their bully preachers and their bully parents and our bully government who tell them that being gay is an abomination and that gays are second class citizens. Christian parents and leaders AND OUR GOVERNMENT should, themselves, stop being bullies.

      Really?

      Name one example of a preacher preaching that it is okay to bully homosexuals.

      Reply
      • 33. Kathleen  |  October 18, 2010 at 12:24 pm

        I’d say calling for killing gay people represents a form of bullying
        http://www.signorile.com/2009/09/steven-l-anderson-killing-gays-is-not.html

        There are lots of examples if you care to look for them.

        Reply
      • 34. Ronnie  |  October 18, 2010 at 12:27 pm

        Pretty much every single one that is anti-gay…really what fantasy world are you living?….. : I …Ronnie

        Reply
      • 35. Ronnie  |  October 18, 2010 at 12:36 pm

        that was to Ejercito…& supposed end with…. : I (grimace face)….

        <3…Ronnie

        Reply
      • 36. Anonygrl  |  October 18, 2010 at 12:59 pm

        Boyd Packer. Lou Engles. There are two, quickly, off the top of my head. I could come up with hundreds more with less than ten minutes research online.

        And no, they don’t say the words “Go bully gay kids,” but what they do say clearly implies and thematically encourages it.

        Reply
      • 37. Michael Ejercito  |  October 18, 2010 at 6:15 pm

        Pretty much every single one that is anti-gay…really what fantasy world are you living?….. : I …Ronnie

        That is not true.

        I have read tracts by Jack Chick . In some of his tracts and other articles, he makes it clear that only his kind of Christians go to Heaven. (At least two tracts outright state that some people are condemned to Hell just for being devout Catholics.)

        Obviously, chick has a different moral view that the Roman Catholic Church, which states that there is no salvation outside of the Church of Rome. (And it should be clear that he has a different moral view than many of you posting here.) And yet, Jack Chick never implied it was okay to bully or harass Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc.

        Reply
      • 38. Ronnie  |  October 18, 2010 at 6:33 pm

        Of course you don’t think that’s true because you’re a Fascist pig who thinks you have a right to control other people’s personal lives & force them to live their lives according to your beliefs & definitions …The FACT of the matter is….that its not the law…NO religious scripture is the law & there is NO law that says I have to follow any of them…. I don’t believe in “Hell” so therefore I am not going there…& you can’t prove otherwise…& I have the right to be offended by somebody disrespecting me in that regard….Get over it… >( ….Ronnie

        Reply
      • 39. Rhie  |  October 18, 2010 at 10:18 pm

        Oh, only every single time they say that the homosexuals are evil, wrong, bad, and not really human.

        Reply
      • 40. Rhie  |  October 18, 2010 at 10:21 pm

        To add to Anonygrl’s list

        Tony Perkins
        James Dobson
        Jerry Fallwell
        Dr Laura
        Rick Warren
        Pat Robertson
        Concerned Women for America
        Focus on the Family
        Family Research Council

        etc.

        Reply
      • 41. Michael Ejercito  |  October 18, 2010 at 11:40 pm

        Of course you don’t think that’s true because you’re a Fascist pig who thinks you have a right to control other people’s personal lives & force them to live their lives according to your beliefs & definitions …The FACT of the matter is….that its not the law…NO religious scripture is the law & there is NO law that says I have to follow any of them…. I don’t believe in “Hell” so therefore I am not going there…& you can’t prove otherwise…& I have the right to be offended by somebody disrespecting me in that regard….Get over it… >( ….Ronnie

        Not everyone who preaches that homosexual intercourse is immoral condones or promotes intimidation or harassment of anyone on the basis of sexual orientation.

        Reply
      • 42. Michael Ejercito  |  October 18, 2010 at 11:41 pm

        And no, they don’t say the words “Go bully gay kids,” but what they do say clearly implies and thematically encourages it.

        What do they say that encourages bullying? Show quotes.

        Reply
      • 43. Ronnie  |  October 19, 2010 at 12:06 am

        Go away you homophobic, un-American, Fascist porcine…pretty much all of them do…they fester it….they enable it…but you will never agree with that because you are one of them…shame on you…get off your high horse Ejercito…you are so dense…you obviously didn’t read a damn thing we said & you obviously are incapable of comprehending it…& that entire drivel of a sentence by you, you benighted troglodyte, is an oxyMORON….shu…shu…. >( …Ronnie

        Reply
      • 44. Michael Ejercito  |  October 19, 2010 at 10:45 am

        Go away you homophobic, un-American, Fascist porcine…pretty much all of them do…they fester it….they enable it…but you will never agree with that because you are one of them…shame on you…get off your high horse Ejercito…you are so dense…you obviously didn’t read a damn thing we said & you obviously are incapable of comprehending it…& that entire drivel of a sentence by you, you benighted troglodyte, is an oxyMORON….shu…shu…. >( …Ronnie

        Show quotes from the following people and organizations that condone or promote bullying of anyone.

        Tony Perkins
        James Dobson
        Jerry Fallwell
        Dr Laura
        Rick Warren
        Pat Robertson
        Concerned Women for America
        Focus on the Family
        Family Research Council

        Reply
      • 45. Ronnie  |  October 19, 2010 at 11:07 am

        Been there done that…its been posted all over this blog….stop wasting our time with your desire to be a troll as well as wasting the one life given to you on destroying the lives of others…Get over yourself….even if we did point it out to you…you would say its a lie because you agree with porcine’s like them.. I am disinclined to acquiesce to your request because you never answer a god-damn question asked of you unless it applies to bowing down to you…I mean your autocratic & theocratic un-American, beliefs & definitions….all you do is post copy & paste talking points because you are demonstrably au fond incapable of thinking for yourself, Michael Ejecito….good day sir….I SAID GOOD DAY!!!!….

        8 / ….Ronnie

        Reply
      • 46. fiona64  |  October 19, 2010 at 11:23 am

        Michael, I’m going to hurt your feelings big time.

        Every time one of these people makes one of their hate-filled statements, people like YOU feel that their bigotry is righteous and that it’s okay to beat up gay people. According to the FBI, the single largest growing group of hate crime victims is GLBT people, and the crimes increase every time something like Prop 8 makes the news.

        Here’s your list; my quotes will be attached, along with the source:

        Tony Perkins – Some homosexuals may recognize intuitively that their same-sex attractions are abnormal–yet they have been told by the homosexual movement, and their allies in the media and the educational establishment, that they are “born gay” and can never change. This–and not society’s disapproval–may create a sense of despair that can lead to suicide. (Washington Post, 10/11/10)

        James Dobson (you do know he’s synonymous with Focus on the Family, right?)

        Jerry Falwell (spelling corrected – this is a series of quotes from Wiki, with the source footnotes) – In urging the repeal of the ordinance, Falwell told one crowd, “Gay folks would just as soon kill you as look at you.”[31] When the mostly LGBT Metropolitan Community Church was almost accepted into the World Council of Churches, Falwell called them “brute beasts” and stated, “this vile and satanic system will one day be utterly annihilated and there’ll be a celebration in heaven.”[32] He later denied this, but was successfully sued over the remark.[33] Falwell also regularly linked the AIDS pandemic to LGBT issues and stated, “AIDS is not just God’s punishment for homosexuals, it is God’s punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.”[34

        And just a little more from Falwell, with Robertson’s concurrence (I saw this on TV myself and sat there with my jaw hanging open): After the September 11, 2001 attacks, Falwell said on The 700 Club, “I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say ‘you helped this happen.'” Fellow evangelist Pat Robertson concurred with his sentiment.[46]

        Dr Laura – “I’m sorry, hear it one more time perfectly clearly: If you’re gay or a lesbian, it’s a biological error that inhibits you from relating normally to the opposite sex. The fact that you are intelligent, creative and valuable is all true. The error is in your inability to relate sexually intimately, in a loving way to a member of the opposite sex – it is a biological error.” Quoted from Dr. Laura’s Website, 1998-DEC-8 (as cited on ReligiousTolerance dot org)

        Rick Warren – Website used to specifically ban gay people from attending Saddleback Church — until he got in hot water from the bad publicity. http://www.americablog.com/2008/12/rick-warren-pulls-anti-gay-language.html

        Pat Robertson – “I would warn Orlando that you’re right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don’t think I’d be waving those flags in God’s face if I were you, This is not a message of hate — this is a message of redemption. But a condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It’ll bring about terrorist bombs; it’ll bring earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor.” –Pat Robertson, on “gay days” at Disneyworld

        And another good one: “(T)he feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.” –Pat Robertson

        You also know that everyone you list here was named to the Council for National Policy back in 1981, which was headed by RJ Rushdoony? You know, the guy from Chalcedon who thinks that homosexuality should be punished by death?

        Concerned Women for America – CWA’s anti-gay work covers many issues, from supporting the Boy Scouts of America ban against gay participants, to opposing any openly gay people in President Bush’s administration. CWA has been active in opposing any and all gay and lesbian civil rights measures, including supporting the right to discriminate against gays and lesbians in employment. CWA supports the “Truth in Love” campaign that says that homosexuality is a sin and claims gays and lesbians can become “straight” through “the love of Jesus Christ.” CWA established the Culture and Family Institute (CFI) to combat gay and lesbian civil rights. Robert H. Knight, a long time anti-gay crusader, leads the Culture and Family Institute.

        Focus on the Family – # Scriptures against homosexual behavior – including Leviticus 18:22, 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; 1 Timothy 1:9-10 – are so clear and specific that they defy reinterpretation. It is intellectually dishonest to say that conservative individuals and leaders “interpret” such clear verses as “Thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman” out of prejudice against homosexuals and use them for selfish gain.
        # Homosexuality in Leviticus, Romans, 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy is mentioned in the wider context of sexual, immoral and prohibited behaviors, casting doubt on the argument that Scriptures condemning homosexuality have been taken out of context.(Their own website)

        Family Research Council – Pro-homosexual activists also promote policies that forbid “discrimination” against students or teachers on the basis of “sexual orientation.”

        However, singling out “sexual orientation” for special protection (along with the usual categories of “race, color, national origin, sex, and disability”) is illogical. The latter qualities are usually inborn, involuntary, immutable, and innocuous — none of which is true of homosexual behavior, despite the claims of its advocates. (from their own website)

        Reply
      • 47. fiona64  |  October 19, 2010 at 11:26 am

        Only one?

        Easy-peasy.

        Elder Boyd K. Packer, of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, in a pamphlet called “To Young Men Only.” http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/sexuality/packer_young.htm

        Quote:

        There are some men who entice young meant to join them in these immoral acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.

        While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said he had something to confess. I was very worried because he just could not get himself to tell me what he had done.

        After patient encouragement he finally blurted out, “I hit my companion.”

        “Oh, is that all,” I said in great relief.

        “But I floored him,” he said.

        After learning a little more, my response was “Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn’t be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way”

        I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself.

        Reply
      • 48. fiona64  |  October 19, 2010 at 11:29 am

        Michael, your points have all been refuted.

        Repeatedly.

        I don’t know whether you think that behaving this way makes you into a “big man” or something, but you know something? It doesn’t. It just shows what a frightened little person you are.

        What are you afraid of, Michael? That you saw Gerard Butler in “300” and went “Damn, he’s hot?” (God knows I did …). That you just might be gay yourself?

        The reason that I ask is that there are numerous controlled studies that demonstrate the most vocal homophobes are the ones who are actually deeply closeted gay men.

        Want a recent example of the proof?

        George Rekers.

        Whatever lifts your luggage, Michael.

        Reply
      • 49. Rhie  |  October 19, 2010 at 2:15 pm

        You want to know, you go look it up. It’s not my job to educate you.

        Reply
      • 50. Rhie  |  October 19, 2010 at 2:34 pm

        Wow Fiona you have way more patience than I do. I am going to C&P that myself, but I fear your list lands on deaf ears in Michael and his ilk. They just say that since no preacher specifically said to tie a gay boy to a post and throw rocks at his head those preachers aren’t responsible for his death.

        Focus on the Family forgot one in their list of qualities that can’t be discriminated against: religious belief. Probably because it doesn’t fit nicely in their list of immutable characteristics. People choose religion, and it is protected under law. So, even if LGBT WAS a choice that wouldn’t disqualify it from protection under the law.

        As far as the literalism, that breaks down as soon as I bring up obvious verses such as Do not judge, Love your neighbor, feed the widow and the orphan. That last is explicitly stating that people who don’t help the poor don’t go to heaven. Yet, those don’t actually MEAN what they explicitly state to so-called literalists.

        Reply
  • 51. wedgie  |  October 16, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Is he really that old that he has forgotten all the wedgies he got in junior high schools after asking bullies “please don’t give me another wedgie” ?

    Reply
  • 52. Kathleen  |  October 16, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    subscribing, then coffee.

    Reply
  • 53. eDee  |  October 16, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    The video is telling Christian parents to have their children basically defend LGBT children by standing up to the bullies.
    He even goes as far to say that the reason the child is being bullied shouldn’t be the issue, but the bullying itself – the reason shouldn’t matter.
    I’d think that is what we want – right? Gay/straight we’re all the same – right?

    Am I reading this article wrong?
    The video is called: “MFC calls on Christian parents to encourage their children to stand up to bullies in public schools.”
    It’s assumed that Christian parents would never have a gay child (eye roll – head shake!) So he is not telling Christian parents to have their gay children stand up to bullies! lol

    I think they are sending the wrong message – standing up to them is only going to provoke the issue. I tell my child that standing up to a bully is the last resort, but of course she is 6 and a gust of wind could blow her away.
    Adults standing up for what they believe in is different, we have a full understanding of what may happen, a child does not.

    The message is wrong, but not for the reasons I’m seeing in this article.

    Reply
    • 54. allen  |  October 16, 2010 at 12:55 pm

      You can’t address a problem without getting to the root of the problem, and this message is suggesting the root should be ignored. According to this message, we should not question why the bullying occurs, which I believe is a dangerous proposition for these children.

      There are too many wrong messages in this short video.

      Reply
      • 55. eDee  |  October 16, 2010 at 2:15 pm

        @allen “….this message is suggesting the root should be ignored. According to this message, we should not question why the bullying occurs…”
        I agree. The root issue can’t be ignored. I was raised in “Christian speak” and I can tell you Christian parent’s aren’t going to tell their children to defend gays in public school – they are far too brain washed.

        The only way to get this message across to Christian parents is to tell them that they should ignore the reason and raise our children to defend everyone. Think of Christians as children who don’t fully understand the world around them, because, sadly, for the most part, that’s what they are. The Bible even tells us to think like a child!
        15 years ago, I was a hater. Then one brilliant gay man broke it down for me in small child like terms. Christians do this to each other, that’s why NOM has such power. Have you ever heard them say anything intelligent? Nope! Because they don’t have too, they know all they need to do is break their point into little nuggets and feed it to their flock.
        It’s sad, but true.

        Reply
      • 56. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 3:26 pm

        But, he isn’t telling people to defend LGBT. The message he is actually giving, again in context of his other writings, is that Christian children should defend everyone BUT LGBT or Democrats or pro-choice women or Muslims or whoever the Christian Right hates at the moment.

        The other problem is that it isn’t effective to tell people to just stand up for others without telling them why, without telling them that teh differences are acceptable.

        I know the culture you are talking about. I know the anti-intellectual attitude that comes from it. I am tired of coddling it. It needs destruction not acceptance. Sometimes it can be a one-on-one conversation. Sometimes it’s a parade. Sometimes it’s a verbal smack to the head. All of these approaches have good points and bad, but all are necessary. Accepting the ignorance isn’t.

        Reply
      • 57. eDee  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:07 pm

        @Rhie,
        I am not defending all his other writings – I’m not defending this video. You are right, they are wrong.

        You’re right he is not telling them that differences are acceptable, but that isn’t the point of the video.

        The point of the video is “MFC calls on Christian parents to encourage their children to stand up to bullies in public schools” Regardless of their reasoning, justifications, and any other bias, this article misrepresents the posted video.
        It doesn’t make the message right. It doesn’t make them right. It doesn’t make things any better.

        But this article misrepresents the posted video.
        Ok, this time I’m really going to watch Scooby Doo!

        Reply
      • 58. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:10 pm

        And even if this message is being misrepresented here, and I am still not fully convinced of that but I will watch teh video again, it is still a hypocritical and wrong message .

        And, the misrepresentation here is in no way comparable to this man, his organization and his website misrepresenting LGBT or anything else. This was a simple and honest misunderstanding. He is a loathsome creature who purposely misrepresents the lives of people. Completely different things. Not all wrongs are equal.

        Reply
      • 59. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:12 pm

        eDee —

        I forgot to say: none of what I have said is personal and I am not attacking you. I just disagree with you.

        Have fun watching Scooby! Cartoon or live action? Have you seen the cartoons where Batman and Robin show up?

        Reply
      • 60. Sarah  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:17 pm

        @ Rhie at 4:10, I hope we do not try to excuse our (potential) misrepresentation of somebody’s words by saying, hey, he’s mean in other things so it just doesn’t matter. I like to keep above the workings of those of his ilk.

        Reply
      • 61. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:28 pm

        Interesting that you speak against misrepresentation while completely misrepresenting what I have said.

        I never said we should excuse this. I said that it was an easy mistake to make. I also called for correction in another comment. Further, I explained WHY this misrepresentation was easy to make. Explanation is not an excuse.

        I also said and continue to say that this honest mistake is not even close to comparable to what NOM and the FRC do. It doesn’t bring us down to their level and we are still on the right side.

        As you just showed, misunderstanding and misrepresentation by mistake is easy to do. So, give the OP a break and don’t offensively compare him to the evil that is NOM.

        Reply
      • 62. Sarah  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:39 pm

        Point taken.

        Reply
      • 63. eDee  |  October 16, 2010 at 6:34 pm

        @Rhie, I haven’t felt attacked once, I’ve enjoyed the back and forth and I still consider myself new to the anti-hating thing so these forums (with the non-attacking few) help me see the other side of the coin.

        However, you are wrong about one thing, I didn’t want to hear, but I did! ;) We can change the way people think, I am living proof.

        Scooby Doo and the River Monster was great, but I’m dead on my bed.
        Have a good night all,
        ~e

        Reply
      • 64. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 7:57 pm

        eDee

        Good! I just wanted to clarify because sometimes people mistake my strong objection or opinion about something with an attack on their person. I am certainly glad you took in the right way :)

        I enjoy back and forth as well – and Scooby Doo! Have a good evening and a good night’s sleep.

        Reply
      • 65. Carpool Cookie  |  October 16, 2010 at 8:54 pm

        @eDee

        “Think of Christians as children who don’t fully understand the world around them, because, sadly, for the most part, that’s what they are. The Bible even tells us to think like a child!…that’s why NOM has such power. Have you ever heard them say anything intelligent? Nope! Because they don’t have too, they know all they need to do is break their point into little nuggets and feed it to their flock. It’s sad, but true.”

        I’ve always mistrusted fundamentalists because it’s this willingness to completely give your life over (at least in theory, as they all seem to find ways of bending the rules) to someone else’s interpretation of morality. Why would adults need to be lead by the hand through what is basically right and wrong? For most sane people, you’d hope that was an inherent instinct. So in that way, they do seem extremely childlike to me.

        Also, I’ve had to be reminded myself that we don’t want to paint all Christians with the same brush, and dismiss them out of hand as senseless or evil. There are some good posters here who are allies, all of different faiths. When differentiating, sometimes the term “Christianist” is used to identify those freakish, zealot-y ones who are on a rampage.

        Reply
      • 66. Michael Ejercito  |  October 18, 2010 at 12:20 pm

        According to this message, we should not question why the bullying occurs, which I believe is a dangerous proposition for these children.

        The answer is obvious- they revel in cruelty.

        Reply
      • 67. fiona64  |  October 19, 2010 at 11:30 am

        And where did they learn that from, Michael?

        Hmm. Maybe from their church? Or from their parents? Or from people like … you?

        Reply
    • 68. bJason  |  October 16, 2010 at 12:57 pm

      The message is laughable because Christian children ARE THE BULLIES. Mr, Whoever-he-is in this video does not even get that point.

      I’m not yelling at you. What pisses me off is that this video guy says all these nice, soothing words without acknowledging the fact that his group (and those like it) is part of the problem. If groups like his would stop relegating us to second-class citizenship and teaching their children to do the same we would be much farther along in the whole bully issue!!!

      GGRRRR. Not at you.

      Reply
      • 69. eDee  |  October 16, 2010 at 2:30 pm

        @bJason, You’re right.
        But the nice soothing voice is the one of reason – or ASSUMED the one of reason. (ass out of you and me, I know)
        I’m a Christian and I was never a bully, I was scared of my own shadow. I thought we should kill off all the gays, but I was far to scared to say it. I’m far more out spoken now than I ever was when I was a hater.

        It is groups like NOM and what they promote that is causing the bullying – I couldn’t agree more. But this video is how you must talk to the majority of Christian haters if you want them to listen to you. You have to work with the brainwashing.

        Logic never worked on me, it’s not going to work on them. Break your message down into little nuggets of information that they have to agree with. Just like this video does.

        Reply
      • 70. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 3:30 pm

        No you don’t. have to work with it. You have to break it down and destroy it. That can happen with a conversation, or a smack down.

        Minorities are not under any obligation to tailor their words to not hurt the poor widdle feewings of the bigot. Fuck their feelings, kids are dying. They are also not under any obligation to educate. There are plenty of places a person can find information if they want.

        Anyone who brings the tone argument isn’t going to listen anyway.

        Reply
      • 71. eDee  |  October 16, 2010 at 3:58 pm

        @Rhie,
        “You have to break it down and destroy it” yes, that’s was my point it just didn’t come out like that.
        You have work with their brainwashing and pick away at it until you can untangle it and get people to hear what you mean.

        “Minorities are not under any obligation to tailor their words to not hurt the poor widdle feewings of the bigot.”
        You’re right, but do you want them to hear you or block you out?

        Right now they are block us out – right? How much of an impact do our words have on Brian or Maggie (personally)? None, they are not listening. We are not changing their minds. We are under no obligation to tailor our words, but if we want to be heard we have to find away to make them listen.

        We can be angry, but what is anger getting us?
        We can hate, but what is that hate getting us?
        We can yell, but if they don’t hear us what good does it do?
        Know your enemy. Understand how they think.
        Do they know us? I think not. But we must know and understand them, we must apply what we know, speak so they will listen, walk so they will follow. We must do what is Right and Just or all is lost.

        Reply
      • 72. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:01 pm

        What you are saying is called “the tone argument”. People who won’t listen to someone when they use certain words or are (reasonably) upset aren’t going to listen anyway.

        I used to think it made a difference, until I saw many arguments where the minority was being perfectly reasonable, polite, and patient and STILL getting the tone argument.

        It doesn’t matter. People will hear it if they want to, and won’t if they don’t want to.

        Reply
      • 73. Ray in MA  |  October 16, 2010 at 6:55 pm

        eDee posted: “Logic never worked on me”

        That is stating the obvious.

        Reply
    • 74. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 2:11 pm

      The only way to deal with bullies when the administration and teachers won’t get involved (and that is often) is teach your kid to hit back. Bullies stopped bothering me when I started slapping them.

      Reply
    • 75. Michael Ejercito  |  October 18, 2010 at 12:18 pm

      He even goes as far to say that the reason the child is being bullied shouldn’t be the issue, but the bullying itself – the reason shouldn’t matter.
      I’d think that is what we want – right? Gay/straight we’re all the same – right?

      On the issue of bullying, he is absolutely right.

      Reply
  • 76. Sagesse  |  October 16, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    The Religious Right’s position on bullying is to target the bullies (which is fair, and sure beats blaming the victim) and that it should be irrelevant who is the target and why (well, it should be, but it isn’t). They don’t want anyone in authority to talk about ‘gay’, especially in a context that says it’s ok to be ‘gay’. They want silence on the real issue.

    He does seem to be distinguishing between kids who are bullied, kids who are bullies, and kids who stand by and let it happen. I think his words are addressed to the latter group. But adults (school officials) with the authority and responsibility to act are the ones who should step up. Children cannot police themselves. That can’t be the only answer.

    Reply
    • 77. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 2:15 pm

      I agree. We need bullying laws, like the one the MFC is trying to block.

      As I said upthread, I don’t believe he means well by anything he says, not when the crap that is on the front page of his orgs blog stays.

      I think these videos should always be looked at in proper context, along with quotes and journal articles. And, the context here screams a strategy of trying to look like a good guy so he doesn’t get hit like NOM and other organizations for being the bigoted bully he is.

      Reply
  • 78. Chris in Lathrop  |  October 16, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Until school administrators get involved and actually do something about the bullies and their behavior, this isn’t going to stop. The victims themselves are in a no-win situation otherwise.

    Reply
    • 79. Chris in Lathrop  |  October 16, 2010 at 1:57 pm

      Another bullying tip that I learned from my cats: Our boy cat is constantly bullying our girl cat. She’s tougher than him and gets him running scared when she wants to. Usually, though, she doesn’t want to fight. She knows that’s exactly what he wants and fighting usually only eggs him on.

      Does anyone here want to see kids having to live like that because responsible adults refuse to step in?

      Reply
  • 80. Wine Country Lurker Grrl  |  October 16, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    I read the above P8TT post shortly after waking up this morning, and immediately wished I had cinematography skills and copious amounts of free-time — because upon reading this my mind instantly created a “movie”. (I have this freakish ability to create entire storylines start to finish and everything in between, with a single thought.)

    What formed in my mind was the hypothetical existence of a “film short” — of the type that is played at Cannes and other high-profile festivals, and has the ability to reach a wide audience, win awards, get news coverage, be shown for free at PTA meetings and community events, etc. (A girl can dream, can’t she? :-)

    So after this movie thought, I came here to describe and share it with you. I’m not a cinematographer, and I don’t know any cinematographers. (And I don’t have any free time!) So the idea is free for the taking, for someone else to go forth and be filmful.

    The basic premise is a kind of human history piece about different eras of discrimination. What the audience sees are children of different eras learning at home how to be bullies as they grow up, based on what they “passively” hear at home. (The opening era ends with a 5-year child now grown up and participating in witch hunts). The film’s message is to show what we’ve moved past and don’t think like that anymore — at least until we make it up to modern times and the issue of GLBTQ equality. The film ends with the question to the audience about what are THEY doing to create a better future.

    But what took me only an instant to mentally conceive, took me almost two hours to type into something coherent, because my all-at-once thought was soooo detailed and specific about the eras and scenes — especially the GLBTQ segment. It took 3 pages in MSWord to brain dump everything. *gah!* Now what do I do with it?

    Reply
    • 81. Don in Texas  |  October 16, 2010 at 3:16 pm

      Visit the film school or mass communications department at a local college or university.

      Reply
  • 82. Sarah  |  October 16, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    I am strongly with eDee and gaychristian on this one, Jeremy Hooper appears to be misrepresenting the words of Chuck Darrell in the video. Regardless of any underlying jabs, history of MFC or overarching misdirection of NOM and MFC’s resources, I do not hear him saying that the kids who are being bullied should march into their school and stand up to the bullies.

    Chuck says, “With that in mind we’re calling on all Christian parents and people of good will to encourage their children to emulate Christ, and the woman who was about to be stoned, and to march into their schools, and stand up to the bullies and tell ‘em to knock it off. Can you imagine, 5, 10, 15 students marching into their schools and standing up to the bullies and telling them to knock it off?”

    Mr. Hooper’s statement (“He thinks the vulnerable kids should just march right into that school, stamp down a foot, and tell the bullies to stop making their lives and a living, lunch money-deprived hell:”) appears to be a misunderstanding (at best) and taking words out of context (at worst).

    Do you believe Chuck thinks “all Christian parents and people of good will” have children who are being bullied? I don’t. He’s telling them to stand up for other kids.

    And, please don’t attack me, because I see other harmful and hateful ideas in what Chuck says. But, jumping into misrepresentation and taking things out of context is not what I have come to expect from this site.

    Reply
    • 83. Chris in Lathrop  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:06 pm

      My apologies to gaychristian and eDee if I offended, and I do see where Chuck Darrell is calling on other kids to stand up to the bullies. Hooper has misrepresented Darrell’s remarks, but with all the tongue-tripping Darrell does, I think I can see why. He enunciated that part of his message quite poorly, and poor word choice makes it possible to interpret his message as saying that Christian parents and people of good will are two different creatures.

      I still stand by my statements to the effect that this won’t work by itself. It may stop an incident or two here and there, but won’t cause any lasting change so long as school administrators, teachers, staff and parents stand idly by while the bullying happens. Other students pressuring a bully or bullies is not likely to change the bully’s mindset in the long run, nor will it affect policy or policy enforcement. Adults must get involved.

      Reply
      • 84. JonT  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:12 pm

        And I maintain my position, that as long as GLBT’s are legally confined as second class citizens in this country, there will be very little impetus for these adults (or christian children) to do a damn thing other than perpetuate their biases to the next generation.

        Reply
      • 85. Sarah  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:14 pm

        It is the misrepresentation that is dangerous if we want to walk on the right side. Making an excuse as to why it is okay to have that misrepresentation on the front page of our website is unacceptable for me. If we saw NOM, MFC or any other organization on the other side doing this, we’d be the first to call them out, wouldn’t we?? That’s what worries me.

        Yes, MFC’s message may do next to nothing to address the problem, except make Chuck feel good about himself. But, we need to fight his actual words, not our misinterpretation of them. And I do not think it was easy to misinterpret.

        Reply
  • 86. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    In context, it was very easy to misinterpret actually. But, I don;t expect that everyone here has read the things he and his organization have said. So, I see why you say that.

    This accident is not even close to comparable to the actions of NOM and FRC and other enemies. This was a good faith misunderstanding. It was not made for political gain, to curry favor or to back a prejudice or to make the other side look bad. I do think it should be corrected.

    What NOM and FRC do is continually and knowingly misrepresent the lives and loves of LGBT people to score points and money.

    Not all wrongs are created equal.

    Reply
    • 87. Sarah  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:43 pm

      I see the levels of wrong you speak of, and I do trust in the good faith of our writers. I guess it just hit a nerve here… Thanks for the discussion. :)

      Reply
      • 88. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:47 pm

        Sure :)

        And you hit the crux of the problem here. It comes down to trust. I don’t trust FRC or anyone involved in any organization like that. Therefore I don’t trust them to make honest mistakes.

        I too also trust the people here. So, I trust that this was an honest mistake and misunderstanding.

        Reply
  • 89. Joe  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    On some level, the message he has about others defending those who are being bullied does work, it just isn’t perfect. There was a group of about 15 student, including me in high school who all went to the same youth church. Whenever we saw someone being bullied, we would gather nearby and fairly politely tell the bully to leave him alone. It’s actually kind of interesting how intimidating 5 or 10 people can be, even when they aren’t trying to be aggressive.

    The person we help would realize that there are people who have their back, and would usually help other people with us. Again we didn’t stop all bullying, but enough of us were popular enough that a few people had a better school life than they would have.

    The message that needs to get out though, is that any bullying is utterly intolerable. Parents need to teach their kids that whether you agree with someone’s choices or not, they are equally worthy of respect. Schools need to make it clear that it is not to be tolerated, and those who are bullied can come to any adult in the school and action will be taken. We will never completely stop bullying, but if kids know they have someone they can go to, some way of standing up for themselves without getting creamed, maybe we can stop some of these tragedies.

    Reply
    • 90. Ray in MA  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:42 pm

      And what about the kid who is all alone, ostracised… no friends.

      Let him be beat to a pulp?

      This isn’t something that you hope for the easy way out.

      Reply
      • 91. Joe  |  October 16, 2010 at 8:10 pm

        I’m sorry, what? I don’t get what you mean about the kid who is all alone. Should I have elaborated that the someone being bullied didn’t have to be anyone we knew? Or was your response about something else in the post?

        Reply
    • 92. Carpool Cookie  |  October 16, 2010 at 9:07 pm

      I’m not making excuses for anyone….but I suspect that most bullies come from disturbed homes. So I don’t see how their parents are going to take the time or posses the abilities to teach their kids about respecting others, and not being ANIMALS.

      There was a very cruel boy where I grew up, who everyone had horror stories about. He was just sadistically sick. A total creep. At my high school reunions, we compare stories and new depravity is always revealed. (He spit in the face of one little girls puppy!) (PS: he’s a high ranking police officer now…joy of joys.) ANYWAY…….a wrinkle I’ve learned from his past is that his dad used to beat both he and his brother bloody at home. So, that’s the type of bully who isn’t going to have their parent offering any guidance.

      PS: This bully’s teenage son is now gay.

      Mmmm-hmmm…….

      Reply
  • 93. Ray in MA  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    A thief walks into a bank.

    He passes a note to a teller… it says “I have a gun, fill a bag with all the cash from your drawer, or I’ll kill you”.

    Teller: “Oh please Mr. Bank robber, don’t steal our money.”

    Thief: “OK, I’m sorry to bother you. Have a nice day”

    Reply
  • 94. Buffy  |  October 16, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Right. That will work as well as it always has.

    Reply
    • 95. Sagesse  |  October 16, 2010 at 5:40 pm

      That’s it :).

      Reply
  • 96. Paul in Minneapolis  |  October 16, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    The Minneapolis Star Tribune published an article by Minnesota Family Council Tom Prichard on Thursday. It’s pretty much a word-by-word repeat of Chuck Darrell’s dumb little video.

    http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentary/104989799.html

    Reply
    • 97. Ray in MA  |  October 16, 2010 at 6:06 pm

      SLANTED REPORTING:

      Because teachers and school officials can’t be everywhere, MFC is calling on parents and students to join with their school officials and stand up to the bullies in their schools. An excellent role model is in the Gospel of John, 8:3-11, when Jesus stood up for the woman who was about to be stoned. He didn’t affirm her behavior but confronted those attempting to bullying her.

      BIGOTS:

      MFC does not support “antihomophobia” curricula, because they cross the line from addressing bullying words and behavior to targeting the attitudes, values and beliefs of students and undermining the authority of parents regarding homosexuality, homosexual “marriage” and same-sex relationships.

      THAT”S WHAT MR. HOOPER IS GETTING AT HERE.

      IT’s in BLACK AND WHITE PRINT.

      Why is this so hard to understand?

      Reply
  • 98. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  October 16, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    The only reason these people cannot remove their cranial shell and its contents from their rectal cavities is because they have got them buried so far up their that they would need to be cut at the waist and extracted.

    Reply
    • 99. Ray in MA  |  October 16, 2010 at 6:48 pm

      And they would still spew hate.

      Reply
      • 100. Wine Country Lurker Grrl  |  October 16, 2010 at 7:32 pm

        Sooooo….. I’ve been actually wondering this all day…..

        I think most of us agree that the only likely-to-eventually-be-effective solution is education. But people only learn when they are taught at their level and ability to learn.

        Up above eDee says “15 years ago, I was a hater. Then one brilliant gay man broke it down for me in small child like terms. ”

        I dunno about the rest of you, but I certainly would be interested to hear more about that interaction, and what it was that finally won eDee over.

        Reply
  • 101. Michelle Evans  |  October 16, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    I find it sad, too, that even when we have the ability to educate, oftentimes we are not allowed to do so.

    Case in point is that I do a lot of speaking for the PFLAG Speakers Bureau here in Orange County. Been doing it for years now, and always enjoy the experience to help people understand, especially with regard to transgender issues, since that is about the most misunderstood thing there is. I do this primarily at colleges and universities, and some other places, too

    However, when it comes to being able to speak at the high school level, our local PFLAG group does not allow trans people to join the panel. Gay, Lesbian, and Bi are fine, but trans is off limits. I was literally told by the head of the Speakers Bureau that they don’t want to “force” trans issues on high school level students.

    As we all know, being LGB in high school can be deadly, but think about a trans person, and up that problem by a large percentage. To be kept from talking at high schools is a problem that is telling anyone there who happens to be in this situation that being trans is not something to even talk about, so think how much further that drives someone into the closet. It drive me nuts that I run into transphobia here in my local LGBT community.

    Reply
    • 102. Chris in Lathrop  |  October 17, 2010 at 7:32 am

      Michelle, that is so sad! I mean, way beyond hypocritical, but terribly sad! What a golden opportunity down the drain and a slap in the face all rolled into one. Can I help in some way?

      Reply
      • 103. Sagesse  |  October 17, 2010 at 8:21 am

        In Chuck Darryl’s world, the PFLAG group wouldn’t be in the schools at all. Part of the reason ENDA is stalled is that this round also protects transgender. Just keep pushing the edges of the envelope, ’cause it’s the right thing to do.

        Reply
  • 104. JT1962  |  October 16, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    I think all of you who are talking about the tone of your voice or your argument being what’s important so that they will hear us should watch the video from The View this week with Bill O’reilly, when Whoopi and Joy walked out.

    The conversation started out peacefully enough until they started talking about the mosque in NYC. Then Bill decided that the women there didn’t really know what they were talking about and had to be taught. Listen to his condescending tone and his face when he looks at Joy and tells her to listen to him and learn something. He didn’t want to even listen to Barbara after the 2 walked out, when she told him he was wrong and that what he was saying was wrong. And she was talking in a very even tone and had fully listened to what he had to say.

    When people, and it doesn’t matter who the people are or what side they’re on, have their minds made up that they know what’s right and what’s wrong and only their opinion counts, then the discussion is over. Nothing you say or do will sway their minds at that point.

    To have Christian families and those of like understanding tell their children to stand up to bullies because if a group stand up at once, it will have an impression, well it’s just ludicrous. Having been bullied my entire childhood because of being different, (God, let me count the ways!) I can tell you that having others stand up for you means nothing. It just gives them more ammunition against you. And today, children aren’t just using words, they’re using words, text, pictures, and weapons. It’s not time to have kids stand up, it’s time for parents to sit down and learn the consequences for teaching their children to be bullies.

    Reply
    • 105. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 8:23 pm

      Calling out mansplaining or whitesplaing or straight talking is different than using the tone argument. There’s bigotry involved that’s making the tone so unpleasant.

      Saying “Well, if you just used a more polite tone people will listen!” is very different than saying “Talk to women like they are real people and stop being a sexist asshat.”

      People are going to listen if they are going to listen. I started listening when I got smacked upside the head. Others started listening in basic conversations.

      I think that it is in my best interest as a bisexual woman to explain why being bisexual is not the same as being a nymphomanic, and why poly isn’t cheating. I don’t think I owe anyone an explanation. I also wouldn’t say that other minorities in different situations should act the way I do.

      I agree with you that we need to sit parents and administrators down. I also think we need to criminalize this behavior, and remove such such children from society until they learn to interact with people normally.

      Reply
    • 106. Carpool Cookie  |  October 17, 2010 at 11:55 am

      I had a long argument going with a young gay person at imdb, who was really convinced that gays and lesbians had to “win over” the Christianists by not being strident, and by somehow making friends with them…because by demanding too much (this was about marriage equality) too quickly, we were off-putting.

      I pointed out that this group was never going to accept gay people or be true friends to them. That diplomacy is wasted on people who want you to die, or be herded up and sent away, or “changed” into being like them.

      The ironic thing is that (in my experience, anyway) gays and lesbians tend to be a kind and compassionate group. They generally haven’t had a problem with being friendly (except for friction between males and females when the early gay civil rights groups were forming in the 1950’s) (?)

      Traditionally, kowtowing and being sensitive don’t work when you’re at war. That’s why settling the disputes through the legal system, which is hopefully more impartial and unemotional (and has decisions made by educated people) is the surest way to go.

      Reply
      • 107. Rhie  |  October 17, 2010 at 9:09 pm

        I don’t know about LG being more compassionate than other groups. I’ve seen some disgustingly racist and transphobic words from gays and lesbians on other liberal boards. A lot of the time it was ignored or cheered by the moderator. Very rarely were they told to shut it because they were being ugly.

        This board is unique in the kind of self-policing it does. Most don’t nor do they have moderators who recognize all kinds of bigotry as wrong, not just the kind that personally affects them.

        LGBT are simply a subset of people. People are rude, bigoted, obnoxious and stupid. It stands to reason that some LGBT are also rude, bigoted, obnoxious and stupid.

        Reply
  • 108. JT1962  |  October 16, 2010 at 10:19 pm

    @Rhie, I think we have to agree to disagree on several points. I don’t feel it’s my job to explain anything to anyone. It’s my job to point them in the right direction for where to get the information but telling someone something they really don’t want to hear doesn’t work. People learn best when they find it out for themselves.

    As for criminalizing this behavior and removing children from society…Kind of a double edged sword, in my book. Yes, you want children to learn there is a negative consequence to this behavior but giving them a record that will follow them for life, for doing nothing more than following the behavior they’ve learned, is just wrong. It’s not society they need to be removed from, it’s the people who are teaching them that such behavior is acceptable and even encouraged, with no consequences other than a pat on the back and a “I’m proud of you.”

    Reply
    • 109. Rhie  |  October 16, 2010 at 10:29 pm

      JT — I don’t feel it’s my job to explain anything to anyone either. I think it is my best interest to a lot of the time, but I owe no one anything. I will point true seekers in the right direction for information, as I know from experience that the Christian Right brainwashing is so effective as to render people incapable of even searching for information.

      My personal example of that is that until I was about 17 I had no idea what sex was. Telling me to Google search wouldn’t have been helpful because I wouldn’t have even known what terms to use or what information to trust.

      So, I will point people to blogs and websites and books I find helpful but I do expect them to actually READ them.

      You have a very good point about the behavior in one way: That is what they are taught to do by people sharing ugly attitudes. The reason I say criminalize is that such behavior in adults is criminal, and I see no reason to hold children to a different standard.

      I don’t propose throwing kids in jail. I don’t see that as working at all. I mean more send them to an alternative school that incorporates individual and group therapy, dorms, etc. Once they have learned better behavior, release them with no record or anything like that.

      That’s so sensible I doubt anyone will think to do it.

      Reply
    • 110. Wolfinlv  |  October 17, 2010 at 7:34 am

      it already is a crime if an adult does it and I believe most laws apply to children as well. Harassment, slander, liable, assault and battery these are crimes. Hell I’ll even throw in Stalking, as many bullies purposely seek out these same individuals day after day at school in their neighborhoods etc. So yes Stalking would qualify as well. So they are committing a crime. So what if they are kids. Then they are tried as kids and their record is usually wiped clean when they turn 18.
      So the behavior is already a crime… it’s getting law enforcement to ENFORCE the law is what we need.

      Reply
    • 111. Chris in Lathrop  |  October 17, 2010 at 7:56 am

      JT – this is where having school administrators, staff and the parents involved comes in. You start it in Head Start, preschool and kindergarten, i.e. the kids’ and parents’ first venture into public schooling. From the word ‘go’, kids should be taught that all bullying is wrong, explained to (at an age-appropriate level) what harm they are causing, and taught a way to have done things better. From the word ‘go’, parent need to be taught that bullying will not be tolerated out of their children for any reason. Even parents of bullies are unlikely to allow their kids continue behaving in a manner that will lead to expulsion.

      Kids who can’t and won’t get along have juvenile hall (or whatever regional term might be used) there for a reason. There is behavior that can be handled in school or at home, and there is behavior that goes beyond that. And juvenile records are usually sealed by the court and won’t follow a person into adult life.

      Reply
  • 112. Wolfinlv  |  October 17, 2010 at 7:29 am

    Ok having been bullied in school not only because I was gay but because I was a preacher’s kid, I can honestly say what he is advocating would work. In my last two years of high school there were about 5 of us that were “outcasts” we just weren’t accepted. All of us had been picked on and all of us had suffered but those two years it changed because we banded together. We stood up to the bullies and stopped it. One football player isn’t going to be much good against 1 6’2″ 186 pound gay guy if he’s also got 4 other people with him. And so long as there were “friendly witnesses” around they left me alone. If more kids would act to protect the bullied instead of just ignoring it then yes that would help. There are often those that feel bad it’s happening but don’t want to get involved or want to say stop but then don’t want to become the target themselves. If we can tell the kids to stand up for each other then there would be less bullying.

    Reply
  • 113. Biff  |  October 17, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    We can argue semantics all day long. I, as an American will defend all the rights that our Constitution holds forth- INCLUDING, the freedom to worship as we see fit. Everyone was picked on at one time or another at any level of our educations. Fat, skinny, four-eyed, limp-wristed etc.. That is all well and good, it never however eased the hurt. We recieved comforting phrases like, “walk it off”, “they’re just jealous”, or MY personal favorite, “what did you DO, or Say to them?…….These days it is compounded by the internet, teacher apathy (even worse than before), and the possibility that your foes might actually come to school with a handgun! ( while driving DADDY’S pick-up truck with the “Christian-Fish Decal” on the back.)
    This poor man is still operating under the assumption that ; 1. kids might be able to walk this OFF. 2. everyone operates under their “assumed Christianity principals”…and, 3.no-one is actually watching the outcome regarding this in HIS area……..*prollyNOT*…this MOFO hopes if he holds off long enough he can retire without any DEATHS.

    Reply
  • 114. John B.  |  October 17, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    I have to agree with those who say this post is completely misrepresenting what Mr. Darrell is saying. Whatever we might think of him or his organization, or why he is making this video, he is SAYING THE RIGHT THING. He is saying that kids who are NOT being bullied need to say something when they see bullying occurring. He is saying that parents need to talk to their kids and encourage them to set a good example. I think he also makes a good point that we should be focusing on the behavior of the bullies–because you know that those bullies aren’t just limiting their bullying to gay kids. Bullying is simply wrong, regardless of who the victim is. (And regarding the adultery example, I find it very interesting that he’s comparing those who were simply trying to follow the Mosaic law–by stoning an adulteress–to common schoolyard bullies.)

    BTW I was one of those bullied kids 30+ years ago, and for whatever reason, I was not able to stand up to the bullies or stand up for myself. And on several occasions, other kids came to my defense. I have no idea if they were Christian, all I know is that they were good kids, and I was incredibly grateful because they didn’t have to put themselves on the line for me. And it was in part because of kids like them that things got better, especially when I got into high school (junior high was the worst, which seems to be a common experience). It seems like this is exactly the kind of behavior Mr. Darrell is trying to encourage with this video. Let’s just hope it’s more than just lip service.

    Reply
  • 115. Jess  |  October 18, 2010 at 5:20 am

    OH HO! Is THAT all I had to do? Just tell the bullies to stop!?! What was I DOING all those years of compulsory education? Oh right, standing up and asking the bullies to stop. And then I got kicked in the knee and my books stolen for twelve years. Maybe I was just doing it wrong…

    Okay, what fantasy world do these people LIVE IN? Standing up to a bully and telling them to “knock it off” nine times out of ten simply invites more insult. And don’t even believe for a SECOND that they ACTUALLY want kids to stop bullying glbt students, because if they did, they wouldn’t have made it so freaking difficult to start up a GSA club! When we tried to have our first day of silence, the Alliance Defense Fund threatened to sue my school if we didn’t also run their absurd Day of “Truth”. If the wanted gay kids to feel safe in school and that they actually gave a shit about them, they wouldn’t have fought to keep my school theater production from showing The Laramie Project because it was about a GAY student.

    You know what? If you don’t like gay people, that’s fine, just come out and say it. But don’t freaking lie through your teeth and PRETEND you actually care, because if you did you would stop making their lives difficult by interfering in legal matters THAT DO NOT CONCERN YOU.

    Reply
  • 116. Jess  |  October 18, 2010 at 5:36 am

    Sorry, that last post was angry. It’s all out of my system now

    Look, Mr. Darnell is doing a nice gesture, but here’s why I don’t buy it:

    He insist on not talking about the issue, and JUST for gays. That’s now how any of the other anti bullying programs work, we talk about the reason for the animosity towards other groups, but then most people by this point realize there is nothing superior or inferior about the color of your skin unless you’re talking about sun protection, and everyone has a right to what religion they are and shouldn’t have the mistakes of some of their group reflect on everyone (ex: Not all Muslims are terrorists so stop treating them like it)

    Darnell is missing a step. He is saying even though gay people are “sinners” like the aforementioned adulteress, even though his group advocates the legal discrimination of glbt citizens, he says they should be treated equally in school. It really doesn’t add up. Look, I understand that homosexuality is viewed as a moral no-no, but you know what? They don’t even rub divorce or extramarital sex in the faces of other people NEARLY as much as they do homosexuality. It might be second only to abortion as far as unforgivable sins go for these guys.

    Catholic schools will allow teachers who are divorced and even students caught having sex, but they will punt anyone out who is gay because “it goes against their moral code”. Well that’s all well and fine, but what about the other people?

    See no matter what many of these religious organizations say, it’s still pretty clear that they would so much rather prefer it that gays just stayed in the closet so they wouldn’t have to deal with them. Yeah it’s a nice gesture Mr. Darnell, but I’m past nice gestures. You can’t advocate the barring of CIVIL rights and say “treat gays equally” at the same time. Kids are smarter than that, they know if somebody should be treated equally, then that means in ALL aspects, not just in the school yard.

    Reply
    • 117. Josh  |  October 18, 2010 at 3:56 pm

      Yep, that’s a huge complaint I have with these groups against glbt people. They take on a small minority instead of the majority who are getting divorces and having sex outside of marriage. If we ask them why they aren’t taking those issues on before marriage equality, they never give a good answer.

      Has anyone at P8TT ever asked NOM this and gotten a good answer?

      Reply
      • 118. fiona64  |  October 18, 2010 at 4:09 pm

        I constantly ask how NOMbies et al are doing with the other Levitical laws, since they are so hung up on that one.

        I hear crickets chirping … or I get “Well, that’s the Old Testament, so it doesn’t count — *except* for that one verse.”

        In other words, they haven’t thought things out very well.

        Love,
        Fiona

        Reply
      • 119. Ronnie  |  October 18, 2010 at 4:17 pm

        Yeah & when you point out that regardless of what scripture you worship…it is not the law…the Constitution i.e. the 1st amendment assures us that right….even the tumble weeds are quite…then they come up with some lame thing…”Homosexuality is not a religion”….well duh…oh & my new favorite from the anti-gay mantra….”Christianity is not a religion…its a relationship with God”….well then I guess its not protected under the 1st amendment…..so that’s moot…can I have my rights now?…..”No you’re Gay…the Bible says no”…ummmm…didn’t we just have this conversation?….keyboard face…..BOAW!…BOAW!!….BOAW!!!….<3…Ronnie

        Reply
      • 120. Rhie  |  October 18, 2010 at 10:27 pm

        I am sure we have all seen that letter that gets sent around that talks about the Levitical laws to show up the hypocrisy of such groups. My favorite iteration of that is the speech President Bartlet gave in an episode of The West Wing to their Dr Laura stand in.

        Hope that worked…

        Reply
      • 121. JonT  |  October 18, 2010 at 10:42 pm

        @Rhie: Yes, I have posted that letter a few times myself, as have others.

        This clip has also been posted several times, and I watch it every single time :)

        I love it!

        Reply
      • 122. Rhie  |  October 18, 2010 at 10:48 pm

        Oh I figured. I am glad you still like it the umpteenth time around :)

        The West Wing is the best TV show ever, by the way.

        Reply
  • 123. Josh  |  October 18, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    I believe he said the christian parents should teach their kids to stand up to bullies which I fully support. He’s not saying the picked-on kid should stand up for him/herself and all will be ok.

    What’s most disgusting is that lots of the bullying no doubt comes from those kids who are taught by their CINO parents that it’s ok to ridicule people into conformity. According to them, that’s how you get along in this world, just conform. Oh, but don’t conform when it comes to other things in high school, like cursing, drinking, and getting laid.

    Reply
  • 124. Josh  |  October 18, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    The title of this post is wrong. He’s not speaking to the bullied victims. Please correct it so we don’t post lies like those at NOM like to do.

    We’re better than NOM!!

    Reply
  • 125. Jess  |  October 19, 2010 at 5:06 am

    Look, I believe you can view homosexuality as immoral, and still have respect for glbt people and treat them equally, I’ve seen it done. If you think about it, the religious taboo against homosexuality should be the same as the taboo against eating pork, or a more universal example, extramarital sex. Most Jews/Muslims don’t freak out at people for eating pork, and while religious people in general have a thing against extramarital sex, you don’t generally hear them calling for the stoning of adulterers. So it is VERY possible to have different moral beliefs and all still get along, and a Christian who takes issue with homosexuality should be able to – no – REQUIRED by their own faith to stand up for anyone being picked on. But you can’t do that if you are taught that homosexuality is the same as pedophilia/mental disorder/ sub-human/whatever it is people say that makes gay people look so damn scary. I mean how many of you guys would be willing to defend somebody you found morally reprehensible or physically disgusting?

    I’m not saying religious people have to change their beliefs, in fact, I’m asking them to become a little truer to them. As far as the bible is concerned homosexuality just doesn’t rank up there with adultery, so stop making excuses for homophobia and treat everyone equally.

    Reply
    • 126. fiona64  |  October 19, 2010 at 11:34 am

      Jess, I do it every damned day, while I hold my nose because Fred Phelps has the right to spew his crap … no matter how offensive I find it. I do it every day that my nephew spews his hate speech … because he has the right to spew his crap, no matter how offensive I find it.

      And are the physically disgusting (whatever the hell that means) less worthy of my concern than the physically beautiful? I don’t believe that. (My two favorite books are “The Man Who Fell to Earth,” by Walter Tevis, and “The Phantom of the Opera,” by Gaston Leroux. Draw your own conclusions.)

      That said, I do agree with your final point that people need to stop making excuses for their bigotry.

      Reply
    • 127. Rhie  |  October 19, 2010 at 2:11 pm

      I actually WOULD defend someone I found physically or morally unappealing. Physical deformity would likely be the result of a disorder or accident or crime. None of those things would likely be the person’s fault. Even if it were, that would be punishment enough and I wouldn’t want to add to it.

      Morally unappealing might depend. I would definitely condemn a family who killed a person who hurt them. I would understand it, but still condemn it. I don’t think I could stomach legally defending certain crimes if I KNEW the person was guilty.

      But, yes, you are absolutely right. A person can see something as immoral but realize that not everyone follows those morals and leave it. Unless they are taught – like a lot of anti-gay advocates teach – that the thing is so evil, so horrible, that any person of conscience HAS to condemn it, like pedophilia.

      Anyone who thinks that kind of teaching about homosexuality doesn’t lead to murder and beatings and rapes of gay people is a bloody fool and ought to get their head of out of their ass.

      Reply
  • 128. fern  |  October 21, 2010 at 8:23 am

    It’s for the teachers to stop the bullying. I was taller than my class mates, but shy and a coward, so I got beat up called a faggot, till I couldn’t take it anymore, so I ended up some sort of a street fighter and in reform school. Thanks to those dedicated teachers and trash schools.

    Reply

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