NOM: So far (off), so (hostile to a public) good

February 21, 2011 at 11:00 am 89 comments

Cross-posted at Good As You

By Jeremy Hooper

In an odd weekend blog post, the National Organization For Marriage purported to sum up marriage equality supporters (i.e. their opposition/target) by citing this quote for the 1995 French film Le Haine:

“It’s about a society on its way down, and as it falls, it keeps telling itself, ‘So far so good… so far so good… so far so good.’ It’s not how you fall that matters. It’s how you land.”

“So Far, So Good!” [NOM Blog]

Right. Okay. So once again we see NOMmers trying to flip the narrative. The ring finger-focused organization’s new strategy involves seizing the historical inevitability claims that equality supporters have long (and accurately) attached to the principled cause of civil fairness, in hopes of convincing their own supporters that marriage bias is actually what fits within a “winning the future” meme. Basically, NOM is saying that those of us who claim marriage equality as a benign good with no demonstrable harms are actually just biding time before our inevitable crash landing. They are suggesting that our constitutionally-entrenched pushes are shallow and empty, with their code word-laden “protect marriage” rhetoric the ultimate prevailer. The NOM crowd is essentially pre-screening future civil rights documentaries for their invited audiences, pushing their own fight into the smoothly scored, brightly lit parts of the film. All of it, of course, at the expense of the equality side, whose proponents they’ve monolithically cast into antagonistic roles.

They’ve beaten us with flawed messaging before every time. But even through an objective lens, I see this tactic as totally risky for the House of Gallagher/Brown. Because as stated in regards to NOM’s Jennifer Roback Morse own history lesson: The opposition’s claims of historical inevitability are steeped in implied pain for any families that feature at least one gay member. Whereas our (accurate) suggestion that polls are changing and that our arguments are the winning ones merely envision a future where “culture wars” disappear and equal protection finally gets its due time in the spotlight, the anti-equality movement’s desired destiny is entrenched in more/greater denial. Denial of the role that LGBT people play within reality’s spectrum. Denial of the rights due to all citizens. Denial of gay families’ worth. Denial of the basic idea that LGBT people deserve to “win” this thing, since we are the ones being injured — injuries whose remedies would come at no one’s undue expense.

Entry filed under: NOM Exposed, Right-wing.

Was Prop 8 Harmless? This Week in Prop 8 for Feb 22 Montana-style federalism, or lack thereof

89 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Ed Cortes  |  February 21, 2011 at 11:01 am


    • 2. Ann S.  |  February 21, 2011 at 11:09 am


      • 3. Kathleen  |  February 21, 2011 at 11:22 am

        and again

        • 4. Ronnie  |  February 21, 2011 at 1:11 pm


          • 5. JonT  |  February 21, 2011 at 2:34 pm

  • 6. Michelle Evans  |  February 21, 2011 at 11:22 am

    The more I see of the uprisings in various countries in the Middle East, the more I find myself envious in many ways of what they are doing–and wish something similar would happen right here with regard to LGBT rights.

    These people are saying that they are tired of being repressed and having the government sanction and instigate violence against them just for speaking out. To me, those arguments sound very familiar to what we experience every day here.

    In Libya, the government even went so far yesterday as to tell the protesters that if they went home and stopped their protesting, that THEN the government would allow some reforms to take place! How familiar this is here, where we are constantly told we just need to bide our time and be peaceful. Allow the government to take their time–all the time in the world it seems–while we sit back and are denied our rights each and every day. We win in court time after time, and yet we still are denied justice and equality while they twiddle their thumbs and wring their hands; while our president “struggles” with the idea of equality for all.

    Like those who want their freedom overseas–I also want my freedom, my rights, my life–NOW!

    • 7. Bob  |  February 21, 2011 at 11:46 am

      Michelle, I love your post, it echo’s my sentiments,,, I’ve said it before, but that fear of uprising,, needs to be brought home so it’s pallpable to the Obama administration,,, and the republicans need to feel it, it’s projection for the U.S. to be standing up for human rights in other countries when they don’t experience it themselves….

      the closest thing to it, and I love to watch is the stand off in Wisconsin,,,, hope the unions are able to stay the course,,,,, wish we could join human rights to labour righs, and have some added power,,,, one big uprising.

    • 8. karen in kalifornia  |  February 22, 2011 at 10:47 am

      Micelle, unfortunately there aren’t enough gay people (let alone gay people who feel oppressed) nor straight allies (present posters nothwithstanding) to hit a critical mass of demonstration.
      Let me know where to show up though and I’ll be there.

  • 9. AJ  |  February 21, 2011 at 11:24 am

    In case they delete it, my reply-to-a-reply:

    Don, you refer to “logic”, but you equate marriage equality with 12 year olds getting married — how is that logical? That’s in line with saying “well, incidences of abuse in this church are at a record level, so we should close all churches” — we can’t identify which churches will abuse, we don’t know the true extent, so can we, as a society, accept such a large risk?

    We do because we have faith that the better part of religious america will prevail.

    Anti-gay activists talk sweepingly about faith, but they’re unwilling to have faith in the union of two people who say they are in love. It’s always this attempt at ferreting out ill-intent where there isn’t any. This faithless and breathless invocation of a gay demimonde that is attempting to destroy everything you have assumes far too much to be practical or logical. It assumes that our interest is your life, it assumes many of us are interested in upsetting something you have.

    The same fearful terror that fills you with dread when you hear about decapitations and murders of christians in other locales is the same terror that fills many of us when we listen to calls for our death here, when we’re assaulted, murdered or our homes destroyed. It’s the same sorrow we feel when religious organizations say we don’t need marriage because we can just get power of attorney, but then we watch legislators in Utah attempt to outright ban that ability, fearfully imagining a world where the last we see of the love of our life is a speeding ambulance, stopped at the hospital waiting room and locked out of funerals.

    The faith you demand of us to believe you do this in the best interest of society is the same faith that’s lacking when you insist we’re seeking equality to destroy society.

    • 10. Michelle Evans  |  February 21, 2011 at 11:38 am

      AJ, Well said and very moving. Thanks.

    • 11. Peterplumber  |  February 21, 2011 at 6:15 pm

      I had posted a comment there also, but of course, the post never made it to the public light. So, just for the record, here is what I said,
      “First, the main article was referring to a MOVIE. It is rather ineffectual to base real life on any movie.

      2nd, the main article If a one line statement can be called an article) states that SSM won’t hurt anyone. That should have stated “hasn’t hurt anyone” because there are thousands of married same sex couples in America today.

      3rd, Don said something about how God created Men & Women. I want to ask Don, or anyone who believes that Earth and all life on Earth was created as the Biblical story states:
      Where do the Dinosaurs fit into God’s plan? We know that Man did not exist at the time of the Dinosaurs. So, did God come in and usurp the Earth, kill off most of the life that existed at that time so He could place Mankind here? Just wondering…

      4th, everyone knows that it takes male AND female to procreate. There are only a few species of life on Earth that are hermaphroditic. BUT, there are so many breeders on Earth in the 21st century that the Earth is becoming overpopulated and is getting to a point where the Earth cannot support the population. Perhaps God created homosexuals to cut down on the surplus population. Did you ever think about THAT??”

      • 12. Michelle Evans  |  February 21, 2011 at 6:32 pm

        Ah, you asked the “dinosaur” question. Maybe I can say something about this, since I’ve run across it too many times, not just in relation to dinosaurs, but to trans people such as myself as well.

        Dinosaurs, along with LGBT people, were put here by god (according to some fundamentalist people), for the sole purpose of testing their faith in god!

        In other words, dinosaurs did not actually roam the Earth, but instead, their fossils were inserted into the ground inside layers of sediment that makes it appear their demise happened tens of millions of years ago. Whereas in the “reality” of their beliefs, god is trying to fake them out with all this actual scientific evidence in order to make sure that dinosaurs are rejected because the bible says they could not have existed. If they start to believe the evidence god “created” about dinosaurs, then they must not be true believers, and are then not worthy.

        The exact same argument is sometimes used on LGBT people (I know because a childhood friend of Cherie’s did exactly this when it came to a discussion of me). We are placed here by god for the sole reason that we are to be rejected by people of “true” faith. We are their test of faith in the supposed scriptures that speak of us as abominations. We have no other purpose in existing, according to these cretins.

        • 13. Peterplumber  |  February 21, 2011 at 6:35 pm

          WOW, I had never heard that one before. And just where do the fundies get this bit of information??? Was it hidden in some scripture that you can only read if you are of true faith??

          • 14. Michelle Evans  |  February 21, 2011 at 7:45 pm

            Like most everything else, they just make it up. They will say that it is directly from the bible, but it is obviously their interpretation, by reading between the lines. In other words, god said exactly what is in the bible, so ONLY what is in the bible must be real and believed. Since dinosaurs are not written about in the bible, then they obviously are not part of god’s plan, and must be a hidden test of their faith. At least that’s how their convoluted thinking makes that connection.

            People such as Brian and Maggie, and all the rest of those who work so actively against us, may not come out directly and state this test as a reason they are so adamantly anti-LGBT, but it does tend to explain some some of the basis for their actions.

            Of course, the small fact that they also earn tons of money by doing this is also a good incentive for their continued hatred of those they choose not to understand.

          • 15. JonT  |  February 21, 2011 at 8:46 pm

            Oh, I’ve heard this theme many times. Apparently the god these people worship like to trick their followers with endless ‘tests’ of their faith. And here I thought that ‘satan’ was supposed to be the trickster. Whatever.

            I’ve also heard that being gay is in itself a test to see if we can ‘resist temptation’. Blah Blah Blah. It’s all so convenient.

            WOW, I had never heard that one before. And just where do the fundies get this bit of information???

            They don’t get this information from anywhere — it’s all a part of the mindset: When you run across facts that do not fit your worldview, simply rationalize them away with mythology and ‘faith’

          • 16. Sheryl Carver  |  February 22, 2011 at 7:39 am

            I wonder what these fundies would think of parents (Good, Xtian, OS Parents!) with ONLY their own biological children, who planted false evidence around their homes that showed their children were actually adopted. When the children find such things, these Good Parents say, “no, you are our biological offspring.” The kids reply, “but, what about these papers that say we’re adopted?” And the Good Parents, “are you going to believe us, or those papers? It’s a test of faith in us.”

            Mental/emotional abuse, anyone? But if “God” does it, it’s OK?

            I just realized that some of the loser forms of fundies would probably think the above scenario is just fine. Sigh.

          • 17. Sheryl Carver  |  February 22, 2011 at 7:40 am

            That was supposed to be “lower” not “loser” above, but I guess both words work.

            I still want an edit function!

      • 18. Paul in Minneapolis  |  February 21, 2011 at 7:30 pm

        I seem to recall a study from many years ago that correlated the incidence of homosexuality with high density of population — so there is some evidence that homosexuals are indeed here to cut down on the surplus population!

      • 19. Carpool Cookie  |  February 22, 2011 at 10:24 am

        “I want to ask Don, or anyone who believes that Earth and all life on Earth was created as the Biblical story states: Where do the Dinosaurs fit into God’s plan?”

        We also must ask, Where did all the unicorns from the Bible go?

        • 20. fiona64  |  February 22, 2011 at 11:29 am

          The Irish Rovers appear to know the answer …

          • 21. Ed Cortes  |  February 22, 2011 at 11:52 am

            WOW – THAT was a flashback!

    • 22. Sheryl, Mormon Mother of a wonderful son who just happens to be gay  |  February 21, 2011 at 8:49 pm

      Wow, that was so well said.

      Sheryl, Mormon Mother

  • 23. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 21, 2011 at 11:37 am

    I want to bring your attention to this article, “On Gay Rights, Should Conservative Christians Keep Fighting or Adapt?”

    The final paragraph:

    Fighting to the end might sound gallant, but it’s not a road to glory so much as a ticket to infamy — an infamy akin to that borne by the likes of Bull Connor, George Wallace and other villains of civil rights history. Is that any hill for Christians to die on?

    I think there are really two tipping points here. First, when will pushing an anti-LGBT agenda cease to be profitable? I fear this is a long way off. Some have noted that pro-life groups continue to operate long after Roe v. Wade, but I think this is not an apt comparison; there is not a shift in public opinion on abortion that mirrors the striking shift toward LGBT equality. Still, try to picture legal same-sex marriage in Mississippi….

    Second, when will pushing an anti-LGBT agenda be politically unpopular? This should definitely arrive first; look at shifting opinions in state legislatures, particularly in public speeches and statements. I predict a phase following this point where groups like Focus on the Family will play the victim in an effort to squeeze out their last significant funds.

    But perhaps when the current crop of young Christians comes to power and influence, it will change the sociopolitical landscape faster than we might expect from our current vantage point. Time will tell….

    • 24. Michelle Evans  |  February 21, 2011 at 11:43 am

      You mention about how the younger generation will hopefully usurp the older as far as being tolerant of all our lives and all our rights.

      What I still find unbelievable is that most of the current generation of lawmakers, who are fighting against our equality, are those who were raised during the tumultuous 1960s. This was a time where we supposedly learned to love everyone, and live and let live, peace to all, etc, etc. WTF happened to these people to turn them so radically in the exact opposite direction to what their own preachings of youth brought to our world?

      • 25. DaveP  |  February 21, 2011 at 12:14 pm

        There were plenty of up-tight, close-minded bigoted kids in the 60s. Now they are just older.

        • 26. Ed Cortes  |  February 21, 2011 at 12:31 pm

          and…in congress

        • 27. Carpool Cookie  |  February 21, 2011 at 12:41 pm

          I agree it’s shocking some people still support suppression, but Yes….there were TONS of families that resisted the Civil Rights Movement, and undoubtedly they passed it down to their kids. Look at those pictures of the screaming masses as that little black girl enters a public school.

        • 28. Michelle Evans  |  February 21, 2011 at 4:25 pm

          Why did it have to be the bigots that got elected, instead of the hippies!

          • 29. Kate  |  February 21, 2011 at 4:32 pm

            ‘cuz we’re all still out here in the sticks with our chickens.

            Hippie Kate

        • 30. Peterplumber  |  February 21, 2011 at 6:39 pm

          A wide man once wrote,

          The snake that cannot cast its skin perishes. So too with those minds which are prevented from changing their views: they cease to be minds.

          • 31. Peterplumber  |  February 21, 2011 at 6:40 pm

            and he was very WISE, too…..

  • 32. JPM  |  February 21, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    The latest from Bryan Fisher

    USA Today wants to know if pro-family groups will fight to defend natural marriage “to the last ditch,” and if they believe this is a “hill…to die on.”

    The answer to both questions is the same: unambiguously, unequivocally, unwaveringly, yes.

    The USA Today op-ed argues that this particular battle has been lost for good, and that pro-marriage groups ought to just wake up and smell the napalm.

    That’s something we cannot do. And I would suggest that the demise of natural marriage has been greatly exaggerated. The Indiana House voted just last week 70-26 to amend its state constitution not only to protect natural marriage as the union of one man and one woman, but to prohibit the recognition of marriage counterfeits.

    This battle is not over, not by a long shot, and will not ever be as long as we defenders of natural marriage have breath left in our bodies.

    We will fight to the last ditch, to the last barricade, on the last hill, to defend the institution that is the cornerstone of a healthy society. We will resist to the last ditch, the last barricade, the last hill, the effort to normalize sexual deviancy in our culture.

    To borrow a phrase from John Paul Jones, “We have yet begun to fight.”

    Get used to it. We’re not going anywhere.

    • 33. Kathleen  |  February 21, 2011 at 12:21 pm

      I hope everyone notes the shift in language in Fisher’s piece. Never once does the USA Today article refer to “natural marriage.” That’s a phrase made up by Fisher and his allies to manipulate people into viewing same sex relationships as being unnatural. Bigotry on display.

      • 34. Steve  |  February 21, 2011 at 12:28 pm

        There is nothing natural about marriage, let alone monogamy. The reason that so many marriages and relationships fail is because it’s more natural for people to form short-term attachments and then move on. From a purely biological point of view, a few years is enough to have children and provide for them during the time they are most vulnerable. Then it’s more beneficial for the species to leave and do it again with someone else. There are some animals that form life-long pairings, but it’s rare.

      • 35. JonT  |  February 21, 2011 at 2:56 pm


        Also, he kind of gives himself and his poorly hidden hatred away by referring to marriage equality as ‘normaliz[ing] sexual deviancy‘.

        People like him whose hate runs so deep will never stop hating — they will just sink into irrelevancy, like the KKK and other haters in society.

        Get used to it. We’re not going anywhere.

        Yes you are fischer. You are heading for the irrelevancy of History’s dustbin. Bring some warm clothes.

        • 36. Paul in Minneapolis  |  February 21, 2011 at 3:41 pm

          I always hate it when people talk about gay sex as being “a behavior” but seemingly fail to realize that straight sex would also be “a behavior.”

          I hate it even more when they want to discriminate based on “gay behavior” but have no problem with special privileges for “straight behavior!”

          • 37. Rhie  |  February 21, 2011 at 8:35 pm

            Considering that with the one obvious exception gay sex and straight sex -are the same behaviors- it really is just ridiculous.

            I agree. I hate how it’s OMG AWFUL AND EVIL AND REPULSIVE for a gay couple to, say, kiss while in line for food at a baseball game but the same or more explicit behavior from a non-gay couple is just fine.

          • 38. JonT  |  February 21, 2011 at 8:52 pm

            …with the one obvious exception gay sex and straight sex -are the same behaviors-…

            Sorry Rhie – I can’t think of one sex act that gay people do that straight people do not… Maybe I misunderstood this sentence…?

          • 39. fiona64  |  February 22, 2011 at 6:31 am

            Heh. Rhie, I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve brought that up, always in response to “they’re shoving it in our faces.” How is an engagement party for a straight couple not “shoving it in our faces”? Or a straight couple kissing in public? Or holding hands?

            Attention, bigots whom I know to be reading (Hi, Louis!): Unless you are also objecting every single time a straight couple does something that you get mad at a gay couple for doing? You are indeed a bigot … and a hypocrite.


          • 40. Rhie  |  February 24, 2011 at 9:14 pm

            JonT — that’s exactly what I said, heh. ‘Gay sex and straight sex are the same behaviors’ means that there is no difference between the two. the — was for emphasis.

      • 41. AB  |  February 21, 2011 at 5:11 pm

        Hey Kathleen, did you get that brief?

    • 42. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 21, 2011 at 1:03 pm

      I’m so going to enjoy watching his response to each successive victory for our side over the years.

      His response doesn’t surprise me – what’s he going to say at this point in time, when discrimination is still the policy is most states? “You’re right, we’re going to lose but we’re going to fight on regardless?”

    • 43. JoeRH  |  February 21, 2011 at 1:57 pm

      Where’s the mention of the 40%-50% of marriages ending in divorce? Gay marriage is the REAL enemy? You people are so f-ing dumb it’d be laughable if it didn’t affect my life. The only reason Indiana passed that bill is because of the republican majority. Their base values anti-gay sentiments, so they must follow suit. It doesn’t mean what they did was right. It just goes to show how far behind we are in terms of intellectual growth.

      I firmly believe that the public votes against SSM are solely due to the feeling behind your vote: either love or hate. When you strike fear in someone, they will go out of their way to “save” themself. If the “threat” is recognized as a bunch of BS by people (people with brains), the desire to vote against the fear isn’t as strong. People need to vote no matter what. I think that if they did, gay marriage wouldn’t have been banned so many times.

    • 44. Michelle Evans  |  February 21, 2011 at 4:30 pm

      His choice of words is really bizarre in that it echoes what Quadaffi put out yesterday in Libya, saying something close to: “We will fight to the last man, the last woman, the last bullet.” Guess Fisher would feel right at home with this washed up dictator–and the rest of those currently going bye-bye.

      I still say we need a similar uprising here in America. We’ve had enough of being treated like the trash, and as supposed citizens, but without all our rights.

    • 45. Rev. Will Fisher  |  February 21, 2011 at 5:07 pm

      I’m not related to him!

      • 46. Richard A. Jernigan  |  February 21, 2011 at 5:55 pm

        We know! You are much too Christian, where he is so much the polar opposite that he is scary!

    • 47. Carpool Cookie  |  February 22, 2011 at 10:30 am

      Taken as it is, “We have yet begun to fight” sounds a bit onimous.

      But I think he meant ,“We have yet begun to fight (for our jobs)”.

  • 48. George  |  February 21, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Let’s hear it for Wells Fargo, Coca-Cola, Campbell Soup and Walt Disney!!

    More companies covering transgender surgery

    • 49. Carpool Cookie  |  February 22, 2011 at 9:58 pm


  • 50. Rhie  |  February 21, 2011 at 1:02 pm


  • 51. Bob Barnes  |  February 21, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    OT, but worth it.

    So NOM posts about an WaPo Opinion piece by Robert Nelson of Gaithersburg, MD, titled, “Who’s demonizing who?” [ ] They pasted in the entire piece but purposely omit the link.

    The article is one thing, the comment area is the real show, do, go see:

    • 52. Kate  |  February 21, 2011 at 3:23 pm

      Leave it to NOM. It should be “whom.”

    • 53. Sheryl Carver  |  February 21, 2011 at 4:41 pm

      Are these people REALLY so delusional that they REALLY believe that they are the victims??? I don’t know which is scarier:
      a) that they truly believe that being accurately called bigots is somehow as bad or worse than being beaten, killed, having your home burned to the ground, fired from your job, denied access to your loved one in the hospital, etc, etc, etc.
      b) that the ends justify the means, as long as the targets are LGBT folks (& their children, who are apparently acceptable collateral damage)

      I truly don’t know how these people sleep at night. If there is a god/goddess/whatever, they should be very, very afraid of facing his/her/its judgement.

  • 54. Richard A. Jernigan  |  February 21, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    And once again, we see the disconnect between NOM and the truth.

  • 55. JoeRH  |  February 21, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Well, hopefully that stupid bitch will be dead before she even sees how her premonitions were completely bogus and delusional. I like that she glazes over divorce, like “oh that’s a whole other issue. It’s the real enemy of marriage, but I’d rather focus on a minority in the name of God and my own discomfort.”

    Then there are the asinine examples to “back up” her BS: 1) Parents lose their right to EFFECTIVELY LIE to their children about homosexuality, 2) Foster parents in the UK are IN THE UK! We don’t have equal laws to them (moron), 3) Adoption agencies being put out of business? You mean that church that electively CHOSE to no longer provide an adoption service based on their baseless prejudice?, 4) Why the hell would a couple want to stay in separate bedrooms while staying at a bed and breakfast together? Is she even familiar with human emotion? You tell me that I can’t share a room with my partner? YOU tell ME??, 5) The wedding photographer thing, if it is true (considering the source), is a little ridiculous. However the rest of her examples just prove that that woman is completely without a soul and a conscience.

    Why are people on the civil rights side always the ones to be assassinated? Someone needs to take this bitch out! I’d throw a party!

    • 56. Richard A. Jernigan  |  February 21, 2011 at 1:35 pm

      As far as the photographer, it is NOT true, and apparently, Maggie and her group refuse to acknowledge that there are many photographers who are being discriminated against because they CANNOT currently offer their services for our weddings. And these photographers are straight as well as LGBT! I wonder how long Mags has been without her meds?

      • 57. Ed Cortes  |  February 21, 2011 at 1:45 pm

        Far TOO long!

      • 58. JoeRH  |  February 21, 2011 at 2:00 pm

        Well this Morse woman is even worse. Maggie talks ignorantly about her “fight” but this twat is actually insulting and demeaning gay people. It’s one thing to say that straight marriage is important, and another to say that if you are gay, you cause nothing by trouble for society and children and that you yourself are wrong. God I wish I could spit in her face.

        • 59. Richard A. Jernigan  |  February 21, 2011 at 2:14 pm

          I wouldn’t want to contaminate my saliva by having it come into contact with her. And they also refuse to admit that their words and actions lead to the very societal downfall that they want to blame us for!

    • 60. Ray in MA  |  February 21, 2011 at 2:43 pm

      I like you already, Joe…

      But, “bogus and delusional” … “stupid bitch ” …”a twat” …

      you are being too kind to Maggie.

    • 61. fiona64  |  February 21, 2011 at 3:20 pm

      The photographer thing is true … the person was found to be in violation of the Unruh Act, which says, in a nutshell, that if you hang your shingle out to offer services to the public, you cannot discriminate.

      If that photographer only wants to take pictures of “Christian” weddings, s/he needs to stop doing it professionally and just advertise in his or her church bulletin.


    • 62. JonT  |  February 21, 2011 at 3:23 pm

      You mean that church that electively CHOSE to no longer provide an adoption service based on their baseless prejudice?

      Well the main reason they chose this is that they would no longer be allowed to discriminate while accepting taxpayer money. They were given a choice:

      1. Stop discriminating.


      2. Continue to discriminate, but give up all that tax payer money you like so much.

      Of course they chose to just stop helping kids get a decent home at all. So much for their ‘christian’ love.

      • 63. Ray in MA  |  February 21, 2011 at 4:25 pm

        OK everyone, … recall American history…the diner’s in the south USA would not serve black people… separate bathroms for black and white… separate schools.

        They’ve all been outlawed by civil rights legislation.

        Recall this when you hear how photographers and B&B’s will not serve GLBT folk.

        Go back and read American/Black history. Substitue GLBT for BLACK and there you have it. Echoes from the past within Life in 2011.

        Feel free to correct me.

  • 64. Ed  |  February 21, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    Ok…this is OT, but I have to vent.
    Last night, i was serving 4 ladies (Logans Roadhouse). One of them was in transition from male to female. (Michelle, I mean absolutely no disrespect.) Anyway, They proceeded to make it obvious to tables around them that this male was a female (Vickie…I know, because i carded them all, since they were sitting in the bar area, and Vickie’s ID said she was a male). I really was unsure of how to react to it all, yet I tried to be as professional as I could. After they paid their bill (105 bucks), they tipped me just 3 dollars.

    2nd part of rant….We, as a community, need to go on the offensive. A Wyoming senator (I think) proposed to have signs posted right along the state lines saying that one’s civil unions or domestic partnerships would be null and void while traveling through the state. I think in every state where we are denied marriage equality, we should erect signs stating that our relationships are void while crossing whichever state. Once people understand ALL the negatives we endure, I hope they would embrace our fight. Who knows, Wishful thinking maybe? Maybe not.

    Rant is over…..Thoughts?


    • 65. Ed Cortes  |  February 21, 2011 at 2:49 pm

      That’s actually a good idea – it would let us know quickly which states to avoid! haha

    • 66. Ray in MA  |  February 21, 2011 at 3:04 pm

      Keep the signs simple:

      “Beware: You’re marriage / civil unioin / domestic partnership may not be considered legal or worthy in this state. Proceed at your own risk. For information dial 1 800 BIGOTS”

    • 67. fiona64  |  February 21, 2011 at 3:19 pm

      It was my experience, back in my food service days, that the loudest/most obnoxious/largest/messiest parties typically left the smallest tip.

      The day that I had an 8-topper plus high chair (on which they allowed the infant to smear a mixture of egg and catsup that hardened into a mess so bad that I had to have the tray run through the dishwasher to *soften* it enough to clean … and, of course, Baby-dear also had crackers to bang around so that there were crumbs in an 8-foot radius around the chair … no joke), they left me a dollar. Their bill was in excess of $100, and this was back in the early ’80s.

      I sent the hostess out to the parking lot with the $1 to return, with the message that the man who paid the bill clearly needed it more than I.


      Fiona (who cringes on behalf of the waitstaff whenever she sees a high chair in a restaurant because of this experience)

    • 68. Michelle Evans  |  February 21, 2011 at 4:39 pm

      Ed, Very sorry that a transgender person would do that to you, let alone that anyone would. Unfortunately, there are bad people in all walks and sides of life, and trans is no exception. I know too many myself.

      When I am in a public situation, I try to understand that since I stand out due to who I am, that people are going to react differently to me, and that they also tend to remember me. That means I go out of my way to do what is right, so that hopefully people will equate being trans with good, instead of something like the incident that you describe.

      For anyone who would already possess anti-trans bias, all these people did was reinforce that their bigotry is justified. That doesn’t help any LGBT person. Wish I’d been there to say something.

      • 69. Kate  |  February 21, 2011 at 4:46 pm

        Beautifly said, Michelle.

        • 70. Kate  |  February 21, 2011 at 5:17 pm

          Beautifully. Damned itouch.

  • 71. Sagesse  |  February 21, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    And the spin goes on.

  • 72. Ronnie  |  February 21, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    Here is a video…….enough said……well said……..<3…Ronnie:

    • 73. Sheryl Carver  |  February 22, 2011 at 7:58 am

      I am NOT advocating illegal hijacking of URLs, but wouldn’t it be nice if everyone who tried to access the NOM site first had to watch this video?

      Realistically, I know it wouldn’t make much difference, as one cannot force another to think anymore than one can legislate another into believing religious doctrine. Still, it made a nice little morning fantasy.

      • 74. Ronnie  |  February 23, 2011 at 5:23 pm

        That would be AWESOME!!!!!!!…lol….<3…Ronnie

  • 75. Peterplumber  |  February 21, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    So, speaking of the NOMblog, I was over there snooping around and I noticed they had a link to stories occuring in the UK. I was wondering if NOM was trying to interfere over there too, but what I thought I would bring to the attention of the P8TT folks is this comment:

    1. Mike Brooks
    Posted February 15, 2011 at 2:21 pm | Permalink
    Wanna see intolerance? Post on the Prop8trialtracker board. Most hate-filled blog you’ll ever witness.

    All I have to say is, at least anything he says over here will get posted. Nothing I say over gets posted.

    • 76. Ronnie  |  February 21, 2011 at 8:46 pm

      (rolls eyes) ….. 8 / …Ronnie

    • 77. JonT  |  February 21, 2011 at 8:50 pm

      Wanna see intolerance? Post on the Prop8trialtracker board. Most hate-filled blog you’ll ever witness.

      Haha. That’s funny. Obviously this ‘guy’ doesn’t actually read this blog, and ignores the obvious hatred in their own.

    • 78. Sheryl, Mormon Mother of a wonderful son who just happens to be gay  |  February 21, 2011 at 9:30 pm

      Let’s see, did we have a Mike as a troll? Or did he post here under another name?

      Maybe if enough people actually come over here and read, they might learn something.

      Sheryl, Mormon Mother

      • 79. Ed Cortes  |  February 22, 2011 at 6:21 am

        Sheryl, from what we have seen, if they are about to learn something, they just disappear! I guess learning is aslo against their belief.

      • 80. fiona64  |  February 22, 2011 at 11:28 am

        Who was that Michael dude who kept pretending he was a lawyer? I’ll bet it’s him …


        • 81. Lesbians Love Boies  |  February 22, 2011 at 11:29 am

          Yes, the realtor.

          • 82. fiona64  |  February 22, 2011 at 11:30 am

            The very one.


        • 83. Richard A. Jernigan  |  February 22, 2011 at 11:32 am

          You mean Mr. Ejercito? The one who could not even do a proper copy and paste that included citations?

    • 84. Straight Ally #3008  |  February 21, 2011 at 9:32 pm


    • 85. Michelle Evans  |  February 21, 2011 at 11:31 pm

      Maybe because of what he said, people will migrate over to the P8TT, and maybe they’ll have a chance to find out for themselves just how “hate-filled” we really are. Might make some converts of people willing to at least listen to what’s really going on.

      I recall seeing a reply to a story on One News Now a long time ago (when they still allowed people to actually reply!). They guy said he was a very devout Christian and had always believed that being LGBT was against the teachings of his religion. But then he read all the hateful things being said on ONN, and said it really woke him up to the bigotry being perpetrated in the name of religion.

      Would love to have shaken that guy’s hand and welcome him to the side of the light.

  • 86. Sheryl, Mormon Mother of a wonderful son who just happens to be gay  |  February 21, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    checking in.

    • 88. Richard A. Jernigan  |  February 22, 2011 at 7:01 am

      Yes, and we all know how this will be spun on the NOM blog and the other blogs of the same ilk. They will claim that health care practitioners will now be discriminated against, and possibly even sued, because of their religious beliefs. They will not see this as an end to discrimination, but rather a new form of it.

      • 89. AnonyGrl  |  February 22, 2011 at 12:11 pm

        They don’t seem to understand that unless the health care practitioner is a FAITH HEALER working in a church, then they don’t have the right to offer services to some while denying others. Its a fairly simple concept… but one that the right has trouble grasping.

        I kind of wish I could, for a bit, and as an example, run a supermarket and ask people at the door “What is your view on same sex marriage?” then exclude everyone who is against it, or, if they insist on coming in, charge them double. Wonder how long THAT would stand before the right would scream their heads off?


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