December 24, 2010 at 7:39 am 72 comments

By Adam Bink

By now, most of you have seen the response video from NOM over the FCKH8 vide0s (on marriage and bullies)

Like Jeremy Hooper, I liked the video but wasn’t thrilled about (a) the strategy of using kids (b) how the video would present to the movable middle. I think some tactics are meant for rallying the base and exciting marriage supporters- which this clearly was and did- while others are not. There wasn’t much in the video about responsibility, commitment, equality, or other messages shown to be effective to persuading open-minded non-equality supporters. You can’t argue with raising $200K, but I might have tweaked how it was done a bit to appeal universally.

On the other hand, like Jeremy, I think NOM using kids to attack the use of kids is, well typical. And for all the concerns about the FCKH8 video, raising cash off this is far worse. As you know from my writing around the NOM bus tours, I’m never one to stay away from confrontational tactics, so if NOM is going to take this and use it in the way we all knew they would, it only further drives me to kick their butt in 2011.

What do you think of it all?

Entry filed under: Community/Meta, NOM Exposed, Right-wing.

Golden Oldies open thread, December 23rd Happy holidays, P8TTers!

72 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Straight For Equality  |  December 24, 2010 at 7:41 am

    • 2. Ed Cortes  |  December 24, 2010 at 7:48 am

      More NOMsense??

    • 3. Ann S.  |  December 24, 2010 at 10:39 am


      • 4. JonT  |  December 24, 2010 at 2:44 pm

        • 5. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 25, 2010 at 7:59 am


  • 6. Ed  |  December 24, 2010 at 7:41 am

    I put this in the other thread, but wanna put it here too…
    VP Biden says what we all know, and what Maggie and NOM are scared of…
    Fast forward to the 5:40 mark.

  • 7. Mandi  |  December 24, 2010 at 7:43 am


  • 8. Ronnie  |  December 24, 2010 at 7:46 am

    I think NOM needs to get over themselves….. : I …..Ronnie

    • 9. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 24, 2010 at 11:04 am


  • 10. Ed  |  December 24, 2010 at 7:54 am

    Pull up the vid on youtube…..33 likes vs 1027 dislikes….
    Yup, good job NOM

    • 11. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 24, 2010 at 11:05 am


  • 12. Leo  |  December 24, 2010 at 8:15 am

    OT: It appears the briefing schedule in DOMA appeal has been pushed back three weeks. The government’s opening brief is now due on 01/13/2011.

    Kathleen/Ann: what could this mean: the docket shows a “NOTICE of appearance on behalf of Movant(s) Family Research Council filed by Attorney Paul Benjamin Linton” and a “NOTICE of appearance on behalf of Movant(s) National Organization for Marriage filed by Attorney William C. Duncan,” but does not show any actual motions. It’s not time for amicus briefs yet, so what could they possibly be moving for?

    • 13. Kathleen  |  January 6, 2011 at 10:01 am

      Leo, I missed this thread and your question (holidays). I don’t have an answer for you. As you probably know by now, I’m weak in procedural law (but sure am learning a lot! hehe).

      One wild speculation is that these groups MIGHT be intending to file motions to intervene in order to ‘vigorously defend’ DOMA. I know they’ve claimed the gov’t has been throwing the fight. MAYBE the Court requires a notice of appearance by the attorneys before such a motion can be filed. But this is just me speculating on a possibility; I really don’t know what it means.

    • 14. Kathleen  |  January 6, 2011 at 10:06 am

      As an aside, where are you viewing the docket? Are you registered with PACER? If there’s somewhere else to view it other than PACER, I’d love to know because I incur a charge every time I view it through my account.

    • 15. Kathleen  |  January 7, 2011 at 6:55 pm

      Leo, they’ve filed notices of appearance as attorneys for amici.

  • 16. Christoph  |  December 24, 2010 at 8:23 am

    Although I’m not crazy about overusing the “F” word, I really think the time has come to let it rip.
    (And, as for the kids in the video actually being the ones shouting these words, get over it NOM; I’m sure it’s all dubbed.) No big deal !!
    Oh, and Merry Fucking xmas, Brian and Maggie !!

    • 17. Brittney  |  December 24, 2010 at 10:07 am

      I completely agree with you chris. I love the fckh8 videos. They speak the truth, so what if the kids are saying the big bad “f” word. oooooo. Who gives a fuck? I think it’s getting the messege across and the NOMbies need to get the fuck over themselves! <3

      • 18. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 24, 2010 at 11:05 am


  • 19. Richard A. Jernigan  |  December 24, 2010 at 8:37 am

    While I was not exactly thrilled with the language of the FCKH8 video, I see it as extremely hypocritical of NOM to exploit children while claiming to be against child exploitation.

  • 20. Sagesse  |  December 24, 2010 at 9:02 am

    Must confess I have reservations about the FCKH8 videos. The messages are great, and they’re well produced, entertaining and funny. Having kids deliver a positive message in support of their parents and friends is good. The merchandise is good too. I have no problem with adults using the F-word, and oddly, I have no problem with kids watching the messages.

    But these videos are going to upset or offend an audience that might otherwise be receptive because the kids use the F-word. They take some of the hateful speech that is aimed at LGBT youth and legitimize it. Once you imply it’s ok for kids to use the word, the only difference between us and them is who it is directed at. The function of messaging is to reach the audience, and to persuade them to your point of view. These videos compromise their effectiveness by sending a mixed message. The FCKH8 videos do not feel like the ‘high road’ to me, only because of the way the children are presented (I don’t think they’re being used). Feels like the equality supporters have descended to their opponents’ level.

    My son is now 25, but when he was about 9, he was staying up late enough to see movies and other programs on TV that used ‘bad language’. And there were movies that I didn’t object to him watching, but which used language. We made a deal. So long as he didn’t use those words at home, he could watch. To this day we use civil conversation in this house.

    My age is showing (sigh). Feel free to tell me I need to join the twenty-first century :).

    • 21. Richard A. Jernigan  |  December 24, 2010 at 9:17 am

      Actually, Sagesse, your latest comment only reinforces my opinion that you helped usher in the 21st century by helping to demonstrate the ideals of civility, respect, dignity, and equality! Too bad we can’t get Maggie, Brian et al. to join us here in the 21st century.

    • 22. Sheryl Carver  |  December 24, 2010 at 10:01 am

      I agree with all you wrote, Sagasse. You said it better than I ever could.

      • 23. Sagesse  |  December 24, 2010 at 11:41 am

        I don’t mean to sound like a prude, because I’m not. My son and I both knew the words are everywhere, and there’s no avoiding them. It was a ‘house rule’ that attempted to keep them from taking over our everyday conversation, and it has worked for us. That’s not to say that neither of us uses the words on occasion, or that we haven’t said them to each other, on occasion. And, as Gregory has pointed out, others can have ‘house rules’ that work for them.

        I personally don’t find the videos offensive; I was more reacting to public perception.

      • 24. Kathleen  |  January 6, 2011 at 10:24 am

        I also agree. I’m not a prude, am not offended by the video, understand what motivates it, but don’t see it as being particularly effective in the larger arena.

        I use the F word a lot in casual conversation in environs where I know it’s not offensive (unless my intent is to offend) but am conscious of when it’s not particularly appropriate. (btw, I’m not spelling it out only so that my comment won’t get blocked by filters).

        My children seemed to have figured out its context when they were quite young without me having to say anything. One day my youngest, about 3 at the time, was running around in circles in the room, chanting the F word over and over, like a kind of mantra. His older brother (5y.o.) came in and informed him “you shouldn’t use that word; it’s just a word for Daddy to use when he’s working on cars.”

        • 25. Ann S.  |  January 6, 2011 at 10:54 am

          That’s so funny. DH taught our daughter that it’s a word to use when working on plumbing.

        • 26. Rhie  |  January 6, 2011 at 6:37 pm

          Aw that’s cute!

    • 27. Chris B  |  December 24, 2010 at 2:56 pm

      I agree, Sagesse. All this video does is give more ammo to the right (as if they need any, since they make most of it up anyway), and alienates people in the middle.

      • 28. BK  |  December 25, 2010 at 1:05 am

        I agree with both Chris and Sagesse. It doesn’t seem likely that we can win hearts in the more conservative crowd by having children cuss. It may be just my weird self, but the video repelled me. But it’s fine if the intended audience enjoys the video–it’s just that, as Chris stated, this video arms the right-wingers. Anyways… merry Christmas, happy New Year, and whatever other holidays you may celebrate this time of year!

  • 29. Justin  |  December 24, 2010 at 9:07 am

    Well, I’ll be buying a few FCKH8 shirts for my friends and family as belated Xmas gifts. And wasn’t NOM behind THIS stupid video?:

    Sure, they don’t curse, but I think it’s far worse than the FCKH8 video because it’s conditioning kids to be fearful bigots. Shame on NOM!

    • 30. BK  |  December 25, 2010 at 1:08 am

      Blegh. Stinkin’ ad. >:(

      LOL @ the ‘Crackers need to be Square”…

  • 31. Richard A. Jernigan  |  December 24, 2010 at 9:33 am

    Bob just sent me this link to the speech Susan Rice gave at the UN on Human Rights Day. It is definitely worth reading.

    • 32. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 24, 2010 at 11:13 am

      loved it! especially this part:
      “At home, President Obama continues to support repeal of the so-called Defense of Marriage Act, so that committed gay couples can have the same rights and responsibilities as any married couple. ”

      Anyone know status of HR1024 or similar efforts?
      note: I tried the post the link to HR1024 but this site won’t allow it..the above article talks about HR1024 and has a link to The Library of Congress and Bill summary.

      • 33. Bob  |  December 24, 2010 at 12:39 pm

        Adam, maybe courage campaign could make a full post about this article re the U.N. and also Gregory’s reference to the status of Doma HR1024

        I’m wondering if the grant money talked about may be a source for transgender people to get assistance with medical costs ??

        interesting to have a discussion on how the U.N. may be an ally for us, i.e. put pressure on the republicans and their anti – LGB rehtoric…

        • 34. Bob  |  December 24, 2010 at 12:42 pm

          that’s LGBT sorry, don’t forget the T T T T , what’s so special about Rice’s speach is that she was inclusive re LGBT human rights issues….

          • 35. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 24, 2010 at 3:14 pm

            thanks for all your contributions here Bob : ) Happy Holidays!

  • 36. Bob  |  December 24, 2010 at 9:59 am

    thanks for posting that Richard, it would be interesting to have some feedback from other’s here ,

    the letter seems more of a nice gesture than anything with clout, but perhaps eventually we can make it work for us…

    I am wondering about paragraph ten,,, where there is mention of a grant that was created last summer, for the prupose of lending aid to activists working in the area of LGBT rights, and actual people who are LGBT, does anyone know of that grant, and has anyone been able to access any funds from it……

    Also in re-reading, it appears that the U.S. finally stood for inclusion of LGBT people as a protected group against killings but did they fail in that bid….

    I think it’s important for us to become aware of our status at the U.N. and the attempt the U.S. has finally made for our inclusion there……

  • 37. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 24, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Hello everyone! HUGS from Salt Lake City!

    I had a transformational response to this video, and since its a “quiet” day @P8TT and here(at work), I would like to share….and so I can capture this moment, this feeling…that maybe this is a chance for me to GET OVER MYSELF…. I totally support that Sagesse chooses to maintain “civility” at their home…but it happens people at my house do occasionally use the word FUCK …how do I respond? And like Justin, I’m considering buy some FCKH8 shirts to wear and give away….

    1) Having never heard of the FCKH8 campaign before (as I normally have an aversion to “bad language” and skip over “that part” in media)….guess I missed the FCKH8 stuff altogether…..I watched the NOM response first.

    2) While reviewing the NOM version, I was a little surprised/shocked at the kids using the “F” word and wonder if NOM was criticizing a parody someone made? I was confused, worried, nervous…is “our side” sending the wrong message??

    3)…. So of course I was curious(THANKS NOM!) about what the fuss was about so I went back to find the original FCKH8 video….I was a more than just a little nervous to watch it… the end I was sobbing…..

    4) I spent much of my life being socialized that the word FUCK is BAD…and anyone that uses it excessively is BAD and lacking in vocabulary. What does FUCK even mean?!?! I’ve noticed Drag queens use that word A LOT….and that has been one thing about Drag shows that has made me uncomfortable…. though the way RuPaul uses “…don’t FUCK it up!” on her Drag Race show “FUCK”seems like a sincere, caring even elegant expression…

    5) Yesterday my hubby was very frustrated because late for an appointment and he said “I can’t find my fucking keys”. It made me shudder, but mostly felt sympathetic because he was running late….and he immediately apologized for “using the ‘F’ word”. I asked myself…why does my hubby feel he needs to apologize…what is it in MY previous responses that caused him to feel he needs to apologize…..for “being himself” and expressing what he honestly feels?

    6) Why was I sobbing?…”Get over yourself!” the FCKH8 video declares…. I feel my Christian/Mormon “puritanism” has been a barrier in my relationship with my hubby. I have a 13-year old daughter who started using FUCK around me sometimes (though, she confides not around her mother…”Mom wouldn’t understand like you that its ‘just a word'”) Guess I’m a good actor because I didn’t shudder or mention to my daughter anything when she swears…though she uses FUCK like “That’s FUCKING awesome!”

    7) I watched the FCKH8 video and….I LOVED it! Its full of beautiful, honest, courageous, loving people that “get it” that FUCK is just a word….and its the HATE HATE HATE that NOM and “family” organizations spew that is the big offense—go could on for about hours about NOM’s FUCKING BULLSHIT!

    I sobbed because of a lifetime of being socialized with Mormon/Christian/suffocating values that didn’t match my true self. I sobbed for self-righteous garbage I’ve put my hubby through. I sobbed for feeling critical to anyone who uses FUCK as a personal expression, I sobbed happy tears for the cute kids in the FCKH8 video who have parents who teach them FUCK used like this is powerful word to express we will not tolerate the discrimination and hate anymore….. I sob for all of you that endure pain and suffering because of the FUCKING hate you’ve endured.

    Tons of Love from Salt Lake City….Blessings, Peace and Happiness to all!

    • 38. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 24, 2010 at 10:40 am

      p.s. – THANK YOU ADAM for posting this today. I do not relate to some of the topics posted here but this one PUNCHED me in the stomach/heart/mind/soul hard and I am grateful : )

      • 39. anonygrl  |  January 6, 2011 at 9:43 am

        Wow! Just Wow!

        Gregory, with this, and your comment about abortion the other day, and various comments you have made lately, I feel like I am watching you blossom and explode out of your self imposed shell, and it is lovely to watch. Thank you so much for sharing these thoughts with us, for letting us enjoy, by proxy, the exhiliration you seem to be discovering in letting go of restrictions that others imposed on you for so many years, and also ones that you accepted and held on to and are now reexamining. I know you to be a good person already, that has always been evident, but to experience you re-examining things you always thought were true, and discovering your own truths is very touching.

        Thanks for sharing it!

        • 40. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  January 6, 2011 at 10:12 am

          :::blushing::: and, yes, crying, at your comments the one-and-only fabulous anonygrl!

  • 41. Nelson G  |  December 24, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Personally, I believe the kids in the FCKH8 video should be admired and respected for appearing in the video and standing up to anti-gay bullies.

    However, I have none for those who are trying to make excuses for their cowardice and ignorance, distancing themselves from FCKH8, when everyone, everyone, should be in solidarity with them.

    But then that’s been one of the underlying problems that exist within the LGBT activist community. The cut and running that happens every time someone tries to take a stand against the anti-gay opposition and the arrogance, ignorance, divisiveness, apathy, hating, and hypocrisy that comes with that cowardice; all of it at that individual or organization, not at NOM or whoever it is designated the hater of the day.

    Thankfully, it would appear that FCKh8 isn’t ready to be intimidated by anyone and will do fine; no thanks to those activists and bloggers who were so quick to mire themselves in apology and capitulation.

    • 42. Sheryl Carver  |  December 24, 2010 at 12:42 pm

      Disagreeing with one aspect of the FCKH8 is hardly a symptom of cowardice. It’s just disagreeing.

      • 43. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 24, 2010 at 1:52 pm

        that makes sense Sheryl….I certainly do not expect everyone to agree with my “rant” above….and anyone that doesn’t, I wouldn’t call you or anyone else a coward. Heck(ok, HELL) Me and my hubby have different opinions about many things!

        • 44. Sheryl Carver  |  December 24, 2010 at 3:08 pm

          Plus, it would be a very boring world without different opinions & ideas.

          Have a Happy Holiday Season, Gregory & hubby! May 2011 be kind to us all!

          • 45. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 24, 2010 at 3:09 pm

            u2! : D

    • 46. anonygrl  |  January 6, 2011 at 9:50 am

      I honestly don’t care for the FCKH8 video. I watched it, I get it, I appreciate the sentiment, but for me, I didn’t need all the FCKs to get the point.

      I support what they say, yes. I just don’t like the way they said it.

      That being said, good for them for taking a tack which, while it doesn’t speak to ME, seems to be working. I am equally sure that some of the things *I* like don’t speak to others, and that is ok too.

      • 47. Straight For Equality  |  January 6, 2011 at 12:30 pm

        I agree with you anonygrl. I am not comfortable with it, although I am not offended. But then, too, I am 71. Old codgers like me probably react differently from young adults. As they say, “Different strokes for different folks.”

        • 48. Rhie  |  January 6, 2011 at 6:34 pm

          Heh, well I am 28, and it’s not appealing to me either. I understand it but I don’t tend to like shock n ya’ll tactics. But, hey, that’s me. Other people obviously disagree – look at the response. And it is opening up a conversation.

          Allies don’t have to agree on every program, all the time. Our diversity is our strength.

          • 49. Richard A. Jernigan  |  January 6, 2011 at 10:48 pm

            Our diversity is only part of our strength. It is our community’s acceptance of diversity that is our true strength. The fact that we are a community made up of Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, Atheists, men, women, young, old, in between, black, white, yellow, brown, red, blonde, brunette, redhead, grey hair, no hair, and from all social and economic backgrounds is proff of that. We have just about every profession and educational grouping represented here, and we have woven a fabric that is stronger than anyone could have imagined in January of 2010 when this site started. We have truly proven the beauty of fabric that is woven from the complete array of fibers.

          • 50. Rhie  |  January 6, 2011 at 11:05 pm

            Yes, you are right. Being accepting of that diversity is what makes us different than NOM and their ilk.

          • 51. Kathleen  |  January 6, 2011 at 11:10 pm

            Beautifully said, Richard.

          • 52. Richard A. Jernigan  |  January 6, 2011 at 11:53 pm

            Thank you, Rhie and Kathleen. I truly believe that the reason I have learned so much since joining this site last January is the very diversity of the family this has become for me. I have been enlightened about so many different things that have affected each of us in so many different ways, and have learned about the law, more about transgender issues, learned about our binational couples, and have actually read here about births, deaths, marriages, and so many other life issues. We have really shared so much of how the equality issue affects each of us here, even when we may be people that do not seem to have any reason to benefit. And I feel so much richer because of that. The tapestry we have woven here has a lot of gold in and amongst the fibers, and that gold has reflected all of the other colors in it.

  • 53. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 24, 2010 at 10:41 am

    DITTO to everything you said Nelson G!

  • 54. Chris From CO  |  December 24, 2010 at 10:53 am

    OT: Hey, I just checked into NOMs website and noticed they are letting us speak. Is their going to be an open discussion now or were my eyes fooling me. Someone look at it and tell me if it was a fluke.

  • 55. Richard A. Jernigan  |  December 24, 2010 at 11:08 am

    Here is what happened when I posted my comment on their blog. I thought I would also post it here so that it can be seen in the very probable event that it gets deleted before seeing the light of day at their website.

    Richard A. Jernigan
    Posted December 24, 2010 at 3:05 pm | Permalink
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    People also said that interracial marriage would devalue the institution of marriage, and yet it has not. So long as two consenting adults want to enter into a committed, lifelong marriage with each other, and seek LEGAL, CIVIL recognition of the same, it should be granted. Our Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law, as well as freedom of association and that no rights shall be taken away from any American citizen without due process. And freedom of religious expression is for ALL of us, not only those who happen to agree with a particular viewpoint. Those of us who are in favor of marriage equality are not trying to keep heterosexual couples from getting married, nor are we seeking to get married in churches, synagogues, mosques or any other religious building that does not want to recognize marriage equality. However, by denying marriage equality, our churches, mosques, synagogues and other houses of worship which DO recognize these marriages are being DENIED our freedom of religious expression.

    • 56. Richard A. Jernigan  |  December 25, 2010 at 3:05 pm

      Well, I just checked the NOM site to see if my comment had survived moderation, and guess what? To nobody’s surprise, it has been deleted. The very people who accused Steve Jobs and Apple of CENSORSHIP over the Manhattan Declaration are themselves censoring material that they deem “inappropriate” and/or “offensive,” i.e.: Anything that does not line up exactly with the mesaage they want their sheeple to see!

  • 57. Lodrelhai  |  December 24, 2010 at 11:30 am

    You know, I spent about a year and a half teaching preschool, and several years working in a video store, and I think one of the lessons I learned there is relevant:

    Family values, like everything else, are relative.

    I’ve known parents who’d be shocked and appalled at the word “damn” slipping from another adult’s mouth, and kids who used the f-bomb as a synonym for “very.” Had some families who’s teenagers weren’t allowed to watch PG movies without parental screening, and others who went together to watch slasher films. And I dealt with just as many kids – including preschoolers – from each side that were happy little darlings, and just as many that were insufferable little brats.

    That said, what did I think of the FCKH8 videos? I liked them, but they’re not for everyone. Certainly never going to show them to my parents; my mom in particular would have a seizure over kids cursing. But they were entertaining, they made their point, the kids seemed to be having a good time, and there’s no way those videos was made without the consent of their parents/guardians, so if it’s okay on that front then I’m okay with it.

    What do I think about the NOM reaction? As usual, they missed the point and focused entirely on their own offended sensibilities. If they want to really protect those kids, they need to stop focusing on the harmless behavior their actual legal protectors allow and pay attention to what the kids are saying: Don’t fuck with their gay families!

    • 58. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 24, 2010 at 11:40 am

      Oh! That is what it means!
      “kids who used the f-bomb as a synonym for “very.”

      This post has been transformational for me today. Your comments help me understand even better and judge less. thank you Lodrelhai!

  • 59. Chris in Lathrop  |  December 24, 2010 at 11:39 am

    I love The whole point is to ask people which is most offensive: cursing, kids cursing, or anti-LGBT hatred? And what a slick runner-up NOM’s added into the mix with their hypocrisy!

    • 60. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 24, 2010 at 11:53 am


  • 61. Rhie  |  December 24, 2010 at 1:40 pm


  • 62. Taelyn  |  December 24, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    Maybe this is my youth showing, but I LOVED the FCKH8 videos! My family was a conservative, Catholic family on my fronts, but even they realized that sometimes, the word that fits best is considered offensive to some. I quickly realized that, to be an effective speaker and writer, the best approach is to use the word with the most accurate and effective connotation. I, for one, didn’t really give a shit if that meant someone found my language offensive.

    The video itself raised several wonderful points – “Don’t fuck with my queer daddies” being one of my favorites. That the kids were saying it just goes to illustrate that when hate wins, the ENTIRE family loses, and not just NOM’s limited definition of the word, “family,” either.

    Of course NOM would turn it around into a fundraising moment; that’s their only real purpose outside of spin doctoring. Nothing they do surprises me anymore; all we can do is support good LGBT groups.

    By the way, surely if you’ve seen the video you know that Courage Campaign is one of the groups cited in the FCKH8 video that they’re aiming for. Thought it was perfect, no qualms about it at all.

    ~Sera Wohldmann, transgender lesbian just wishing that one day the wonderful woman in her life can become her wife.

    • 63. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 25, 2010 at 6:10 am

      Thank you for chiming in Taelyn/Sera! I love that part too “Don’t fuck with my queer daddies” the kid didn’t blush, no grownup swooped down to say “oh! you shouldn’t say that!” What a gift for that child to have freedom of expression….. Happy Holidays to your family…Please keep informed of any wedding news! Love, Gregory

  • 64. Robin  |  December 25, 2010 at 1:00 am

    The FCKH8 video is my legit favorite thing in the world. It makes me so happy. Sure it’s bad PR, but the chances of changing homophobes’ minds are so vanishingly small anyway that I honestly don’t think it can make all that much difference. And I am so sick of hearing people go on about how homophobes are such lovely people whose opinions I should respect. I don’t respect their opinions because they don’t respect my existence.

    • 65. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 25, 2010 at 6:10 am


  • 66. Martin the Brit  |  December 25, 2010 at 2:30 am

    I’ve felt sort of conflicted about the FCKH8 campaign ever since I saw NOM’s video but I definitely think there’s more than one way to look at this.

    On the one hand I don’t think this is going to be an effective message to persuade the moveable middle to support marriage equality, and it’s obviously going to be used as ammunition by people like NOM.

    On the other hand the campaign is very frank, honest and unapologetic. It’s about calling a spade a spade, getting off the back foot and not playing on the defensive. Far too often it’s the ‘family values’ groups who are dictating the dialogue. They throw accusations and we scramble to disprove them, all the while apologising profusely for existing or even having the audacity to question the status quo.

    Gregory in Salt Lake City really hit the nail on the head with his post above. To paraphrase (I hope you don’t mind), why should anyone be more upset by people using a word than an attitude that devalues human beings and their families and fosters a climate of prejudice? That’s very powerful.

    I’m still in two minds about this but I think the final arbiter for me will be how positive the overall effect of the campaign is. Does it energise people or just offend?

    Anyway, Merry Christmas to everyone.

    • 67. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  December 25, 2010 at 6:55 am

      I appreciated your thoughtful comments : ) I don’t know about anyone in movable middle “moving” because of this but video but it most certainly moved me and I am immensely grateful. I have been one of those who would censure others around me for watching the “bad” movie, the wrong activity or for finding delight in “vulgarity”–I’ve walked out of MANY movies & left conversations because I was taught not to expose myself to offensive things…

      As I wake up on this Christian holiday and come to work so that other families can celebrate their Christmas traditions, I imagine many Christians waking up, sharing a Christmas story, a prayer, a moment of rare closeness…then FUCKING it up by preaching to their kids gender comes in only 2 forms and that people who use the word FUCK are bad and its OK to discriminate those who live like me, or people who come from another country, or look different from them.

      I don’t expect I’ll start using the word FUCK on a regular basis now by personal choice, but not because I find it bad or offensive. Today I am not afraid or offended by the “F” word and for this I am sincerely grateful(with real tears and all…) Thank you FCKH8 campaign for exposing a real fear and hangup of mine IN MY FACE and helping get rid of it.

  • 68. VanInSanDiego  |  December 29, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Hi Folks,

    Having seen and loved the FCK H8 videos (and bought the shirts and buttons and bumper stickers) and having seen the NOM video and having read through all the comments and taking them as a whole, my points have been made so I can summarize them in short order here:

    1. fuck is a cuss word no matter who uses it, child or adult, but it is so overused that it has lost all its punch so fucking get over it;
    2. who the fuck is NOM to fucking decide whether a fucking child fucking says it
    3. it is the fucking responsibility of the fucking child’s fucking parents or fucking guardians to fucking decide whether the fucking child fucking says it
    4. mind your own fucking business, NOM
    5. the word fuck is very versatile–noun, verb, adjective, etc.
    6. religion is the root of all evil
    7. any fucking questions?

    Best wishes and happy new year,

    Van in San Diego

  • 69. Ronnie  |  December 29, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    i just posted this on the newest “Golden Oldies” thread…but I’ll repost here…..

    Oh how I hope NOM gets sued for violating copyright laws…not only are they using clips from the FCKH8 video without permission from the creator…but they are now using a photo from the video to raise money, also without permission from the creator….
    NOM’s hypocrisy knows no bounds…their inability to abide by the laws of this country also knows no bounds…..this is so classy…..I specifically enjoyed this statement from Good As You:
    “The boy in the image? Yea, that would be one of the kids from the FCKH8 video. As in: A kid whose pro-equality parent/s presumably know about his involvement. As in: A kid who never asked for NOM’s “protection.” As in: A kid who is not one of NOM’s children, but rather a young member of NOM’s pointed opposition. As in: A kid who NOM says is exploited via his sanctioned participation in the FCKH8 campaign, yet feels is being “protected” by this unsanctioned, forcible participation in NOM’s own fundraising efforts. How dare Maggie and Brian and company use this kid in this way?!”
    NOM with all do resect…..Go F(BLEEP)K yourself…I hope you are forced to use every cent you begged for from your sheeple the last few months…..Your blatant violation of copyright laws is unethical & immoral & quite frankly makes you look like a thief…so many sins…..REPENT!!!…..REPENT!!!!…….Good job NOM…..FAIL!!!!!!!…….<3….Ronnie

  • […] The quote is a bit out of context. Here’s what I actually wrote (in a piece about how sad and typical it is that NOM is fundraising off kids themselves): Like Jeremy Hooper, I […]

  • […] The quote is a bit out of context. Here’s what I actually wrote (in a piece about how sad and typical it is that NOM is fundraising off kids themselves): Like Jeremy Hooper, I […]


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