Open thread: Arizona Congresswoman Gabby Giffords shot, along with others

January 8, 2011 at 12:44 pm 145 comments

By Adam Bink

If you haven’t heard the news yet, AZ Democratic Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, recently re-elected, was shot in the head at a Tucson Safeway. She was appearing at an event to interact with constituents. Current news reports are indicating that she is in surgery; however, MSNBC is reporting that Arizona District Judge John Roll was shot and killed. At least 10 others were also shot and wounded.

Please use this thread to share updates, as well as your thoughts on what appears to be politically motivated violence, or threats of it, over the past two years especially.

Update: This piece from the AP particularly notes such violence:

The shooting comes amid a highly charged political environment that has seen several dangerous threats against lawmakers but nothing that reached the point of actual violence.

A San Francisco man upset with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s support of health care reform pleaded guilty to threatening the Democratic congresswoman and her family, calling her directly on March 25 and threatening to destroy her Northern California home if she voted for health care reform.

In July, a California man known for his anger over left-leaning politics engaged in a shootout with highway patrol officers after planning an attack on the ACLU and another nonprofit group. The man said he wanted to “start a revolution” by killing people at the ACLU and the Tides Foundation.

Giffords herself has drawn the ire of the right, especially for her support of the health care bill from politicians like Sarah Palin.

Her Tucson office was vandalized a few hours after the House vote to approve the health care law in March, with someone either kicking or shooting out a glass door and window.

Update 2: Various news sources are reporting that a 22-year-old white male, Jared Loughner, was taken into custody. I’m seeing some reports that he was of a fringe mindset on a number of issues, many not even relating to politics.

Update 3: I’m headed offline, but there are two vigils tonight- one in Tucson at 8, and another here in DC near the Capitol, for those wishing to attend. I believe MoveOn is also planning some events in this capacity.

Entry filed under: Community/Meta.

Thanks for the push, Maggie. We like this Michigan poll too Daily, Jim: That’s how often we’ll tell you why app removal is understandable

145 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Mandi  |  January 8, 2011 at 12:47 pm


    • 2. JonT  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:27 pm


      And wondering if the shooter will turn out to be a teabagger.

      • 3. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:29 pm

        Well, it did happen in AZ – likely Jon.

        • 4. fiona64  |  January 9, 2011 at 1:58 pm

          Throw in the fact that Gabrielle Giffords was “in Sarah Palin’s sights” on the SarahPAC webpage and I think it’s pretty much a done deal. When you draw gun-sights/crosshairs on a person’s office, and your constituency is a bunch of undereducated buffoons, what can you expect?

    • 5. Ann S.  |  January 8, 2011 at 5:07 pm


  • 6. John  |  January 8, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    My prayers are with her and her loved ones. It’s a sad day for the country.

  • 7. Randy  |  January 8, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    One is forced to wonder if this was a random attack, or if she was the primary target…

    • 8. BK  |  January 9, 2011 at 3:22 am

      Hopefully we’ll find out.

  • 9. Kathleen  |  January 8, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    My thoughts are with the family and friends of the people caught up in this violence.

    If this is, indeed, politically motivated, the implications for our country are disturbing beyond measure.

    • 10. Bob  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:10 pm

      prayers from Canada, with love to all those immediate family members , of the victims, and also to extended family here on p8tt,,,,,,,

      again just saying your presidents comments indicate he believes he’s the head of a free society,,,,, freedom fighters everywhere,,, take action,, make him correct his statement,,,,

      together we’re working on making it a free society,,,, there’s blood running in the streets today,,,,,

      Kathleen, my heart goes out to you,,, and the implications for your country,,,, together lets focus on freedom,

  • 11. Ronnie  |  January 8, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    I’ll repost this:
    While we still don’t know much about the motives of the 21-year-old gunman involved in today’s tragic shooting, Gabrielle Giffords’ name was included on a target list put together by Sarah Palin. This list focused on ousting from office 20 members of Congress in Republican districts who voted for President Obama’s health care reform bill calling for them to be replaced “with good conservatives.” As you can see, sniper scope graphics blanket the “Take Back the 20″ map.

    (me)……hmmmmmm …… : I ……Ronnie

    • 12. Ronnie  |  January 8, 2011 at 12:52 pm

      By the way….poor Sarah Palin just took down the website for “Take Back the 20″…..GUILTY MUCH?!!!!!!…… : I ….Ronnie

      • 13. Elizabeth Oakes  |  January 8, 2011 at 6:26 pm

        And I’m reposting from the other thread: “How’s that scope-y, murder-y thing working out for ya, Palin?

  • 14. Mike  |  January 8, 2011 at 12:51 pm


  • 15. Sagesse  |  January 8, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Vindicating once again the free speech rights of Sarah Palin and Sharron Angle, among others. Words have consequences.

    Sorry. I’m beyond angry. There was a collective shrug when some nutjob shot George Tiller, and when the guard was killed at the Holocaust Museum. Maybe if it’s an important person, something will change.

    • 16. Tomato  |  January 8, 2011 at 4:20 pm

      And a collective shrug when the right-wing nutjob (inspired by Glenn Beck and O’Reilly) went into a Unitarian church’s children’s service to kill religious liberals. He “only” succeeded in killing 2 people, and it was “only” a Unitarian church.

      Jesus was a liberal, in all senses of the word….

  • 17. Kathleen  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    In some good news, the Connecticut State Supreme Court has said that two men can be listed as the parents on their child’s birth certificate. Start the countdown for the exploding heads.

    • 18. Sagesse  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:14 pm

      Thanks, needed that. It is in society’s interest to support and protect families, all kinds of families, which in turn support and protect children.

  • 19. John  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    I wish I could say I was surprised.

    But when the right wing says that people who voted for the health care bill “voted to kill babies” (a lie – abortion is not paid for by the health care bill) and “voted for death panels” (also a lie); that people who voted for DADT have “destroyed” the nation; that immigration represents a “war” to the nation that must be defended against; that Obama is not legally our ruler (BTW I had the same complaint against those who used the same sort of rhetoric against Bush).

    Rhetoric can kill. Lies can kill.

    We don’t know if the person who shot these people was motivated by the right wing agenda or not yet, so I won’t connect it to this terrorism quite yet. But I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s connected.

    • 20. Marlene  |  January 8, 2011 at 8:56 pm

      Those who’re regular visitors to the PolitiFact website know that the claim by Palin/Limbaugh/Beck, ad nauseum that the Obama health care refum plan would be a “government takeover” was named their Lie of the Year for 2010!

  • 21. Bob  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    and terrorism would be a correct definition of this action,,,,,

    which proves you can’t stop it at the border, or by killing some civilians in a foriegn country,,,,,,

    if you really want to root out evil,, just look at where it lies within yourself…….

  • 22. Ronnie  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Jared Laughner, Gabrielle Giffords Shooter (INFO)

    Jared Laughner, the man who shot Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), was described by eyewitnesses as a young white man who looked like a “fringe character.”

    (me) My thoughts are with Rep. Gifford’s family…..It has been released on CNN that one of the victims has passed away….a 9yo girl…..Deepest condolences to the family of this innocent child who got caught in the middle of this unacceptable event…… : ( …..Ronnie

  • 23. Rhie  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Holy Crap. Why can’t Palin and the idiot who called on Second Amendment remedies be arrested? Inciting violence, accomplices in some sense?


    • 24. JonT  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:32 pm

      …and the idiot who called on Second Amendment remedies

      If I recall correctly, that would be Sharon Angle.

  • 25. Rose  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    …what does this have to do with gay rights?

    • 26. Ronnie  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:27 pm

      Rep. Gifford is a member of the Congressional LGBT Equality Caucus…..that is what it has to do with Gay rights…..she represents us…. : I ….Ronnie:

      • 27. Tomato  |  January 8, 2011 at 4:22 pm

        She’s quite important in the gay rights arena.

      • 28. Ray in MA  |  January 9, 2011 at 6:47 am

        The caucus currently has 91 members…

        Only 1 is a Republican:

        Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL)

    • 29. Kathleen  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:28 pm

      Among other things, she’s a member of the Congressional LGBT Equality Caucus:

      • 30. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:52 pm

        Kathleen she has been so open to the LGBT community in Tucson – always available to hear our concerns. Can’t believe this happened – shock.

        • 31. Kathleen  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:56 pm

          I’m so sorry for the impact on your community, LLB. I’m stunned.

          • 32. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:04 pm

            Yeah, me too. I have so many people calling me to make sure I am okay – Tucson is a pretty big community – I am fine.

            I cried when they were reporting Gabbie was dead, and cried even harder when they said she was still alive. My prayers are to all of those victims and their families.

    • 33. Zel  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:43 pm

      Almost nothing.

      It is more generally about the loss of a key democrat in a district that almost certainly will go to a Republican hostile to women and the gay community next election.

      • 34. Tomato  |  January 8, 2011 at 4:24 pm

        oops, Zel, read the other replies to Rose’s question…

        • 35. Zel  |  January 13, 2011 at 2:28 pm

          oops, Tomato, read her policies. She’s a great representative and I voted for her, but she has done relatively little work on gay rights. The vast majority of her work focuses on energy, the border, veterans, and seniors. Just because she has advocated for gay rights doesn’t mean that it is her defining issue or that this shooting had anything to do with gay rights. She is a great representative and it warms my heart to see so many people caring about her, but I maintain that this shooting had ALMOST nothing to do with gay rights. For better or worse, this site has broadened its focus to include news stories not directly related to California’s Prop 8 Trial. I appreciate your acknowledgment of the work she has done for gay rights. She has done a lot of work for everyone in the community. Thanks for caring.

  • 36. Mackenzie  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Supposedly a federal judge was shot and killed as well. It is sad that people like this gunman exist.

    • 37. BK  |  January 9, 2011 at 3:27 am

      Is there anything in the judge’s history that’s related to LGBT issues?

      • 38. Joel  |  January 9, 2011 at 10:43 am

        I understand the context of your question, but it does seem a little callous. If the Judge had never ruled on any LGBT issues, or even if he had ruled against them, would that make this any more acceptable?

        • 39. Richard A. Jernigan  |  January 9, 2011 at 1:31 pm

          I think BK was asking because all of us are trying to make sense out of something that is so senseless. I think BK is trying to get some idea as to whether Judge Roll could have been one of the gunman’s targets yesterday. After all, there are so many who are on the equality side who have been made targets by Sarah Palin, John McCain, Tony Perkins, Maggie Gallagher and others of their ilk. wonder how they feel with all this blood on their hands now?

          • 40. Kathleen  |  January 9, 2011 at 1:33 pm

            The reports I’ve read are that he just happened to stop by the event when he was in the neighborhood. Given that, it seems unlikely he was the planned target.

          • 41. Richard A. Jernigan  |  January 9, 2011 at 1:44 pm

            Yes. From what I have read, he knew Rep. Giffords, and respected her as a public servant. So tragic that this could happen. And also not surprised that Sarah Palin is trying to hide behind lame excuses. She knew what consequences her ads could have, and she knew that most of those who support her are of the “cold, dead hands” variety when it comes to guns. That leaves her NO excuses.

          • 42. BK  |  January 12, 2011 at 11:27 am

            Yes, thanks Richard for clarifying my question. :)

  • 43. John  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    From the article:

    Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is out of surgery and one of her surgeons said “I’m very optimistic about her recovery.”

    “She was shot one time in the head through and through,” Dr. Peter Rhee said at an afternoon news conference at University Medical Center in Tucson.

    He said the congresswoman was following commands, a good sign, he said.

    • 44. Carpool Cookie  |  January 8, 2011 at 5:20 pm

      Wow. Kind of speechless that she might be okay after that!

      )Of course, nothing’s a given.)

  • 45. Zel  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    Gabby Giffords is my representative. I live in her district just a few miles from the grocery store where she was shot. I am following the local news which is actually on the scene.

    Giffords is not dead.

    University Medical Center (UMC) just released news. She was shot in the head. The bullet went through and through. She could follow commands when she was brought into the hospital. She has already undergone surgery and is under anaesthesia, so there will not be much news on her condition until the anaesthesia wears off.

    It is painfully clear that the shooting was politically motivated. She was attending her first “congress on your corner” event since being sworn in. This is a regular political event where she talks to her constituents one-on-one. She is a democrat who represents a very conservative district and only won by 1 or 2 percentage points over a Tea-party nutcase who advocates a 23% sales tax.

    Only one individual has been reported dead- a 9 year old girl. There are 5 people who are critically wounded and in surgery and 5 people who were injured.

    • 46. Kathleen  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:38 pm

      I’m also seeing reports that the intended target may have been U.S. District Court Judge John Roll, Chief Judge for the District of Arizona

      • 47. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:40 pm

        KOLD has live stream of the event. It is a very sad day indeed.

        They cannot confirm that Judge Roll is one of the victims yet.

        You can watch the live stream from the live stream link at the top of the page here:

        • 48. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:47 pm

          No confirmation yet that this is the shooters youtube channel – but looks like it could be:

          • 49. Ronnie  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:50 pm

            He is INSANE!!!!!… : – & ……Ronnie

          • 50. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:51 pm

            His video – he is disturbed:

          • 51. bJason  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:00 pm

            @ LLB – that is some spooky stuff, seriously!

          • 52. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:22 pm

            They are confirming that is his youtube channel

          • 53. Sagesse  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:46 pm

            @Ronnie – Yes, he’s insane… most of these guys are. The violent rhetoric and images… congressmen in the crosshairs… sets them off.

  • 54. Cat  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    My thoughts are with all the people hurt by this horrific act. I am saddened to see such violence staining the political process. It’s hard to know how or if this could have been prevented, but populist absolutist rhetoric as used by tea party figures as well as other people can spark these acts in individuals who didn’t get the help they need. When truth and compassion is lost, people get hurt.

  • 55. Up&Adam  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    Is our President misinformed? He just said 5 people were killed. Regardless, it’s still a tragedy.

    • 56. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:56 pm

      Five are dead and 13 are injured.

  • 57. NetAmigo  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    The Arizona Central is reporting 6 were killed and 18 injured.

  • 58. bJason  |  January 8, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    Here are those “2nd amendment remedies” of which many have recently spoken. This is truly frightening and utterly deplorable.

    I’m with other posters above – incitement to violence, accessory to crimes/murder, terrorism…

    Our politicians, wealthicrats and, to some degree, the media have put this pot on to boil and are now seeing the fruits of their labors. When polarization and division as parts of a scheme to power go unchecked, episodes like this may well be harbingers of worse to come. When reason is replaced with fear, reactionism isn’t far behind. We are seeing that now.

    • 59. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:00 pm

      I hope Gov. Brewer is thinking twice about trying to extend the open carry concealed weapons law to our university campuses here in AZ. Ugh, she is speaking now too .

      • 60. Kathleen  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:03 pm

        She’s one of those people I have a hard time watching or listening to. So much meanness and stupidity all rolled up into one shriveled up little person.

  • 61. Justin  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    SIncere condolences to all the victims and their loved ones, and I hope Rep. Giffords recovers quickly and completely. I also hope that Palin the other demagogues on the right get all the shame they deserve for their thoughtless rabble-rousing. Idiots.

  • 62. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    Gabbie reading her part of the First Ammendment:

  • 63. Ronnie  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    CNN just reported that Rep. Gifford is in critical condition & is responding…..Federal Judge Roll & a 9yo girl are amongst those who have died……

    This is chaos….Deepest condolences…I can’t express how much my thoughts are with all the victims of this event….this is unacceptable…. : ( ….Ronnie

    • 64. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:16 pm

      Earlier reports that the child was Gabbie’s daughter – I think they just confirmed it wasn’t her daughter. But so hard to follow.

    • 65. Ronnie  |  January 8, 2011 at 5:02 pm

      I have to apologize…I misspelled her name so many times…Rep. Giffords….I hope you a safe & swift recovery….<3….Ronnie

  • 66. Sagesse  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    Sorry if this has been posted… I’m behind in my reading… but Andrew Sullivan’s Daily Dish is liveblogging the situation.

    An Assassination: Live-Blogging

  • 67. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    It’s being reported that four elderly men were the ones who took down the shooter!

  • 68. bJason  |  January 8, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    Second Amendment Remedies (two from a Google Search)

    Sharon Angle:

    Sharron Angle, the Tea Party candidate turned Republican primary winner in Nevada, has taken heat for a number of extreme affiliations and policy positions. One of the more outlandish was a statement she made during a radio interview last January in which she floated the idea that the public would bring down an out-of-control Congress with “Second Amendment remedies.”

    In an interview she gave with conservative talk show host Bill Manders earlier in the campaign, Angle conspicuously floated, once again, “Second Amendment remedies” to deal not just with the supposedly ever-growing “tyrannical” U.S. government, but to replace her now general election opponent: Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.).

    Dancing with the Stars!!!???

    Rumblings within the rogue Tea Party voting bloc that has kept Bristol Palin alive on “Dancing with the Stars” suggest that anything short of a Palin victory could trigger “Second Amendment remedies.”
    Asked what that means, an anonymous Tea Party operative explained that “Second Amendment remedies” is a popular expression coined by Nevada Tea Party superstar Sharron Angle to advocate armed insurrection against governments or oppressive, left-leaning reality show regimes.


  • 69. Richard A. Jernigan  |  January 8, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    I have been reading about this tragedy. And I am posting this request here because I can’t get an answer on the phone. LLB, if you are safe, if you were not at this event in Tucson and did not get hurt, please post here and let me know.

    • 70. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 3:05 pm

      Thanks Richard – I am safe – I stopped answering the phone. I will call you in a little while!

    • 71. Richard A. Jernigan  |  January 8, 2011 at 3:06 pm

      Belay that request. I scrolled up and saw your earlier post, LLB. But I will not lie about being concerned when I could not get hold of you earlier. So glad to know that you are safe. Such a shame that someone would do something like this and kill at least five people, and injure at least 10 others.

  • 72. paula  |  January 8, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    in addition to taking down the target web site, palin has reportedly also scrubbed here “don’t retreat, instead RELOAD” post from her twitter and facebook feeds.

    let’s hope she doesn’t get away with pretending she never said that!

    • 73. Tomato  |  January 8, 2011 at 4:32 pm

      She will get away with it, and come out looking better than ever. Just watch…

      • 74. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 4:39 pm

        Tomato – I hope you are wrong – but my gut says you are right.

        • 75. Elizabeth Oakes  |  January 8, 2011 at 6:35 pm

          I’m sure all those items have been screen-captured, and they need to be exploded over the media. We fear the Rupert Murdoch empire will be instructed to say the guy was schizoid, and it’s the fault of liberals who are too soft on crime letting him have a gun and treatment instead of jail, or something.

          But people who threaten and encourage assassination–tacitly or implicitly, with images, words, or innuendo–deserve nothing better themselves. Let’s not let them get away with it. Let’s keep shouting about their responsibility here, and let’s get them off the air.

          • 76. Tomato  |  January 8, 2011 at 7:05 pm

            The disgusting irony here is that Giffords herself warned Palin that the “crosshairs” assassination hit-list map of the 20 democrats was dangerous and irresponsible to have publicized.

            That was before she got shot, of course.

      • 77. Joel  |  January 9, 2011 at 10:58 am

        Every single story on national network and cable news highlighted Palin’s website, and also her patently insincere condolences. Said condolences were tweeted!

        I don’t think this going away.

    • 78. Elizabeth Oakes  |  January 8, 2011 at 6:39 pm

      Maybe Sarah’s afraid we commie liberals will start taking her “don’t retreat, reload” advice, huh? Coward.

  • 79. Sagesse  |  January 8, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    Just watched the law enforcement press conference on CNN. The sheriff was very forthright in saying that unstable people are very susceptible to the kind of ‘political vitriol’ that is commonplace in the US. He also called AZ the ‘mecca’ for bigotry. Will try to locate video. The officials all knew Giffords and Judge Roll personally.

    • 80. Sagesse  |  January 8, 2011 at 6:04 pm

      Quoted in the NYT.

      “Pima County Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik offered an emotional, angry assessment of the state of America in the wake of the shootings in Arizona, saying that two of his close friends — Ms. Giffords and Judge John Roll – were among the victims.

      Mr. Dupnik called the shooting a “very sad day for Tucson” and a “horrendous, horrendous, senseless, unbelievable crime.” And then he blamed the crime on the rhetoric — presumably political rhetoric — in the country.

      “When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government,” he said. “The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on this country is getting to be outrageous and unfortunately Arizona has become sort of the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.”

      Mr. Dupnik said it is time for the country to “do a little soul searching.”

      He added: “The vitriolic rhetoric that we hear day in and day out from people in the radio business and some people in the TV business … This has not become the nice United States that most of us grew up in.”

      Later, he said: “It’s not unusual for all public officials to get threats constantly, myself included. That’s the sad thing about what’s going on in America: pretty soon we’re not going to be able to find reasonable decent people willing to subject themselves to serve in public office.”

      • 81. Kathleen  |  January 8, 2011 at 6:08 pm

        I watched the press conference and was also struck by how frank he was about bigotry in Arizona and the impact of inflammatory speech.

        • 82. Carpool Cookie  |  January 8, 2011 at 6:15 pm

          It’s interesting that liberals (or as I choose to call them, Enlightened People) don’t go off on shooting sprees too often, do they?

          And they say we’re a threat to society…

          • 83. Kate  |  January 8, 2011 at 6:21 pm

            We are — to their murderous, hate-filled dream of “society.”

          • 84. Elizabeth Oakes  |  January 8, 2011 at 6:37 pm

            Jackboots and guns go together, like Adolph and Eva.

          • 85. Paul in Minneapolis  |  January 8, 2011 at 8:19 pm

            I’ve already seen one comment on the Minneapolis Star Tribune that blames liberals for setting up a climate of hostility. The commenter cited “attacks” against Sarah Palin, (former Minnesota Republican gubernatorial candidate) Tom Emmer, Ann Coulter and Carl Rove, and liberals’ supposed failure to denounce violence at the 2008 Republican National Convention in St. Paul, as evidence. As if there’s no difference between disagreement and dissent (which are constitutionally protected) and shooting someone.

            This shooting is atrocious and an affront to all Americans across the political spectrum.

          • 86. Evelyn J. Brooks  |  January 9, 2011 at 7:11 am

            Liberals, Enlightened People? Hardly. But compared to the conservatives I guess so.

            According to them, we murder countless innocent babies every year so it’s really all about which side of the fence you’re standing on.

          • 87. Rhie  |  January 11, 2011 at 10:56 am

            I know, right?

            My friends I were joking the other day that a left wing nutjob would be the one on the saying Peace MAN! while doing a public sit in against war.

  • 88. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords: The victims

    Giffords aide killed has been identified as Gabe Zimmerman, her community outreach director; the 30-year-old was engaged to be married.

    U.S. District Judge John Roll, the chief judge for the District of Arizona, was killed while apparently attending a public appearance by Giffords outside a Safeway store north of Tucson, U.S. Marshall David Gonzales confirmed to the Associated Press.

    Also killed was 9-year-old Christina Taylor Green of Tucson. A neighbor was going to the Giffords event and invited Christina along because she thought she would enjoy it, said her uncle, Greg Segalini.

    Christina had just been elected to the student council at her school. The event, held outside a Safeway supermarket north of Tucson, was an opportunity for constituents to meet Giffords and talk about any concerns they had related to the federal government.

    “The next thing you know this happened. How do you prepare for something like this. My little niece got killed-took one on the chest and she is dead,” Segalini said outside the girl’s house.

    Christina was involved in many activities, from ballet to baseball, Segalini said.

    “She was real special and real sweet,” Segalini said.

    Gifford’s deputy director Ron Barber also was injured in the shooting but was OK, said C.J. Karamargin, Giffords’ communications director. He was not at the event.

    Another staffer, Pam Simon, was also hit, Karamargin said, but she will also be alright.

    Roll started his legal career as a bailiff in the Pima County Superior Court. He served an assistant city attorney in Tucson and worked as a criminal prosecutor in Pima County before joining the U.S. Attorney’s office in 1980, where he specialized in prosecuting drug cases.

    He was appointed to the Arizona Appeals Court in 1987 and served until he was named to the federal bench by President George H. W. Bush in 1991.

    He began serving as presiding judge in 2006.

    A native of Pennsylvania, he graduated from the University of Arizona in 1969 and received his law degree from the University of Virginia in 1972.

    Read more:

    • 89. Ann S.  |  January 8, 2011 at 6:25 pm

      So very tragic — now I’m gonna weep all over my keyboard if I”m not careful.

      • 90. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 8, 2011 at 6:27 pm

        I’m with you Ann. Tragic.

        • 91. Ann S.  |  January 8, 2011 at 7:49 pm

          I just had to go give my family hugs after that. They could both be taken away from me when I least expect it.

          We are all diminished when someone tries to assassinate any of our elected officials or judges.

  • 92. Chris in Lathrop  |  January 8, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    This is not what the second Amendment is about. This is not what the military’s oath to defend the nation against all enemies, foreign or domestic is about. And I am so sick to death of Hollywood and the NRA making out guns and violence to be simply a part of modern society and hardly taking the time to focus on weapons safety and responsibility!!! I hate Charlton Heston with a passion for his “cold, dead hands” speech and the irresponsibility of the NRA in sanitizing the image of the gun culture.

    These sickos are responsible for these deaths today, albeit indirectly. This is no different than big tobacco trying to get kids addicted, and people are DYING!

  • 93. Ronnie  |  January 8, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    OMGoing to lose it……

    She Has A Name: Christina Taylor Greene, 9 Yr. Old Killed In Tucson Massacre, Born on 9/11/01 (PHOTOS)

    The identity of the 9-year-old tragically killed in this morning’s deadly rampage is Christina Taylor Greene.
    Family says she was vibrant, excited about life, and she was the “best daughter in the world.”

    Born on September 11, 2001, Greene was excited about the political process, was on the student government, and went to the Giffords event today to learn more about the political process, family members say.
    Greene attended Mesa Verde Elementary School. She was the only girl on the CDO baseball team – she loved the sport, as well as horseback riding and swimming.

    (me) There are not enough words….I can’t imagine what her family is going through tonight… many young lives have to be lost to violence & vitriol before this country wakes up…..I am really doubting that this is a country I want to raise my future children in…if our country continues down this path….I really am finding it hard to find the exact words to express my feelings about this…..

    : ( ……Ronnie

  • 94. Sagesse  |  January 8, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    Did we miss this?

    Bills to legalize gay marriage introduced in R.I. House, Senate

    • 95. Kathleen  |  January 8, 2011 at 9:01 pm

      Not sure if everyone saw it, but I posted back a bit. It never hurts to post these again. A lot of people miss it the first time.

      • 96. Sagesse  |  January 8, 2011 at 9:36 pm

        My bad memory. I remember you posted this legislation was coming, and early in the session, but not that the actual bills had been tabled. Must’ve been sleeping in class again.

      • 97. Kathleen  |  January 8, 2011 at 9:59 pm

        Not a problem. I mean it when I say a lot of people don’t see things the first time. There are a lot of things that get posted here multiple times and every time it happens, there is someone who sees it for the first time only after it’s been re-posted.

  • 98. Michelle Evans  |  January 8, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    Keith Olberman did a fantastic show this evening, running for two hours on the Giffords shooting. It included the live press conference from Tucson, then back to the studio, with lots of commentary and interviews. The end of the show had a 10-minute commentary by Olberman that was truly a great piece of journalistic commentary. He’s done many great commentaries, but this was definitely in his top ten.

  • 100. Ray in MA  |  January 9, 2011 at 6:26 am

    At a press conference Saturday, Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik criticized people who are making a living off “inflaming the American public.”

    That would be a BIG list!

  • 101. Ronnie  |  January 9, 2011 at 7:51 am

    Here is video of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords waring Sarah Palin that her (the following are my words) immature, harmful, & pathetic political “crosshairs ” ploy to garner votes….which will only turn into a liability & deleterious PR….will have consequences……hmmmmm…..

    Again, my condolences to the families who lost a loved one yesterday & I hope for a safe & swift recovery for Rep. Giffords & the other survivors of this inhuman & mean spirited attack…… : ( …..Ronnie:

    • 102. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  January 10, 2011 at 7:33 am

      tx for finding this….catching up news…this is not news I like to hear : ( NOT going to share w/my hubby as he keeps mentioning how conservatives are going to start killing…and he feels HATE from college classmates AND teachers in our mostly republican state primarily targeted at his being Hispanic.

      • 103. Ronnie  |  January 10, 2011 at 8:32 am

        You’re welcome, Gregory….Here is another video from “The View” last January…the women criticize Sarah Palin for her “crosshairs” ill-conceived political ploy… <3…Ronnie:

        "This is a shift. I'm unhappy with it. I would never put a target on a person's name, or where the live or where they're from. It's insane" ~ Elizabeth Hasselbeck

        • 104. Ronnie  |  January 10, 2011 at 8:39 am

          uggg….fixed quote….”This is a shift. I’m unhappy with it. I would never put a target on a person’s name, or where they live, or where they’re from. It’s insane” ~ Elizabeth Hasselbeck

          Ok…time for coffee…..<3…Ronnie

          • 105. Richard A. Jernigan  |  January 10, 2011 at 8:51 am

            I have a fresh pot of Sumatra from Rostov’s Coffee and Tea Emporium in Richmond, Ronnie. How do you take your coffee? And would you like some challah with it?

          • 106. Ronnie  |  January 10, 2011 at 9:33 am

            I like my coffee light & sweet…..I’m having a small italian sausage omelet & home fries for breakfast…but thank you….<3….Ronnie

        • 107. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  January 10, 2011 at 8:40 am

          double thanks : )

  • 108. Bob  |  January 9, 2011 at 9:07 am

    just emptying some of the thoughts in my head,,,,,,

    Micael Moore has a great post toady, covering the viloence,,, he ends by saying if it had been a muslim who had set up a webpage with gun targets on Giffords,,,, where do you think that person would be today???? (me I bet he would be getting a serious investigation, at very least) They’d make an example of him,, long drawn out jail time, threat to America and all,,,, What puts Palin above that standard of scrutiny….. Has the religious right won,, is Amerca afraid to make an example of Palin……and set a standard of what is acceptable…..

    How fragile is the U.S. could we be having the fight now,,,,or deny it’s existance and smooth this over, by focusing on the psychiatric state of the shooter,,,

    President Obama in a speach says,, it’s tragedies like this that unite the American people,, in crisis they come together,,,,,, me ,,, I think you got to change that part of the American way,,,, it could be the celebrations of basic human rights and freedoms, like health care, and equal marriage that unite the American people…..

    Please use this opportunity to show the brokeness of the country, and the extremes you face,,,, stay on that page expose those issues,,, religious right against human rights, that’s a reason to pause….. now is a time to ACT UP,,,,, a response from the other side would be hellpful, some indication,, that we don’t just overlook what happened by glossing it over, and using it as a rallying point to unite the country,,,,, that would be playing right into the hands of the right wing,,,, suck it up move on…. and continue to live in fear, that it will happen again…..

    You’re right Palin, Angles, and Beck, etc. are right now hiding behind this victory,, they want you to move on,,, they have accomplished their goal, Republican speakers don’t fear getting shot,,, they can continue to speak freely, but where willl we find people to stand up for human rights, knowing they are a target,,,,,,, if there is not some action on this,,, if you just unite and move on,,, they win……

    I’m way too involved in American fight for freedom,,, my Canadian friends reacted to the news by brushing it off… ” yeah so what do you expect, those Americans are crazy” “it won’t change a thing” ‘that”s America for ya, if you stand up and speak out expect a bullet to the head” and on and on…….

  • 109. Ray in MA  |  January 9, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Clever kid… 15 YO!

  • 110. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 9, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Just like in your own communities, there is usually dissension between parties. Here in Southern AZ there is a very big wedge between party lines. I don’t know how or when it happened. But if you ever read the comment boards on any of our local newspapers in Tucson, you will see the right (not just far right) grind their extreme dislike (don’t want to call it hate – even though it is) for Reps Grijalva, Giffords & others, and then the left (not just the far left) spew their dissension towards the Gov. Brewer, Senators McCain and Kyl & others. The shooter could have just wanted to shoot anyone and didn’t care about party lines, could have been listening to the far right or far left media – or could have partaken in our ‘local’ rants of our reps.

    I am just saying that it’s really hard to point fingers to where he got his ideology and hate. He is obviously unstable (and that’s being kind.)

    What I do know is that the political dialog in Tucson can change. Calling our reps names (mcsame, hussein, death-panel brewer, etc.) certainly could be curved.

    Of course, I don’t know any of the answers to the problems, but I am willing to acknowledge these problems exist. I’d like to think I could better myself when on discussion boards, as well as the media could be a little better at balancing their views and politicians can quit thinking about their political careers and start working for all of their constituents.

    Just saying/ranting cause I think I really need to.

    • 111. the lone ranger  |  January 9, 2011 at 10:56 am

      I live in Tucson as well and I’m shocked and appalled by yesterday events. My thoughts go out for the victims and their families.

      And even though I’m pretty undeniably progressive (I think McCain, Brewer, and most of the AZ State legislature are driving the state and country into the toilet), I’ll play Devil’s Advocate here for a second: how many times during the initial Senate DADT-repeal fiasco did we here use “McSame” or “McLame”, and wish him an “early retirement” (resignation, heart attack, whatever it took, right)?

      I’m one to think that a bit of clever wordplay with politicians’ names, parties, and so on is relatively harmless and actually attests to a lingering bit of cerebral consideration in the debate. If politics were less like Jerry Springer (minus the screamed profanities and chair throwing) and more like Thanksgiving dinner at the in-laws (with all emotion simmering below a happy façade), I’m not sure anyone would even have enough interest to vote. However, it’s the incitement to violence and the equating of political change with imagery of “armed resistance” (perpetrated primarily by the right… a modern US left example doesn’t come to mind) is really what has to stop.

      Of course we see the same problem specifically here with the same-sex marriage debate. When one side stirs up their base with distortions and misinformation (and I’m taking about the right here, if that wasn’t clear), fringe actors are liable to resort to violence. Unfortunately, I don’t see an easy solution to this.

      In any case, I’m heartened to see that Gabby Giffords seems to be recovering, and I hope she’ll have the fortitude to stay in politics.

  • 112. Ronnie  |  January 9, 2011 at 11:16 am

    “The feds are reportedly probing whether shooting suspect Jared Lee Loughner has ties to an anti-Semitic, anti-government hate group that has ads for tea party organizations on its website.”

    (me) the so called “conservapedia” is calling him a ‘liberal”……now honestly?..if they really where an encyclopedia of conservative info….they would already know that Home Land Security & the Feds are looking into his connection with a conservative group called “American Renaissance” in which the Feds are saying this group’s website contains what may be “paid advertisements for tea party versions of the “don’t tread on me” flag”….but of course the far right Conservatives want to distance themselves from a mass murderer, who, may or may not be directly linked to them, but appears to be more like them they are willing to admit ….

    In the article from Politico……”Jared Taylor, editor of American Renaissance, made clear in an interview with Fox News that the group considers itself a think tank of sorts with a conservative circular that’s available by subscription.”……hmmmmmmm …

    Sarah Palin & her staff have the audacity to imply…nay state (in so many words),…….
    ……..”That is not what we meant by using crosshairs on our map (which uses the word “target”)”…..regardless of what Sarah Palin meant by using crosshairs & the word “target”, I do try to give her the benefit of the doubt, but is she really this obtuse?….The large number of her constituents are gun toting…& maybe, just maybe, some right wing psycho will interpret her ill-conceived political advertisement/publicity stunt differently then what ever is going on in her head……

    Come on Sarah…just own your words…you owe it, not only to Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Judge John Roll, the others who died & were injured…but to the family of an innocent 9yo girl who was a young politician in the making….you may not have meant for something like this to happen…..but at least acknowledge that there is a possibility that you may have played a small part in this rather then hiding behind an excuse…… : I …..Ronnie

    • 113. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 9, 2011 at 11:46 am

      Yeah the liberal thing is kind of out there. That’s the chatter here too.

  • 114. steelerose  |  January 9, 2011 at 11:21 am

    A discussion on Gay marriage on the Economist website that may be worth reading.

    • 115. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  January 10, 2011 at 8:02 am

      Thank you…I did indeed find the article worth reading…and sharing! : )

  • 116. Kathleen  |  January 9, 2011 at 11:22 am

    An article about Christina Green, the 9 year old girl who lost her life yesterday:

    As an aside, I’m glad to see Obama is sending FBI Director Robert Mueller to Arizona head the investigation.

  • 117. Franck  |  January 9, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    A few things I learned today:

    A 20-year-old gay intern rushed to Rep. Giffords’s side and kept her alive long enough for help to reach her.

    Despite being wounded, a woman managed to delay the shooter enough for others to subdue him.

    These news don’t make the events less tragic, but we should remember the acts of heroism that almost always happen during times like this.

    – Franck P. Rabeson
    Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1297 days, as of today.

    • 118. Carpool Cookie  |  January 9, 2011 at 2:10 pm

      Yes, intern Hernandez checked pulses and applied pressure to Giffords’ wounds, instructing others present how to do likewise.

      (I keep meaning to take an emergency medic class on stuff like this…I think some local police departments and the Red Cross offer them free…)

      • 119. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  January 10, 2011 at 9:19 am

        YEP, he is GAY and HISPANIC Woot to intern Hernandez!

  • 120. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 9, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Wow, just can’t believe the world I live in…

    I will be one of those helping block this group’s efforts at these funerals!

    Westboro Baptist Church To Picket Funerals Of Arizona Shooting Victims

    Westboro Baptist Church, the Topeka church known for its inflammatory anti-gay protests, plans to picket the funerals of the six people gunned down in Arizona on Saturday.

    In a flier posted on its web site, the controversial church writes, “THANK GOD FOR THE SHOOTER — 6 DEAD!” The message continues:

    God appointed this rod for your sins! God sent the shooter! This hateful nation unleashed violent veterans on the servants of God at WBC–hoping to silence our kind warning to obey God and flee the wrath to come.

    The flier claims that the shooting of both a House member and a federal judge — the latter of whom was killed — is god’s punishment for judicial and Congressional action against the WBC. “God sent the shooter to shoot you! And He’s sitting in Heaven laughing at you!” the announcement reads.

    In graphic language, it continues:

    Your federal judge is dead and your (fag-promoting, baby-killing, proud-sinner) Congresswoman fights for her life. God is avenging Himself on this rebellious house! WBC prays for your destruction–more shooters, more dead carcasses piling up, young, old, leader and commoner–all. Your doom is upon you!

    • 121. fiona64  |  January 9, 2011 at 2:04 pm

      “And they will know we are Christians by our love, by our love. They will know we are Christians by our love.”

      • 122. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  January 10, 2011 at 7:34 am

        !! : (

      • 123. Rhie  |  January 11, 2011 at 8:51 pm

        there’s an idea…

        Why don’t some real Christians go there and sing hymns loud enough to cover the sound the protests?

      • 124. BK  |  January 12, 2011 at 11:33 am

        I used to like that song; now I cry at it. So many hypocritical Christrians today. :(

    • 125. Ronnie  |  January 10, 2011 at 10:46 am

      Can’t say I’m surprised that the WBC is doing this…..but shame on them…for shame…not even sure that “shame” is a strong enough word…but shame… : / …..Ronnie

  • 126. fiona64  |  January 9, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Apropos of nothing, our recently banned troll, Michael Ejercito, has taken his fake erudition to Laura Compton’s pro-equality

    I won’t be at all surprised if he’s the next one we find out killed somebody, to tell the truth.

    • 127. Richard A. Jernigan  |  January 9, 2011 at 2:08 pm

      Ejercito was banned? I have missed something here. There were posts from him that came in yesterday. I am just glad that we won’t have to deal with him anymore.

      • 128. Kathleen  |  January 9, 2011 at 2:09 pm

        That’s the first I’ve heard of it.

      • 129. fiona64  |  January 9, 2011 at 6:45 pm

        Were there posts yesterday? I had understood him to have been banned.

        Maybe he’s home from boarding school for the holidays. Who knows

    • 130. Ronnie  |  January 9, 2011 at 3:28 pm

      (sighs)….. : / ….Ronnie

    • 131. Ann S.  |  January 9, 2011 at 3:41 pm

      I hadn’t heard he was banned. I actually think he shouldn’t be, even though he is so annoying. We shouldn’t ban people just for being annoying. The guy who was name-calling, though — fair game for banning, definitely.

      • 132. Kate  |  January 9, 2011 at 5:15 pm

        I don’t think he should be banned, either. Heck, he even agreed with something I said recently!

  • 133. Sarah  |  January 9, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    I just found out that one of my sister’s good friends was one of the staffers injured in this shooting. My sister lives in Tucson and originally thought her friend Pam, who was mentioned above in a blurb about the victims, was unharmed. But apparently she was shot twice and is doing well. Pam and her husband had babysat my niece & nephew Friday evening. Thank goodness she is recovering! But it will be a hard road ahead I am sure, with the emotional difficulty as well as the physical.

    This whole thing made me so angry before, but this puts a new level to it!! Something has to change!

    • 134. Ann S.  |  January 9, 2011 at 7:27 pm

      Sarah: our best wishes are with your friend Pam.

    • 135. Ronnie  |  January 10, 2011 at 10:41 am

      Oh…thankfully she is doing well…I also hope for a safe & swift recovery for your friend…..<3…Ronnie

  • 136. truthspew  |  January 9, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    This shooting and killing spree is just a grab bag for the destruction of Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and the rest of the talking heads as well as the Tea Bagger movement and I dare say the Republican party.

    It’s all intertwined and interlinked in this tragedy.

    • 137. Carpool Cookie  |  January 10, 2011 at 9:58 am

      But that would require them to follow an argument to a logical conclussion, something they haven’t proven themselves adept at in the past.

      I mean that seriously, not as a broadside swipe. They are quite out of touch.

  • 138. Ronnie  |  January 10, 2011 at 8:46 am

    CNN Interviews Daniel Hernandez, the openly gay intern who helped Congresswoman Gabreille Giffords survive in all the chaos…..

    He doesn’t agree with everyone calling him a hero…oh, but you are Mr. Hernandez, you are…thank you for your actions put fourth by your kind & obviously humble heart….<3…Ronnie

    • 139. Lesbians Love Boies  |  January 10, 2011 at 9:26 am

      He is truly a hero! Gabby most likely wouldn’t have survived without him – GB Daniel!

      • 140. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  January 10, 2011 at 9:50 am

        I really loved how articulate Daniel presented himself, presenting a positive image of Gay/Hispanic persons…I see why Gabby chose him : ) I hope his face and story is played EVERYWHERE.

        • 141. Tomato  |  January 10, 2011 at 2:26 pm

          Can we please take note that in gunsighted “REAL America” Arizona, a Jewish woman was shot by a man with inadequate health care and her life was saved by a gay Latino young man?

  • 142. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  January 10, 2011 at 9:47 am

    sorry if this is a dup:

  • 143. Ronnie  |  January 11, 2011 at 8:53 am

    Rachel Maddow speaks with Daniel Hernandez……<3….Ronnie:

    • 144. Ann S.  |  January 11, 2011 at 10:27 am

      Thank you, that was very moving.

      • 145. Ronnie  |  January 11, 2011 at 11:32 am

        You’re welcome….<3…Ronnie


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