Wasting our time and theirs: NOM allowed to keep TV ads on the air

October 23, 2010 at 11:54 am 75 comments

(Hey everyone — apologies for P8TT going dark on Friday. With the election bearing down, our team has been hard at work on a number of fronts. So our focus shifted for about 24 hours. But we’re back and we can’t wait to tell you about a little surprise we have in store on Monday. Meanwhile, here’s Jeremy with a few thoughts on NOM’s latest legal maneuverings as they undermine election laws across the country. — Eden)

By Jeremy Hooper

The National Organization for Marriage was in court again yesterday, working those financial fine lines and election law margins that keep them on the air in several states without explicitly letting the public know where the money’s coming from. This time the states in question are New York, where for some bizarre reason Brian Brown and company want to run ads supporting Carl “don’t want gays brainwashing children” Paladino, and Rhode Island, where the group’s trying to run a general ad criticizing marriage equality as a whole:

In Buffalo on Thursday, a federal judge reserved decision after a NOM lawyer argued it would be unconstitutional to regulate the group as a political committee because it’s not controlled by a candidate and doesn’t spend most of its money on candidates.

Meanwhile in Providence, a judge said the group could go ahead with ads in Rhode Island as long as it reports how much it’s spending.

Gay marriage foes seek freedom in running ads [AP via PBPost]

NOM is hurtful, NOM is working against the constitution, NOM is offending the lives and loves of millions. Yea, yeah, yeah — you’ve heard it all before.

What really stands out to me with this story involving two different court case in two different states is just how wasteful this whole fight truly is! Because of the contrived existence of groups like NOM, we on the pro-equality side are forced into court, forced onto the streets in protest, forced to spill much digital ink on the so-called “culture war,” and forced to generally pause our lives to focus on this silly fight. But at the same time, so are those on the anti-equality side. Because groups like NOM have put so much information out there that has duped the public into seeing this as the fight of a generation, many good and decent people are spending mucho time putting an undue amount of mental, financial, and emotional effort on a situation that matters to their lives not! Courts get tied up, election boards are forced to hold lengthy hearings, political minds that could be solving actual real world problems are instead spilling mindful attention on anti-gay marriage gambit. In the span of a limited lifetime, *THIS* is what continues to waste all of our hours?!?!

We kind of just accept that things exist by a virtue not greater or meritorious reason than their manufactured presence. A starlet’s undeserved fame? A bad TV show that just kind of runs 201010220949under the radar for many seasons? A political group and political fight that enters into our national lexicon? We all just kind of accept certain contrivances simply because they are out there in the public, thanks to PR agencies, determination that goes beyond skill, fortuitous nepotism, or access to a healthy bank account. This modern day “protect marriage” machine is in that exact same vein.

As we move forward, we really should start addressing the real, real problem here: That the benign civil marriages of same-sex couples should NOT. EVEN. BE. A. CONVERSATION. IN. 2010. AMERICA, but it an overwrought dialogue because of artificial aggression. We don’t have to buy that issue of Us Weekly simply because someone’s publicist is telling us to accept the instant stardom of this or that reality TV personality. Same token: We don’t have to buy into Maggie Gallagher’s hobbies, simply because the Catholic church, conservative establishment, and nameless donors have turned this whim into a movement.

Entry filed under: NOM Exposed, Right-wing.

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75 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Kathleen  |  October 23, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Reply
    • 2. Ann S.  |  October 23, 2010 at 12:15 pm

      ~

      Reply
      • 3. JonT  |  October 23, 2010 at 12:19 pm

        Reply
      • 4. Alan E.  |  October 23, 2010 at 12:43 pm

        “dot”

        Reply
    • 5. Mandi  |  October 23, 2010 at 5:08 pm

      just subscribing…

      Reply
  • 6. StraightForEquality  |  October 23, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    √ too.

    Reply
    • 7. Ronnie  |  October 23, 2010 at 3:04 pm

      three

      Reply
      • 8. Ronnie  |  October 23, 2010 at 3:04 pm

        <3…Ronnie

        Reply
  • 9. Sagesse  |  October 23, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    It will be interesting to tally how many of the candidates/causes NOM is backing this election season actually win. Nervewracking to wait, but interesting.

    Not being taunted… “we can’t wait to tell you about a little surprise we have in store on Monday”… Nope, not at all, not even wondering… Nope.

    Reply
    • 10. AndrewPDX  |  October 23, 2010 at 1:40 pm

      Is it monday yet?

      Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
      Andrew

      Reply
      • 11. Ed Cortes  |  October 24, 2010 at 10:40 am

        It’s 0640 on Monday in Fiji!!!!

        <— it's a micro dot!!

        Reply
      • 12. Franck  |  October 24, 2010 at 2:27 pm

        It’s been Monday for the last 28 minutes now in Madagascar. Hello everyone!

        – Franck P. Rabeson
        Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1220 days, as of today.

        Reply
      • 13. Kathleen  |  October 24, 2010 at 2:30 pm

        Hi Franck! We still have 9-1/2 hours to go here in California and then another 24 hours more before the deadline expires.

        Reply
    • 14. Rhie  |  October 23, 2010 at 2:25 pm

      Well, so far, it seems like groups like NOM and secret money and the Tea Party are doing way more harm than good to the Republicans.

      In a midterm, the party in power loses. That has been true for nearly all modern elections. In times like these, the party in power tends to lose BIG.

      But we aren’t seeing that at all. The Dems are probably going to lose a few seats but not the 40 it would take to lose the house. Dems could keep a majority in the Senate thanks to Christine O’Donnell.

      The polls are showing a big Democrat surge. In districts with a Tea Party extremist, the Democrats are winning. In other districts, it’s tied.

      This is going to be a very interesting election.

      Reply
  • 15. truthspew  |  October 23, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    The RI thing perplexes me. They should be required to both report what they’re spending and where they go the money to run their POLITICAL ads.

    Reply
  • 16. Tracy  |  October 23, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    This is really a good point. Why is NOM so focused on deleting SSM when the divorce rate among heterosexuals continues to rise, even without SSM? While battered wives continue to be abused and don’t know they have somewhere to go? While spouses spend all their time at work and let their marriages languish?

    By the same token, why do organizations like these focus on illegalizing abortion while hundreds of thousands of children are homeless, parentless, or starving on the streets?

    I would like to see NOM actually start doing something productive with their money, their ads, and their air time. Something that DIRECTLY impacts people’s families in a good way.

    Encourage people to adopt a needy child. Encourage people who are married to spend more quality time with their families. Organize family weekends for counseling of troubled families. Air TV ads that simply remind people to set work and stress aside for a moment, and have a date with their spouse.

    If NOM were truly a “national organization for marriage” I would be able to view them as something other than a pack of hypocritical bullies who seek only to create miserable lives for a group of people they believe should be second-class citizens.

    Reply
    • 17. Kate  |  October 23, 2010 at 1:40 pm

      Good to see you again, Tracy. How are you doing?

      Reply
      • 18. Tracy  |  October 23, 2010 at 1:47 pm

        Hi Kate — thank you for asking. :) I am getting by okay, trying to focus on work and ignore the train wreck that is otherwise known as my personal life. lol ;) I hope you all are well. I’ve been away for awhile, busy with work, but as always, I try to read this blog as often as I am able.

        Reply
      • 19. Tracy  |  October 23, 2010 at 1:53 pm

        And while I’m at it, let me say that you all are such lovely people, and you made a BIG DIFFERENCE for me when I needed help. I pointed my Mom to this site, and she was impressed by the outpouring of support for me in my time of need. I told her, sometimes it takes a village. :) This community is so wonderful, I can’t help but think that the big players in NOM (Brian, Maggie…) would be moved if only they could experience it …. (assuming they actually HAVE hearts, which is a grossly unfounded assumption at this point)…

        Reply
      • 20. Kate  |  October 23, 2010 at 1:59 pm

        Did you go to Sheryl’s gathering last week, Tracy?

        Reply
      • 21. Tracy  |  October 23, 2010 at 2:16 pm

        @Kate — I wasn’t able to go to Sheryl’s gathering because I was in ranking that week. This impacts my employees’ raises for this year, so I couldn’t get away. I do hope, however, that someday I can meet some of you, somehow. :)

        Reply
    • 22. Chris B  |  October 23, 2010 at 1:59 pm

      @Tracy: Wow, a refreshing voice of reason.

      (You forgot to mention education about contraception. We don’t have to get into the silliness of ‘abstinence-only’ education–logic clearly dictates that it is not practical. I went to a fundamentalist bible college and several ‘nice christian girls’ had to leave due to pregnancy… one fathered by the son of a preacher man…).

      I agree that marriage in the US is in crisis. But do you solve that by banning gay marriage? Of course not. How is that even a solution? If your house is on fire, is the solution to ban candles from all your neighbors’ homes? No, you take care of the core issue of your own house.

      But, of course, the real issue for NOM is not ‘marriage’, it’s the gays. Gays and Lesbians in several states, including CA, already have marriage-like state recognition of their relationships–via Domestic Partnerships. Disallowing the use of the word ‘marriage’ will not stop these people from living together and adopting or raising their own children in a marriage-like relationship. All of NOM’s arguments, and the arguments in the Prop 8 case make it sound that without ‘marriage’, these couples and families will cease to exist. Right? Not having access to the term ‘marriage’ will not keep a single G/L couple from living together or adopting a child, right?

      Agghhh, this whole thing is frustrating to me because the arguments lack any logic whatsoever.

      Reply
      • 23. Tracy  |  October 23, 2010 at 2:29 pm

        Chris, unfortunately, logic is not a virtue that NOM even understands. The truth is, the American masses are not necessarily led by logic. NOM somehow has come to realize (I say it this way, because this is a sophisticated concept that they must have come upon accidentally) that FEAR is the most powerful motivator of any massive group of people. And so, every ad they pay for; every “bus tour” they launch; every word they say is geared toward inflaming the fear that SSM will somehow DESTROY their family.

        Their child will learn about SSM and instantly become gay. Their spouse will suddenly realize that he/she is gay and will leave for greener pastures. Something bad will happen. Period.

        For the uninformed masses, this can be a powerful message.

        What I wonder is …. should we counter with another message – that illegalizing SSM nullifies the fundamental freedoms upon which America was founded; that espousing the principles of the Christian faith (which is clearly a driving factor here) will lead to a theocratically influenced legal system; that relegating a group of citizens to second-class citizenship will lead to an oppressive society in which some thrive and some perish….

        The truth is, we are better citizens than that. We do not stoop to leveraging fear tactics to manipulate the American citizenry. We appeal to logic, and morality, and goodness; unfortunately, these are sometimes not as compelling to the masses as FEAR.

        Reply
      • 24. Lodi Gal  |  October 23, 2010 at 3:16 pm

        Bob Altemeyer, a professor at the University of Manitoba, spent thirty years researching how the NOM crew and other right wing types think and what makes them tick. It’s fascinating stuff, and his entire book is available free online. You can read it here and wonder no more:

        http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

        Reply
      • 25. Sagesse  |  October 24, 2010 at 6:26 am

        @Lodi Gal

        Thanks for posting Altemeyer’s work, The Authoritarians. I am part way through it, and it is insightful. I recommend it to anyone who wants to understand the motivation of the NOM’s and the NOMbies. 261 pdf pages, but a relatively easy read.

        Reply
      • 26. Felyx  |  October 24, 2010 at 6:33 pm

        Wow Lodi! I am reading this book and so much of my world is making sense now. Not only does it help explain NOMbies far better than I ever expected but it even leads to ways the phenomenon can be detected and ameliorated. This book is an amazing read! Fiona would love it to no end and I am sure it would be a popular subject on this site if ever discussed.

        Thank you for posting it.

        Felyx

        (A NOMmer could never read this book! What does anyone want to bet me!)

        Reply
      • 27. Lodi Gal  |  October 24, 2010 at 8:27 pm

        I downloaded the audiobook and listened on my ipod. It’s read by Altemeyer himself, and except for his occasional corny jokes, he does a good job of narrating.

        http://www.audible.com/pd/ref=sr_1_1?asin=B002UZZ63E&qid=1287976604&sr=1-1

        Even if you’re not likely to buy the audiobook, it’s funny to read the reviews. Several NOMer types don’t get it and just hate, hate, hate it!

        I can’t recommend this book highly enough. It’s changed the way I look at the NOMbies and teabaggers.

        Reply
      • 28. Bob  |  October 24, 2010 at 8:34 pm

        Agree, “The Authoritarians” is an interesting read, the only way authoritarians get power, is because their followers bestow it on them, actually, ask them to take that position, so they don’t have to thnk,

        the followers make the difference, on the ground , in our communities, individually, we have to ask ourselves, in what ways we follow, and then break that cycle,

        We can educate or talk about it with our neighbours, and again I would point out the purpose of Rainbow People , against all odds to let our diversity shine, to challenge the followers, in our work place, in our schools, in our homes, in our churches, and in the military, be visible….

        We were born to not follow, we are born to counter that force,

        Reply
      • 29. Felyx  |  October 25, 2010 at 3:50 am

        Agreed about coming out. He writes in the book that he told his class that he was gay. They personally (on average) thought a little less of him but thought better of gays in general. We have to adopt a cooperative strategy… it may be harder for each of individually, (being fired sucks!!!) but as a group it promotes us all to equality. And the best part is… it is a one time deal. After we make the change, future generations will not suffer.

        Thanks for the audiobook. Papa Thom has started to use audiobooks quite a bit and will appreciate this.

        Felyx

        Reply
      • 30. Felyx  |  October 25, 2010 at 4:02 am

        Ok, this line had me laughing out loud!

        “But if authoritarian followers are mistaken about something, will they ever realize it? Not likely, for they appear to have been inoculated against catching the truth when they are wrong.”

        Wow! So true, soooooo true!

        Reply
      • 31. Felyx  |  October 25, 2010 at 4:07 am

        For anyone wondering if you should read this book… I will tantalize you by telling you how this social scientist shows evidence that ‘authoritarians’ have no clue how to run the world and would destroy it if given the chance. Seriously, The free-thinking folks solved all the worlds problems rather quickly… but the NOM types killed themselves off early and brought the world to its knees even after a second chance!!! Terrifyingly scary!

        Felyx

        Reply
      • 32. Felyx  |  October 25, 2010 at 6:08 am

        Oh My God! I am having a freaking epiphany!! If we want instantaneous gay marriage rights across the country all we have to do is rephrase the question into ‘authoritarian’ thinking.
        Seriously!….
        It will go like this…

        1) We all agree that promiscuity is far more evil than Satan himself (regardless of how many Republicans are caught doing it) so we must FORCE the homosexuals to get married to PREVENT them from having too much sex! At least then we can slow down there immoral behaviour and have a chance at saving their souls.

        2) We all agree that pedophilia is worse than promiscuity so we must FORCE homosexuals… especially men, to get married to other self professed homosexual men because we all know FOR A FACT that married people are far less likely to be pedophiles than gays and other morally unfit people.

        3) Even though it is moral imperative to make these homosexuals marry each other and be faithful, we must never allow these ‘civil marriages’ to be recognized as ‘sacramental marriages’ as this would be corrosive to our faith. (Rogue churches that are not really churches can put on ‘sham’ ceremonies for appearances but real churches will maintain their purity.)

        I know this sounds like it wouldn’t work… but after reading this book I realize that these are exactly the arguments that so many NOM types would believe and follow. It smacks of moral correctness, aggressive force to maintain religious superiority and a dogmatic adherence to religious principle.

        I am beginning to realize it is not the truth that matters so much as the message. Reality just confuses the fearful sheeple. If we present a concept that is completely compatible with their message of fear, force and dogma then the change over would be rapid and easy. All it takes is knowing how to talk to them.

        Please respond to this post… I want to know what others think. (Make sure to indicate whether you read the book or not so I will know where you are coming from… I want to hear both sides.)

        Felyx

        Reply
      • 33. Lodi Gal  |  October 25, 2010 at 7:02 am

        Felyx, I think that approach would be 100% instantly effective if they heard it from the right person. That’s the trick. Someone needs to start a megachurch to draw all these folks in and spread the word–they’d believe that. And double bonus–tax exempt status!

        This book needs to be widely read by the message makers in the campaign for equal rights.

        Reply
      • 34. Sheryl, Mormon Mother of a wonderful son who just happens to be gay  |  October 25, 2010 at 8:08 am

        Felix, I especially like this statement of yours:

        “I am beginning to realize it is not the truth that matters so much as the message. Reality just confuses the fearful sheeple. If we present a concept that is completely compatible with their message of fear, force and dogma then the change over would be rapid and easy. All it takes is knowing how to talk to them.”

        After what happened here in Calif. with Prop 8, which not only make homosexual marriage illegal but took away existing rights from a segment of the population (a scary precedent), I totally agree that the message (and how it is presented) is more important than the truth.

        I have not read this book yet.

        Sheryl, Mormon Mother

        Reply
      • 35. Felyx  |  October 25, 2010 at 9:45 am

        @Lodi

        No need for a Megachurch. I would propose a mass email sent to every church head across the nation. Better yet, we should have many people making similar sounding emails mass mailing to everyone both leader and follower. A printed letter sent directly to pastors etc. would also be very effective. Plus, no need for an actual real person either. Just make up a phony Defense of Universal Marriage and Monogamy Organization… or DUMMO, plaster it with religious icons, splice in plenty of biblical passages that somewhat reinforce the message and Voila!!! Instant ‘Authoritarian’ authority that is presenting the ‘right’ message with the ‘proper’ credentials. Make a website with lots of links to NOM and FRC ‘proving’ that ‘gay civil marriage’ can NEVER be the same as ‘real sactimonial marriage’ add lots of ‘testimonials from our gay friends’ that they don’t even believe in ‘religious marriage’ and suddenly we will have ‘evidence’ and ‘proof’ that everyone who is anyone supports this including the gays themselves. Make ‘activist judges’ and the ‘liberal conspiracy’ out as a movement that is just using poor confused homosexual souls for an agenda and in no time we will have another useless law canceling out the first useless DOMA law with the vast Religious Right Claiming a HUGE moral victory!!!

        Worried about the obvious contradiction between DOMA and the ‘gays must only marry gays and cannot force a church to do so’ amendment? Don’t! Just say that the ‘evil spooky liberal agenda’ is trapping and tricking innocent judges to do their bidding but THANK GOD the TRUTH of the tenth amendment is still being used to force the ‘evil liberals’ to recognize that states still have the right to define marriage. Now the ‘good Christians’ can ‘define’ ‘gay civil marriage’ (with identical rights and responsibilities) as being only between homosexuals and ‘real marriage’ as being between a man and a woman blessed by the holy church. Tell them that by doing so we are retaking ‘control’ of the issue, keeping it out of the hands of ‘activist judges’ allowing the people to vote and winning a moral victory for God and society.

        I swear to god in heaven that this would work!!!

        Felyx – Still flabbergasted at all this logical stupidity!

        Reply
    • 36. Rhie  |  October 23, 2010 at 2:35 pm

      I agree. I keep thinking that their money and time could be much better spent. Don’t they also claim to be a Christian organization? Jesus said that if a Christian ignores the needs of the hungry and otherwise needy they won’t meet him ever.

      Reply
      • 37. Tracy  |  October 23, 2010 at 2:38 pm

        Amen!

        Reply
      • 38. Chris B  |  October 24, 2010 at 2:15 am

        @Tracy: Yes, I found FEAR to be a big motivating factor among the religious right groups that I grew up with. Fear that the gov’t will no longer allow religious broadcasts on the radio (big urban legend back in the 80s caused them to write letters to the FCC); fear that they won’t be able to preach what they believe (alcohol is legal, divorce is legal, abortion is legal, etc. and churches are still allowed to preach against those things); fear about people being allowed to do things they don’t agree with (abortion, homosexuality, etc.)

        This is why the right is so good at getting to the polls: They live in fear of losing their rights (even if those fears are completely irrational and illogical) and want to make sure everyone else lives by their moral code.
        (oh, the fear of paying more taxes).

        And, as you said, logic and common sense are not good motivators as fear. I think people also tend to have an opinion and look for evidence that supports their opinions. If someone said “studies have shown that most children raised by lesbian couples don’t grow taller than 3 feet”, they would believe it–because it supports their idea that lesbian couples are bad. (that might be a interesting experiment — set up a web site with a fake scientific study like that and send it out to the anti-gay groups and see how long it would take for it to be disseminated to their followers. Maybe not, though. We already know how much false, and outdated information is being circulated out there as “scientific proof”)

        So the followers already go to NOM, believing that gays are bad. And NOM provides them with ‘facts’. It’s I guess what they call an ‘echo chamber’.

        Reply
      • 39. Rhie  |  October 24, 2010 at 11:17 pm

        Yup. The same things were being said in the 90s and 00s, too. I grew up in it. And yes, fear is a powerful motivator.

        Just look at the persistent legend that poison and razor blades are in or have a good chance of being in candy. It’s all crap, but my town even offered x-raying!

        Never underestimate the power of irrational parents, especially at the polls.

        The way to fight it is with emotional arguments of our own. Turn statistics and science into something a parent can relate to. Instead of saying “Your gay kid is perfectly fine because of x science and statistics” say “How could you, as a mother, even THINK to make your kid so unhappy by judging his love and his very person!?”

        That has been my persistent criticism of the Democrats: Messaging. They absolutely suck at messaging and PR. And, in the end, presentation – not facts and right and wrong – matters the most.

        Reply
    • 40. fiona64  |  October 25, 2010 at 8:22 am

      Why? Because extremists cannot see that any perspective other than their own has validity.

      Love,
      Fiona

      Reply
  • 41. rnegron  |  October 23, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Regarding the adds for Paladino in NY I say; Let them!

    Paladino is TOAST with dog shit on it. Let them waste their money here rather than some where else where they might have a chance.

    Reply
    • 42. Rev. Will Fisher  |  October 23, 2010 at 6:05 pm

      Carl Paladino is SOME embodiment of marital virtue(;

      Reply
    • 43. Anonygrl  |  October 25, 2010 at 7:22 am

      Very true. With Paladino down as much as 37 points in some polls (in Rochester, which, being upstate should be the center of his BASE of supporters!) there is no chance of him winning. Let NOM waste their money here, since they won’t be convincing anyone of anything, pretty much everyone here KNOWS what an ass Paladino is.

      Reply
  • 44. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan)  |  October 23, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    What is it going to take before someone, somewhere, in any branch of our government, has enough balls to stand up for what the Constitution really means, and tell these folks that this is NOT a theocracy, and that if they WANT a theocracy to go somewhere and start one?

    Reply
    • 45. Kate  |  October 23, 2010 at 2:22 pm

      I’d be quite happy if they moved to Iran.

      Reply
      • 46. Tracy  |  October 23, 2010 at 2:37 pm

        Kate, I agree! I think they should go start their own country somewhere. They will then be attacked by a rival theocratic country, taken over (by say …. IRAN), and they will be forced to live by the laws of another religion….. all of a sudden, they might realize the value of a non-theocratic society!

        Reply
      • 47. StraightForEquality  |  October 23, 2010 at 3:26 pm

        Let’s put it to a vote! NOM is big on letting the people vote. Surely we could get a majority to “vote them off the island” or the US.

        Reply
      • 48. StraightForEquality  |  October 23, 2010 at 3:31 pm

        Unfortunately, if voting for NOM folks to leave the US was on the ballot, I would have to vote against it, since I don’t believe that such things should be voted on. It would be hard, though.

        Reply
      • 49. Tracy  |  October 24, 2010 at 8:24 pm

        @StraightForEquality: I do not advocate that we vote on it, other than to say we (have already) voted for freedom and equality in this country, and anyone who is opposed to it is fully empowered and encouraged to leave if they prefer an alternative form of government. THAT’S freedom.

        Reply
      • 50. StraightForEquality  |  October 24, 2010 at 9:28 pm

        @Tracy. I fully agree. Unfortunately it seems that we have to fight constantly to maintain that freedom and equality. But it is a fight worth fighting.

        Reply
    • 51. Kauai Guy  |  October 23, 2010 at 7:39 pm

      If they want to live in a theocracy then all they need to do is move to Iran.

      Reply
  • 52. DaveP  |  October 23, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    I hope I get to check in on Monday to find out what the surprise is. I’m leaving for Buenos Aires early Tuesday for a three week vacation and I may be away from the computer on Monday.

    I also won’t have a computer with me in Buenos Aires so I may be going through 8TT withdrawal : ) But I just recently found out that Buenos Aires will be having their LGBT Pride Festival a few days after I arrive, and since they just legalized SSM a couple fo months ago I’m betting there will be a large contingent of legally married gay newlyweds in the parade so I’ll be sure to cheer them on.

    In case I don’t post again before I leave, just wanted to say ‘bye for now and ‘see’ you all soon!

    Dave P

    Reply
    • 53. Kathleen  |  October 23, 2010 at 2:57 pm

      Hope you have a wonderful time and can’t wait to hear from you on your return!

      Reply
      • 54. DaveP  |  October 23, 2010 at 3:10 pm

        I won’t be able to say this for the three weeks that I’ll be away, so here’s a pre-emptive “Thank You!!” to Kathleen for everything that you do for all of us here : )

        Reply
      • 55. StraightForEquality  |  October 23, 2010 at 3:33 pm

        Hear! Hear! Hurray for Kathleen! And for so many others of you.

        Reply
  • 56. JonT  |  October 23, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Eugene delgaudo’s latest fear piece:

    They have done it again.

    I am talking about the Homosexual Lobby that is. They have found yet another way to infiltrate our schools and pollute our children with their immorality.

    The GLSEN, the Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network, has started a campaign to create a “safe space” for homosexual students in at least 100,000 schools nationwide.

    I assure you this is not something to overlook.

    The campaign uses prepared kits that are distributed to schools by GLSEN, parents, or other individuals to the school of their choosing.

    These kits include ten stickers, two posters, and a forty-two page booklet called “Guide to Being an Ally to LGBT Students.”

    While the stickers and posters blatantly display the upside-down rainbow triangle and pro-homosexual slogan, the booklet is the real threat.

    It includes detailed strategies to instruct teachers and students how to create a school environment more accepting of homosexual students and teach other students their lifestyle as a healthy alternative.

    It also tells students how to get involved in school policy and how to initiate change to promote the Homosexual Agenda in everyday school life.

    What’s worse, at a cost of only $20, these kits can be given to any school by anyone.

    These kits do not make our schools safer, but they certainly spread the lie of the Homosexual Lobby.

    Haha, what a maroon.

    PS: What is also kinda funny about this, is that Thunderbird says that ‘Warning: This message may be a scam.‘.

    Indeed. :)

    Reply
    • 57. Kathleen  |  October 23, 2010 at 3:54 pm

      Poe’s Law in action.

      Reply
    • 58. Joel  |  October 23, 2010 at 3:56 pm

      I can only say that I wish that I had had a “safe place” in the middle school I attended, back in the 70s.

      There was the choir room, but it wasn’t really a great sanctuary from the taunting and the bullying.

      Reply
  • 59. Alex  |  October 24, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    Does anyone know if Jerry Brown becomes governor and Steve Cooley becomes Attorney General does Jerry Brown have the authority to tell Steve Cooley not to defend Prop 8?

    Reply
    • 60. Alan E  |  October 24, 2010 at 5:01 pm

      The governor supercedes the AG. The AG can still submit a brief, but the governor would have final say if s/he disagrees with the AG.

      Reply
  • 61. Ray in MA  |  October 24, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    OT on a slow Sunday night…

    http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/10c/six_flags/index.html

    BTW, one of those ‘Four Men’ has raised tens of thousands of dollars for local charities and benefits over the years… I would safely guess more than the entire MassResistance.

    (Miss Kitty Litter second from left)

    Reply
  • 62. Rich  |  October 24, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    Eugene Delgaudo would have loved my high school: 2 bulletin board postings…..GAY AND PROUD with posters of historic and current out national figures, to celebrate October as “Coming Out” month. Everyone, flood the NOM site with your e-mails. Let them know where you stand. Be prepared that they will “moderate” you out of their site but the more we contact them, the more they know we keep them in our sites.

    Reply
  • 63. Tony Douglass in Ca  |  October 24, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    This showed up on the “About” thread this afternoon, I thought it should get more prominent attention:

    50. fand | October 24, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Retired Judge & family law expert Donald Knight has just submitted a powerful Amicus brief for the Plaintiffs-Respondents. In a mere 23 pages, he demolishes every contention of the Appellants. His argument is based on actual California Law. Everyone who is interested in this case should read this! Document 150. (Available free on Justia, if you can stand Scribd.)
    (He also submitted a passionate post-trial brief in January.)
    Reply

    *

    51. fand | October 24, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    My apologies: The judge’s name is Donald B. King.

    I don’t have scribd, so maybe someone can find it and post a link.

    Reply
    • 64. Kathleen  |  October 24, 2010 at 5:33 pm

      Here’s the brief. Most documents for the case can be found at my Scribd account.

      Reply
      • 65. Tony Douglass in Ca  |  October 24, 2010 at 5:47 pm

        Thank you, that was a good read! That was a fantastic brief, and great to hear it from someone with such a distinguished career and impeccable credentials!!

        Reply
      • 66. MJFargo  |  October 24, 2010 at 6:24 pm

        Boy. Justice King rips into it, doesn’t he? I hope both Olson/Boies and the 9th take note. I particularly liked the section comparing Prop 8 to anti-miscegenation laws. That should pop a few blood vessels. Justice King is a ferocious advocate for children and families and I’m humbled (and proud) he offered this brief.

        Reply
      • 67. Chris B  |  October 25, 2010 at 2:53 am

        Thanks Tony & Kathy.

        Working my way through it. I am really excited to read:

        “Put simply, a law that restricts marriage only to opposite-sex couples does not increase the number of opposite-sex households, nor does it decrease the number of same-sex households. Thus, even if the “optimal” environment for a child is to be reared in a home with her biological father and biological mother, Proposition 8 does nothing to increase the prevalence of such “optimal” households, and the law is therefore irrational.”

        That whole section goes on to argue that with or without Prop 8, gay and lesbian couples will still raise children, and the whole “optimal-enviroment-for-raising-children” argument is irrelevant.

        That has been my argument: Prop 8 does not do anything to keep these gay and lesbian families from existing. It just takes away the word ‘marriage’ from them. They still have access to state-recognized domestic partnerships, adoption, etc. All these children/procreation arguments are not important, considering that Prop 8 did nothing to keep SS couples from adopting and raising kids. (and, the brief goes on to say, the state doesn’t use ‘optimal’ parenting skills to determine which straight couples can get married.

        On a cynical note, this brief was filed on behalf of the American Association of Marital Lawyers (i.e. Divorce Lawyers).

        Reply
  • 68. Sagesse  |  October 24, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    Not an uplifting message, but it needs to be said….

    The Relationship Between Gay Suicides, Bullying and “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fred-silberberg/the-relationship-between-_b_772108.html

    Reply
    • 69. Bob  |  October 24, 2010 at 8:19 pm

      Relationship Between Bullying and DADT BINGO right on, my sentiments exactly as I posted on earlier, and how are we teaching our kids to deal with bullying, just say NO, stand up to it, we tell our kids that , but not the adults, not to the adults we say, change gov’t , blame Obama, but whatever you do don’t stand up personally cause it might cost you.,

      Let’s stop placing the pressure on the kids, and be adults about this and face it where it comes from , as adults we teach our children, Yes we need to pressure gov’t and especially the military, but we need people on the ground to do that, not some political agenda, If the people who are experiencing the bullying, and their allies, cause lets not forget if it happens around you , you are affected. say NO, it just has to stop, DADT is institutionalzed bullying, just stop it, and clean up the mess later. this article is bang on

      So what do we do, wait for congress to act, or do the people just say NO,

      Reply
  • 70. Tracy  |  October 25, 2010 at 12:12 am

    I have to admit that I’m shocked that Obama, in light of recent tragic incidents of gay bullying and subsequent suicide, took such a deliberate and public step in favor of sanctioning the continued (and senseless) discrimination of our government against gay Americans. He may, in fact, prefer a legislative solution that is less controversial, for the glory of his own political legacy — no doubt he desires another feather in his proverbial cap. Or perhaps he has merely been posturing, with no intention of working for a repeal.

    Either way, he knows he is safe from our wrath — for what is the alternative? A return to the homophobic GOP regime of years past? No, he considers himself safe from that fate, at least from this quarter.

    Tragic. Can anyone say politically powerless?

    Reply
    • 71. Tracy  |  October 25, 2010 at 12:18 am

      Forgive my rant, please — it’s just frustrating to be so powerless while those with power do nothing.

      Reply
      • 72. Bob  |  October 25, 2010 at 1:45 pm

        Tracy, don’t apologize, rant away, anger is justified here, the reality is , as a minority, we are politically powerless, and can easily be out voted, that is part of the winning argument for the prop8 case, making it necessary for the courts to step in.

        With regards to DADT, it appears that those with power do nothing, so what will it take to get them to use their power in our favour. That is the question, and I think to say we are powerless in this situation, places us in the position of followers, perhaps not by choice but by resignation, what alternative is there? What action could be taken

        It’s a strange situation in the military, if LGBT people are being bullied to the same extent as those in the schools, why do we not see, the effects of that , i.e. more people walking out, or even deaths, I suspect for one thing that gays aren’t targeted to the same extent by their peers, the guys in the barracks, make friends and get along, perhaps there is bullying but it would go unreported in tht environment it’s the superiors who do the bullying, keeping everyone in line by threat of discharge, are there stories of people on the ground bullying each other??? If that were happening we’d hear more stories of servicemembers leaving the milietary, but in those cases if it was someone who wasn’t out to their friends and family, they wouldn’t make an issue of it.
        If a servicemember was bullied by peers, that would draw attention to them and superiors would use that situation to reinforce their position re disturbance to unit cohesion, I haven’t heard of that.

        well probably a lot of nonsense, but the whole military situation is very bizarre,

        Reply
  • 73. Kathleen  |  October 25, 2010 at 10:11 am

    UPDATE Perry

    Amicus brief by Constitutional Accountability Center in support of Plaintiffs (Appellees). 10/25/2010

    I just woke – There’s another brief in for Perry and I’ll also get the reply from LCR up.

    Reply
    • 74. Kathleen  |  October 25, 2010 at 10:27 am

      I misread the new post re: LCR v USA. I thought the answering brief by LCR re: the stay pending appeal had been filed. It has not. The only new think on the docket is the court has officially removed Rumsfeld from the list of parties and replaced him with Robert M. Gates.

      I’ll be posting amicus briefs in Perry as they come in today and will check occasionally for the LCR answer. In the meantime, if anyone hears that LCR has filed, please let me know (here, facebook, email, etc) and I’ll retrieve the brief.

      Reply
  • 75. Kathleen  |  October 25, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Amicus brief by Bay Area Lawyers for Individual Freedom (“BALIF”), et al., in support of Plaintiffs (Appellees). 10/25/2010

    Reply

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